New or old motors phantom 3

[JayS_CT]

At this point, they are no longer efficiency claims/longer flight times that you can legitimately question. The P3P came out in March of 2015. 18 months of documented flights over the same terrain in back to back flights with multiple new and old motor birds have established the increased flight times of the new motor aircraft. The "why" is open for debate, but the flight time increase is not.

Not challenging, but I'm also in the camp that is not 100% convinced. Flight times and distance is affected by so many variables that unless it were an absolutely controlled environment one would be hard pressed to say the conditions were exactly the same. Did you keep the MPH (or KPH) exactly the same, were the wind conditions identical, did you rise and maintain elevation the same, was the same battery used and if not, could the batteries hold exactly the same full charge, etc..? Even if the flight path were off by 5% (which isn't much) it could produce an entirely different set of results..

I still tend to believe there was a reason why the motors on the P3A and P3P were different from the Standard for a reason (which has the "newer" motors we've talking about for a while I believe). Meaning I think they were new to the P3A and P3P but were the stock motors on the Standard. I also think that when it came time to start to ramp up the production line for the P4 (which is an entirely different motor yet again) that for the remaining life, they needed to standardize on one motor to accommodate building the new motors. We also know that there was a design change on the ESC to support the new motors.. one which moved some of the function onto that board. In the past, if you lost an old motor you could just replace it. Now, I believe, since that function is consolidated onto the ESC, if you lose an old motor it takes a board swap as well updating all the motors (unless you can still find an old motor) ..

 

[Ed209]

Tests were done ad nauseam. I know my birds and flight paths well enough. There is definitely 2-3min more flight time on avg. And when you're running down to 1% on your battery pushing distance, that is a big margin.

Also, with a new motors bird if you lose a "motor" you can just replace a motor. If you fry your ESC then you need a whole new main board. Old motors birds you can just replace the ESC.

 

[JayS_CT]

Tests were done ad nauseam. I know my birds and flight paths well enough. There is definitely 2-3min more flight time on avg. And when you're running down to 1% on you battery pushing distance, that is a big margin.

Also, with a new motors bird if you lose a "motor" you can just replace a motor. If you fry your ESC then you need a whole new main board. Old motors birds you can just replace the ESC.

The old motors will not work with the new ESC (according to DJI). I was talking about losing an old motor and being able to replace it since DJI is now only producing the new motor. You also cannot run new motors on the older ESC.. so if you fry the ESC you will need a new ESC and 4 new motors (again from what I was told by DJI). As long as DJI has inventory of both old motors and ESCs, there isn't necessarily an issue.. Time may come when that's not the case.

Can't debate your results on distance because, as you said, they are yours. Just saying that I think that there are too many variables that come into play to be absolute about any gains. I've flown side by side with P3P with new motors and both batteries tended to reach the same percentage within 10 to 15 seconds of each other (given the conditions we were in).

And pardon the pun "Your mileage may vary".

 

[Meta4]

We also know that there was a design change on the ESC to support the new motors.. one which moved some of the function onto that board. In the past, if you lost an old motor you could just replace it. Now, I believe, since that function is consolidated onto the ESC, if you lose an old motor it takes a board swap as well updating all the motors (unless you can still find an old motor) ..

Also, with a new motors bird if you lose a "motor" you can just replace a motor. If you fry your ESC then you need a whole new main board. Old motors birds you can just replace the ESC.

On the P2 series you could replace ESCs but the ESCs are on the main board on the P3 for both new and original motors.

 

[Ed209]

The old motors will not work with the new ESC (according to DJI). I was talking about losing an old motor and being able to replace it since DJI is now only producing the new motor. You also cannot run new motors on the existing ESC.. so if you fry the ESC you will need a new ESC and 4 new motors (again from what I was told by DJI). As long as DJI has inventory of both old motors and ESCs, there isn't necessarily an issue.. Time may come when that's not the case.

Can't debate your results on distance because, as you said, they are yours. Just saying that I think that there are too many variables that come into play to be absolute about any gains. I've flown side by side with P3P with new motors and both batteries tended to reach the same percentage within 10 to 15 seconds (given the conditions we were in).

And pardon the pun "Your mileage may vary".

Your original, unedited post didn't make it clear you were talking about swapping motors on the birds. We all know that's not possible. It was part of the DJI bulletin when the new motors birds were released. Old motors are fine still but for me, I will not push them for any records because I know my new motors bird does consistently better.

 

[JayS_CT]

On the P2 series you could replace ESCs but the ESCs are on the main board on the P3 for both new and original motors.

