Crashed P4 - data/pictures inside - what to do next?

[msinger]

what is your justification for claiming pilot error?

From what you're saying, it seems you had the elevator at full stick until your Phantom crashed. Your Phantom must have stopped transmitting data back to the remote controller before you straightened your arms (since the flight log does not show you releasing the sticks). The flight log shows no hesitation on the sticks right up to the end of the flight, so I can only assume you thought your Phantom was flying higher than it really was flying.

The only odd thing about your flight log is that the pitch/roll/yaw are consistent right up to the end of the flight log. I would have expected one or more of those values to change quickly right after impact. I suppose the battery could have popped out on impact, the data could have stopped transmitting due to the water infiltration, or the signal could have disconnected since you were on a small boat that was very close to the surface of the water.

 

[DOYAM]

From what you're saying, it seems you had the elevator at full stick until your Phantom crashed. Your Phantom must have stopped transmitting data back to the remote controller before you straightened your arms (since the flight log does not show you releasing the sticks). The flight log shows no hesitation on the sticks right up to the end of the flight, so I can only assume you thought your Phantom was flying higher than it really was flying.

The only odd thing about your flight log is that the pitch/roll/yaw are consistent right up to the end of the flight log. I would have expected one or more of those values to change quickly right after impact. I suppose the battery could have popped out on impact, the data could have stopped transmitting due to the water infiltration, or the signal could have disconnected since you were on a small boat that was very close to the surface of the water.

I appreciate your input, all I know is the facts that I have stated, we can speculate all day.

 

[msinger]

we can speculate all day

I'm only telling you what your flight log is telling me. It's quite different from your story.

 

[Brockrock]

I rarely use Sports Mode, but when I do, I always keep it at least 50' in altitude, and I fly mostly over water. I have noticed that it does descend in this Mode with no input from the left stick. I think it is due to the forward tilt of the copter at higher speeds.

 

[DOYAM]

I'm only telling you what your flight log is telling me. It's quite different from your story.

I understand but you have to admit, you are inserting a some error in DJI's favor without conclusive evidence. In other words, I think you are reading into that its my fault without proof. But I could be wrong, it may be my fault. What I saw wasnt normal though.

I rarely use Sports Mode, but when I do, I always keep it at least 50' in altitude, and I fly mostly over water. I have noticed that it does descend in this Mode with no input from the left stick. I think it is due to the forward tilt of the copter at higher speeds.

I agree it does but I has been 100% full elevator stick for quite some time and never let off. The altitude drop usually occurs when first moving forward in Sport mode. I know I probably shouldnt have been flying in that mode but did it anyways due to time. Lesson learned.

 

[msinger]

I understand but you have to admit, you are inserting a some error in DJI's favor without conclusive evidence. In other words, I think you are reading into that its my fault without proof.

I've only stated what your flight log shows (so you're not surprised when you hear back from DJI). I don't work for DJI and I don't benefit from siding with them.

 

[DOYAM]

I've only stated what your flight log shows (so you're not surprised when you hear back from DJI). I don't work for DJI and I don't benefit from siding with them.

Understood. I really do appreciate your help.

 

[Brockrock]

I understand but you have to admit, you are inserting a some error in DJI's favor without conclusive evidence. In other words, I think you are reading into that its my fault without proof. But I could be wrong, it may be my fault. What I saw wasnt normal though.



I agree it does but I has been 100% full elevator stick for quite some time and never let off. The altitude drop usually occurs when first moving forward in Sport mode. I know I probably shouldnt have been flying in that mode but did it anyways due to time. Lesson learned.

Well, I am sorry for your loss. It's a big bummer, and we can all agree on that. Those who looked at your logs can only infer cause based on what the logs show, and I assure you, nobody means anything negative or personal by stating "pilot error". A mistake could happen to any one of us, and they often happen very suddenly... Unfortunately, DJI will make their decision to cover or not cover a loss based on what the logs show.

 

[msinger]

Please stop back and let us know when you hear back from DJI. It'll be interesting to see if their findings are the same or different.

 

[Meta4]

Clearly the IMU altitude is wrong, the VPS height is accurate.

Relying on the accuracy of VPS altitude data in Sport mode is not a good idea, particularly when you are very close to water.
In Sport mode, your Phantom is tilted forward at 42° which means the VPS is not pointing straight down.
And the water surface is not a good target for reliable data from the VPS.
Here is the relevant section of your manual regarding limitations of the VPS system:
Note B, C, D and possibly others

I understand but you have to admit, you are inserting a some error in DJI's favor without conclusive evidence. In other words, I think you are reading into that its my fault without proof. But I could be wrong, it may be my fault. What I saw wasnt normal though.

