Seems I'm screwed!

[JesterPhotog]

This came today regarding my email to the Chief of Police HBPD.

"As you already know, the City of Huntington Beach does not currently have a municipal code prohibiting the flight of UAS aircraft in the city limits. We are deferring to the rules and regulations set by the FAA. Residents will probably continue to call us either way and we will respond to confirm FAA compliance if we do respond. I am sure the City Attorney will re-draft the ordinance in the near future and give us all clear guidelines to UAS operations.

BOOM!!!!!! there you go. That's great news.

 

[Guest72779]

I would interested in seeing any Municipal code that states flying in public airspace is against a city ordinance. I'm not doubting what you heard, but if a cop is going to cite you for doing something, it might be worth your time to not listen to some model airplane pilot but to go to the city or police department and ask.

That would be the equivalent of a city telling a news helicopter it can not fly above any part of the city. As long as you are abiding by the rules of the FAA who have jurisdiction of the airways (the city doesn't, i'm pretty sure) then I think you should be ok and I would challenge any city ordinance.

I might open a new thread on this topic. don't mean to hijack your efforts in finding a place to fly. If its just for fun and not commercial. Call the local airports, tell them you are flying at the Joe Smith Park and you will be under 400ft. and be done with it.

I assume you have read thru the entire thread. I have contacted HBPD. Basically I was told to go to a particular park in an adjacent city. Where your not seeing the problem is our city and many others are citing landing and take off from city land, i.e parks beaches etc. as the means to harass us. I suppose if I hand launch, first jumping as high as I can into the airspace than I would technically not be taking on from the ground - right ). I would prefer not to have to join the AMA and deal with the RC guys (been there, done that) just to be able to practice. I don't need the comradery. Every park I know of in my county is AMA (must be member) and in one case ( the Great Park ) must be club member also. Plus nearby Costa Mesa requires you to have city permit. Sorry to be blunt but it's reckless assholes who do stupid **** that make the rest of us look bad and make it nearly impossible to fly when or where we want. Anyone with half a Brain these days ought to realize your not going to win an argument with a cop, no matter how polite or smart you think you are. Also per 14 CFR PART 107 it's not simply a matter of calling up your local airport any longer. Notification has changed starting this past Monday October 3rd.

 

[JesterPhotog]

I assumed you did not have your Part 107 yet. If you do, of course you have to notify/get permission from FAA to fly in controlled airspace. But if you don't have your Part 107 you can fly within 5 miles as long as you contact the airport. I haven't seen any announcement from FAA in regards to reporting requirements changing on Oct. 3. Are you able to cite for me?

 

[Guest72779]

I assumed you did not have your Part 107 yet. If you do, of course you have to notify/get permission from FAA to fly in controlled airspace. But if you don't have your Part 107 you can fly within 5 miles as long as you contact the airport. I haven't seen any announcement from FAA in regards to reporting requirements changing on Oct. 3. Are you able to cite for me?

As of October 3rd you have to use the FAA online portal for all requests of waiver and authorizations. It was mentioned in the 3 hour plus webinar by the FAA's Kevin Morris. Link elsewhere in this thread. Trust me when I say I understand 107. Most here are not getting my point

 

[JesterPhotog]

As of October 3rd you have to use the FAA online portal for all requests of waiver and authorizations. It was mentioned in the 3 hour plus webinar by the FAA's Kevin Morris. Link elsewhere in this thread. Trust me when I say I understand 107. Most here are not getting my point

We might not be getting your point because it is a bit vague. Are you Part 107? If you are not, then you do not need to go to the FAA to ask for permission to fly via their online portal. Period Dot. Go to the park and fly your UAV after you tell the surrounding airports where you will be. If the cops come by to harass you they have no jurisdiction. FAA controls the airspace, not the city. As you heard from the city council meeting video. HBPD have no municipal codes prohibiting the flight or even the take off and landing of your UAV. (and a side note, if you are worried about them not allowing you to "take off" from a public place, like a park or the beach. Then take off from private property. like the house across the street from the park. or the Carl's Jr. parking lot near the beach.

If you are Part 107 then you need to use the portal if you will be in controlled airspace. Have you checked to see if the park you want to fly at is within controlled airspace? If so, then follow the rules and get permission. It sucks to live in a city with controlled airspace.

 

[Guest72779]

LOL....
I'm studying for part 107. Planning to start a business when I retire next October 2017. Unless the entire airspace has been shut down to UAS by then. May have A shinny new Phantom 4 plus accessories for sale soon. Don't know where you live, but here in nanny Orange County California most parks are in high density housing areas. Usually integrated with elementary schools. Surely you have seen other posts in this forum mentioning the mess here in HB. Get three feet of the ground and your sure to get a visit from a cop who has no clue about FAA rules or the city stance on UAS. Per the Chiefs presentation a lot of peeps fly at Central Park within ear shot of the PD heliport. Hence their sensitivity lately to UAS ops. Did you hear the mention in the vid regarding 300 foot horizontal notice. That will make flying so much easier... NOT. Also what I haven't mentioned is I've been hassled several times already. Guess I look like trouble. SoCalDude has pointed me to a couple places within the city where he hasn't had a problem... YET! Which I will check out when I get a chance. As to my local, I'm inside the 5 mile radius for KSNA. But my park at the end of my street is surrounded by homes and paranoid residents. Plus I've talked with KSNA ops. "Don't bother us, contact FAA" and that response was for notification of a recreational flight. Perhaps I got a guy having a bad day. Go figure! Given your handle here I assume your doing commercial UAS work?