That was part of the change. The ESCs are not on the main board with the older motors for the P3A and P3P (hence a different main board). Since the new motors DO have the ESCs on the main board if you lose one ESC (unlike the old P3A/P3P motors where you could just replace that Motor/ESC combo) you need to replace the entire board now.

 

[JayS_CT]

Your original, unedited post didn't make it clear you were talking about swapping motors on the birds. We all know that's not possible. It was part of the DJI bulletin when the new motors birds were released. Old motors are fine still but for me, I will not push them for any records because I know my new motors bird does consistently better.

Thought I included that difference in that post, sorry if it was not clear. And I agree.. I don't push the distance and/or flight time to the point where I'm at risk. Doesn't make sense for me with 3 more charged batteries waiting to go in.. ;-)

 

[Oso]

That was part of the change. The ESCs are not on the main board with the older motors for the P3A and P3P (hence a different main board). Since the new motors DO have the ESCs on the main board if you lose one ESC (unlike the old P3A/P3P motors where you could just replace that Motor/ESC combo) you need to replace the entire board now.

As @Meta4 noted, the ESCs have always been on the main board for the P3.

 

[msinger]

The ESCs are not on the main board with the older motors for the P3A and P3P (hence a different main board). Since the new motors DO have the ESCs on the main board if you lose one ESC (unlike the old P3A/P3P motors where you could just replace that Motor/ESC combo) you need to replace the entire board now.

Old center board:

New center board:

 

[Ed209]

As @Meta4 noted, the ESCs have always been on the main board for the P3.

Wow, thanks for this. I must have read some old/bad info as I remember seeing pictures of the P3 with individual ESCs but they must have been from a different model. I never opened my old motors P3 but just always assumed individual ESCs were in the arms.

 

[JayS_CT]

Wow, thanks for this. I must have read some old/bad info as I remember seeing pictures of the P3 with individual ESCs but they must have been from a different model. I never opened my old motors P3 but just always assumed individual ESCs were in the arms.

Likewise, and I will stand corrected, but it was DJI that told me of the ESC difference, and likewise have not taken my P3P apart.. Again my source was DJI in California. Clearly we all know that the motors and boards have to go together, but they (in my conversation) said that the motor swap for the old board/old motor, entailed less than with the new board/new motor, as it related to ESC considerations.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Despite the roughly 10% increased flight time, caused by the efficiency of the new motors, the original motor birds still have 20% stronger video power output for more stable FPV, which is far more important for distance flying, even if you have to accept the 10% shorter flight time. Since DJI only advertised 1.3 miles on the original P3P, but it delivered 3 miles, the reduction in FPV aircraft video power output, which independently accompanied the new motors, went mostly unnoticed, except for those of us already spoiled by the original superior video power output.

 

[JayS_CT]

Despite the roughly 10% increased flight time, caused by the efficiency of the new motors, the original motor birds still have 20% stronger video power output for more stable FPV, which is far more important for distance flying, even if you have to accept the 10% shorter flight time. Since DJI only advertised 1.3 miles on the original P3P, but it delivered 3 miles, the reduction in FPV aircraft video power output, which independently accompanied the new motors, went mostly unnoticed, except for those of us already spoiled by the original superior video power output.

I think that applied to the original 322 (P3A) and 323 (P3P) models. With successive models (b and c models), the transmission power went down. There is a chart floating around somewhere if I can dig it up. I think there were original motor birds that were b and c models that had the lower transmission power. Was told recently (and trying to verify) that the GL300A also had a higher transmission rating than the GL300B and C Remotes.. I modded both an A and B for the Itelite DB mod and can get more distance when the Itelite is on the 300A (again mileage may vary).

 

[GadgetGuy]

I think that applied to the original 322 (P3A) and 323 (P3P) models. With successive models (b and c models), the transmission power went down. There is a chart floating around somewhere if I can dig it up. I think there were original motor birds that were b and c models that had the lower transmission power. Was told recently (and trying to verify) that the GL300A also had a higher transmission rating than the GL300B and C Remotes.. I modded both an A and B for the Itelite DB mod and can get more distance when the Itelite is on the 300A (again mileage may vary).

Correct on almost all accounts! I "wrote the book" on it here multiple times!
There was also an A aircraft version before the B version. The matching versions of RC's were one letter higher, so the W323 came with the GL300A, the W323A came with the GL300B, and the W323B came with the GL300C. The last was the very worst on all specs for FPV power output and controller output. I get the best results using modded GL300A controllers with all the aircraft, including the P4, and only use the W323 versions of the P3P.