The Throttle data is pretty clear.
It shows that you were descending for the last six seconds and still had the left stick down at the end of the flight record.

 

[Neon Euc]

Let's not forget... The waves going up and down on the ocean will tell the drone that its near the floor, then not near the floor then near the floor, then not near the floor, etc... This does not help

 

[DOYAM]

Let's not forget... The waves going up and down on the ocean will tell the drone that its near the floor, then not near the floor then near the floor, then not near the floor, etc... This does not help

This was in the a sound, not ocean and really no waves, if any, they would be classified as 3" waves.

 

[DOYAM]

Relying on the accuracy of VPS altitude data in Sport mode is not a good idea, particularly when you are very close to water.
In Sport mode, your Phantom is tilted forward at 42° which means the VPS is not pointing straight down.
And the water surface is not a good target for reliable data from the VPS.
Here is the relevant section of your manual regarding limitations of the VPS system:
Note B, C, D and possibly others

The Throttle data is pretty clear.
It shows that you were descending for the last six seconds and still had the left stick down at the end of the flight record.

I was decending and you can see that from both the video and Flight Record. The last blip of down throttle is no enough to drop it 8'. Did you see the graph?

 

[msinger]

That's the VPS data and it's likely not accurate since it's showing your Phantom dropped 8 feet in 0.1 seconds. I've never seen a Phantom (or any falling object on the planet Earth) move that fast. The IMU altitude is not accurate either, but the rate the IMU altitude was dropping is probably more accurate.

 

[John1960]

Dont think the lads going to accept he cocked up

 

[DOYAM]

Dont think the lads going to accept he cocked up

I am happy to admit I screwed up if I did. Fact is, none of the data is correct and the ones claiming pilot error are interpolating data and commenting based on opinion - which is what I asked for truthfully. There is no conclusive evidence that shows either way.

The sad thing is, I am a decently experienced flyer (99 flights under my belt plus other rc helicopter experience) and it dropped like I have never seen it drop, even in sport mode, even with full down throttle (which the input was 30% max). Even with all that DJI is going to go off of opinion and probably find just like most of you are. I hope not though especially since I am going to buy another drone.

 

[Meta4]

Fact is, none of the data is correct and the ones claiming pilot error are interpolating data and commenting based on opinion - which is what I asked for truthfully. There is no conclusive evidence that shows either way.

Even with all that DJI is going to go off of opinion and probably find just like most of you are.

Those that have commented on your flight data have done exactly what DJI will do.
We've looked at the data and told you what it is saying.
That's not making things up based on opinions, it's just reading the data story.

That story is that you were 320 feet away from your drone with it zipping along very close to the water surface at 41.7 mph and descending at 7 feet per second.
There is no reason to believe any of that is incorrect.
There are limitations to the accuracy of the two altitude sensors but the rate of descent given by the barometer is a number that should be accurate and the problems with VPS in Sport mode on water have been pointed out.
Another data point that is dubious is your insistence that you saw it fall from 8 feet.
When did you last get your height perception from 320 feet calibrated?

If you are flying fast very close to the water's surface (less than 8 ft above the water) and descending at 7 ft/sec, what is the logical outcome in the next 0.5 to 1 second?

 

[DOYAM]

Those that have commented on your flight data have done exactly what DJI will do.
We've looked at the data and told you what it is saying.
That's not making things up based on opinions, it's just reading the data story.

That story is that you were 320 feet away from your drone with it zipping along very close to the water surface at 41.7 mph and descending at 7 feet per second.
There is no reason to believe any of that is incorrect.
There are limitations to the accuracy of the two altitude sensors but the rate of descent given by the barometer is a number that should be accurate and the problems with VPS in Sport mode on water have been pointed out.
Another data point that is dubious is your insistence that you saw it fall from 8 feet.
When did you last get your height perception from 320 feet calibrated?

If you are flying fast very close to the water's surface (less than 8 ft above the water) and descending at 7 ft/sec, what is the logical outcome in the next 0.5 to 1 second?

Like I always say and mean it, I appreciate your input. A couple things though, I was MUCH closer than 320ft as I pointed out I was on a boat (captained by someone else) and we had moved closer. I'd say I was 100ft away. I know it was around 8ft, a little higher - math: I'm 6ft, that puts my eyes around 5.5ft and I was about 2ft off the water. I think it was closer to 10ft (still above my eye level), hence why I was descending so I could catch it. Also, my vision is excellent and I mean excellent. I just wanted to state the facts. Again, thanks for your input.

 

[Phill2]

Is it preferable to disable VPS over water?

 

[Phill2]

Is it preferable to disable VPS over water?

The reason I ask is cause I use mine for fishing but uaually stay at about 10m