 

[SoCalDude]

@Timothy, here is another one I shot this evening in HB...

 

[JWH]

Some of the non-tower airports have a unicom operator someplace near the field that talks to the planes. How you get a hold of them on the ground is another matter.

There is a non-tower airport at Kernville near Lake Isabella, but the radio is run by the waitress. If she's busy, you won't get an answer on the radio or phone and they close around 2:30 PM too. Fox Field in Lancaster has a tower, but no one in it anymore but likely someone there runs the unicom radio but good luck finding out who. Sometimes there is an airport manager, but they are also hard to find.

And now some towers are telling people to "Contact the FAA as they're busy." Entire thing is sort of a mess.

Speaking as a private pilot, I can "legally" fly my airplane into a non towered PUBLIC airport without talking to anyone. Legal isn't always smart. I do call out on Unicom. I sometimes get a reply and sometimes I don't. I will continue inbound and land either way. I am new to the drone arena and plan to operate in the same manner. Of course with the drone, stay below pattern altitude and outside of the traffic pattern.

A towered airport is another thing. You definitely need to communicate with them no matter what.

The tower cannot turn you away and tell you to contact the F.A.A. They are the F.A.A.!

 

[FlyerFocus]

Federal Pre-emption. When a federal law is in conflict with a state or local law the federal law trumps.

Ham Radio (Amateur Radio) operators have long played this card when their homeowner association tells them that by erecting and antenna they are violating the HOA CC&Rs. FCC licensed station? You go ahead and put up your antenna.

73 DE KB6CCA

 

[Guest72779]

@Timothy, here is another one I shot this evening in HB...

Another nice video. What are you processing with.

 

[JesterPhotog]

LOL....
I'm studying for part 107. Planning to start a business when I retire next October 2017. Unless the entire airspace has been shut down to UAS by then. May have A shinny new Phantom 4 plus accessories for sale soon. Don't know where you live, but here in nanny Orange County California most parks are in high density housing areas. Usually integrated with elementary schools. Surely you have seen other posts in this forum mentioning the mess here in HB. Get three feet of the ground and your sure to get a visit from a cop who has no clue about FAA rules or the city stance on UAS. Per the Chiefs presentation a lot of peeps fly at Central Park within ear shot of the PD heliport. Hence their sensitivity lately to UAS ops. Did you hear the mention in the vid regarding 300 foot horizontal notice. That will make flying so much easier... NOT. Also what I haven't mentioned is I've been hassled several times already. Guess I look like trouble. SoCalDude has pointed me to a couple places within the city where he hasn't had a problem... YET! Which I will check out when I get a chance. As to my local, I'm inside the 5 mile radius for KSNA. But my park at the end of my street is surrounded by homes and paranoid residents. Plus I've talked with KSNA ops. "Don't bother us, contact FAA" and that response was for notification of a recreational flight. Perhaps I got a guy having a bad day. Go figure! Given your handle here I assume your doing commercial UAS work?

Oh, i can imagine you are hassled. I know about Whinny OC. I'm from SoCal. I can see how every paranoid entitled homeowner along the beach communities are deathly afraid of flying things. But right now it doesn't sound like there is a law against what you want to do. It's just a question if you want to challenge the "man". Good luck to you. If all the UAV/UAS operators back down to the local cities, we will start to lose our rights to fly. I did listen intently about the proposed muni codes they want to pass. Ridiculous. and I got the feeling that some of the council members saw it as ridiculous also. The one that mentioned looking over a wall of your neighbor and how that was different than using a UAV, was great. It is scary what the city wants to do. It's sad. Hopefully FAA would protect us flying anywhere that is safe. Over the beach.... pretty darn safe as long as you are not over a huge group of people. Heck you are over the water most the time. Safer than a RC model airplane park.
I would go about things differently, but that's because I have argued with cops before... and sued them... and won. (not related to UAV operations) So my personality is a tad different. I would go fly at the airpark and not get the "required" membership. How can they make you join a club. It's a public park correct? Not private property? It's definitely public airspace. And I am sure when you get your Part 107 you will have more training and knowledge than some of those model airplane pilots.

Timothy, I am on your side. I was just trying to get as much information from you and come up with solutions. Have a good time learning your P4. I see the biggest problem you will have down in HB is the **** SeaGulls. LOL

I am an aerial photographer. Usually do Air-to-Air photography/cinematography and starting to do more UAV work.