 

[Oso]

Correct on almost all accounts! I "wrote the book" on it here multiple times!
There was also an A aircraft version before the B version. The matching versions of RC's were one letter higher, so the W323 came with the GL300A, the W323A came with the GL300B, and the W323B came with the GL300C. The last was the very worst on all specs for FPV power output and controller output. I get the best results using modded GL300A controllers with all the aircraft, including the P4, and only use the W323 versions of the P3P.

You beat me to it. I was going to add that the "charts floating around" as he said were probably written by you in the first place. You did indeed "write the book" on this topic.

 

[GadgetGuy]

You beat me to it. I was going to add that the "charts floating around" as he said were probably written by you in the first place. You did indeed "write the book" on this topic.

Thanks! It was a very frustrating discovery, because when my wonderful original W323 aircraft with over 200 flights on it was totalled in a drop from 215 feet, due to the battery shutoff in midair bug, I couldn't just go out and buy a new one, to replace it during the 5 week warranty claim process. I tried, but several brand new W323A birds all came up way short! 5 mile solid FPV was reduced to instability beginning at 3 miles and lost totally at 4 miles, without elevating to over 400 feet, which was worthless for video of the surf! Only by buying lightly used W323 aircraft was I able to restore my original FPV range. DJI also made no promises about replacing my old aircraft with another W323. "You'll get whatever P3P we have available." Ultimately, it was a W322 with a 4K gimbal and camera mounted on it, which was close enough for me.

 

[JayS_CT]

Thanks! It was a very frustrating discovery, because when my wonderful original W323 aircraft with over 200 flights on it was totalled in a drop from 215 feet, due to the battery shutoff in midair bug, I couldn't just go out and buy a new one, to replace it during the 5 week warranty claim process. I tried, but several brand new W323A birds all came up way short! 5 mile solid FPV was reduced to instability beginning at 3 miles and lost totally at 4 miles, without elevating to over 400 feet, which was worthless for video of the surf! Only by buying lightly used W323 aircraft was I able to restore my original FPV range. DJI also made no promises about replacing my old aircraft with another W323. "You'll get whatever P3P we have available." Ultimately, it was a W322 with a 4K gimbal and camera mounted on it, which was close enough for me.

Exactly what I have ... Started with a 322 P3A, upgraded to 4K camera and FW (DJI even supplied me with a Professional Golden Badge for the front) Picked up the GL300A on an EBay auction which just happened to come with an HDMI module, so lucked out there as well. They are brittle plastic though.. :-( Googled my bird's serial # to get the power associated and was right where it should be..

 

[GadgetGuy]

Exactly what I have ... Started with a 322 P3A, upgraded to 4K camera and FW (DJI even supplied me with a Professional Golden Badge for the front) Picked up the GL300A on an EBay auction which just happened to come with an HDMI module, so lucked out there as well. They are brittle plastic though.. :-( Googled my bird's serial # to get the power associated and was right where it should be..

One of my three "lightly used" P3P's came with a GL300A already modded with a DBS-02 antenna. That was a real bonus, as I use it with my P4, and use my own FPVLR v2 modded GL300A with all the P3P's to keep both systems sandboxed! I also can easily compare and contrast the two antenna mods. Surprisingly, the linear polarized DBS-02 actually has even better FPV range and stability, which was a real bonus for use with the P4.

 

[JayS_CT]

One of my three "lightly used" P3P's came with a GL300A already modded with a DBS-02 antenna. That was a real bonus, as I use it with my P4, and use my own FPVLR v2 modded GL300A with all the P3P's to keep both systems sandboxed! I also can easily compare and contrast the two antenna mods. Surprisingly, the linear polarized DBS-02 actually has even better FPV range and stability, which was a real bonus for use with the P4.

Just wish there was a less intrusive way to have the aircraft signal a bit more.... longer antenna, lightweight "panel" that snaps on across the back legs, etc.. Something light, but that takes the best of the flat panel type technology and applies it birdside.. Realize it would have to involve opening the aircraft.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Just wish there was a less intrusive way to have the aircraft signal a bit more.... longer antenna, lightweight "panel" that snaps on across the back legs, etc.. Something light, but that takes the best of the flat panel type technology and applies it birdside.. Realize it would have to involve opening the aircraft.

Tony at FPVLR claimed to have a birdside video mod. However, it was mutually exclusive with the birdside battery mod, which made it useless for me, as without the external batteries to support the radio control range, the stronger video signal was of no value. Those who sent their aircraft in to him for the birdside video mod anyway all regretted it. My own solution was to simply buy lightly used W323 aircraft that didn't require additional video output amplification.