 

[Guest72779]

Oh, i can imagine you are hassled. I know about Whinny OC. I'm from SoCal. I can see how every paranoid entitled homeowner along the beach communities are deathly afraid of flying things. But right now it doesn't sound like there is a law against what you want to do. It's just a question if you want to challenge the "man". Good luck to you. If all the UAV/UAS operators back down to the local cities, we will start to lose our rights to fly. I did listen intently about the proposed muni codes they want to pass. Ridiculous. and I got the feeling that some of the council members saw it as ridiculous also. The one that mentioned looking over a wall of your neighbor and how that was different than using a UAV, was great. It is scary what the city wants to do. It's sad. Hopefully FAA would protect us flying anywhere that is safe. Over the beach.... pretty darn safe as long as you are not over a huge group of people. Heck you are over the water most the time. Safer than a RC model airplane park.
I would go about things differently, but that's because I have argued with cops before... and sued them... and won. (not related to UAV operations) So my personality is a tad different. I would go fly at the airpark and not get the "required" membership. How can they make you join a club. It's a public park correct? Not private property? It's definitely public airspace. And I am sure when you get your Part 107 you will have more training and knowledge than some of those model airplane pilots.

Timothy, I am on your side. I was just trying to get as much information from you and come up with solutions. Have a good time learning your P4. I see the biggest problem you will have down in HB is the **** SeaGulls. LOL

I am an aerial photographer. Usually do Air-to-Air photography/cinematography and starting to do more UAV work.

Did you see Flyerfocus' post just above regarding Federal Per Emption?
Try and argue that with a Cop. If that premise is true than why are so many cities and states trying so hard to shut us down. I think the real cause is mass paranoia among the public regarding "drones". I could mount a camera on an RC plane and fly over my neighborhood and not even raise an eyebrow.

I do appreciate your posting here. Its clear though you have much larger balls than me. Dealing with Cops has never gone well for me.

Air to Air.... cool job!

 

[SoCalDude]

Another nice video. What are you processing with.

Thanks!

I've been using PowerDirector for quite a few years now (maybe five). It provides professional features at a very affordable price. I'm currently using v13 and have been using it since v9.

Also, I capture all my Phantom video in 4K and PowerDirector handles 4K video files very well.

 

[JesterPhotog]

I did see in the video when it talked about FAA PerEmption and Flyerfocus' response. The cities have to do what their citizens want. That's how they reelected. Will it stand up in court.... Probably not. The example of LA City prosecutors losing the case is evidence enough. FAA might actually be our friend on this issue.

 

[FlyerFocus]

Did you see Flyerfocus' post just above regarding Federal Per Emption?
Try and argue that with a Cop. If that premise is true than why are so many cities and states trying so hard to shut us down. I think the real cause is mass paranoia among the public regarding "drones". I could mount a camera on an RC plane and fly over my neighborhood and not even raise an eyebrow.

I do appreciate your posting here. Its clear though you have much larger balls than me. Dealing with Cops has never gone well for me.

Air to Air.... cool job!

Very true! I never said it would be easy. Hams have been taken to court by their HOAs. Cops generally are not educated in the ways of FARs and that's what it comes down to: education. I can tell you that when you're actively in a situation wherein you are being challenged and tempers are flaring, that is probably not the best time to try to educate a police officer or a member of the general public. I proactively put a letter in the mailbox of all my neighbors letting them know I have been a commercially licensed pilot for decades and I am building proficiency with the drone so I can do real estate and other videos. On weekends I try to do my flying in a big open space away from home, but after work sometimes I will fly in our court. I let them know everything I am doing is on the up-and-up. I'm registered, licensed, and legal. I told them if I saw a neighbor flying a drone around, I'd be spooked and I would want to know what's up--hence this letter. I let them know I have zero interest in what happens in their back yard, unless of course they have invite me to their BBQ. Told them if they need a look at the tiles on their roof I'd be happy to help, but if their cats up a tree I'm not their guy. I included my phone number, email, and invited them to come on out and give it a try for a minute if they see me flying (I put it up above the treeline and I'll let them play with the right joystick only, all they want). The letter was well received and I even got a promise of one invite to a BBQ next time they have one. That was my version of pro-actively educating BEFORE someone came out of house all angry and paranoid.

So maybe doing something like that with your local PD, pro-actively and not in the heat of the moment? Honestly it's something I've been contemplating doing with my local PD myself but have not, as of yet, broached.

It's an uphill battle for sure but at least at the end of the day the law is on your side.

 

[SoCalDude]

Part 2 of my Sunset Aquatic Marina flyover in Huntington Beach ...

 

[Rob Levine]

I don't know about municipal permits in your area, but under Part 107 all that matters is airspace Class. It's the exact stuff you're studying right now for your FAA exam. You don't have to join AMA. You just need to have your Part 107 certification and the knowledge of airspace Classes, regulations for ops in those airspaces, and authorizations.

Here's a question: Does the five mile away from an airport restriction apply to those who have passed the Part 107 test?

 

[N42742]

No five mile issue for Part 107 ops. It's all about airspace class.

 

[SoCalDude]

Also what I haven't mentioned is I've been hassled several times already. Guess I look like trouble.

Where were you?

 

[304HighDrone]

Looks like it's class G airspace around the Huntington pier. Check for any local ordinance.

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