Sad that my flying days are over Monday

[Butterpuff 6]

I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.

The AMA has taken the stance that you have to be a member of the AMA in order to be following its community-based programming. Specifically they say: "To operate within the programming of AMA, we require membership as members must: 1. Explicitly affirm that they have read, understand and intend to operate within AMA’s safety guidelines as a condition of membership. 2. Maintain an appropriate level of financial responsibility to afford third party restitution in the event of injury or property damage. (To insure this is met, AMA provides $500k to $2.5 million in liability coverage for each member as a member benefit. This coverage is secondary to any personal liability coverage such as a homeowners policy.) 3. Interactively liparticipate in AMA’s safety program by providing contact information through which the AMA can distribute relevant safety information such as FAA TFR notices, and by which members can provide input and feedback to the AMA on safety related issues." Obviously the AMA wants people to be paying members and have tried to make their program where you have to be a member to say you are following it.

I think one could probably successfully argue that they can operate under the AMA's guidelines without being a member because the major provisions of its safety program are known to the public. But, I guess this would have to be determined by the FAA or the courts.

I don't think they have, and they have no right to say, whether you have to be a member of another community-based organization, in order to operate under the other organization's safety program. That would be up to the other organization.

I'm an AMA member and that's probably the most effective way to demonstrate that you are following a community-based program right now. However, I think someone could probably successfully argue that they are following AMA guidelines without being a member - of course you would have to put forth the effort to prove that is the case.

 

[Multicoptertec]

The reality is that anything that is or could be dangerous such as flying a 3lb object 400' over the heads of unsuspecting people will most definitely at some point be regulated. And in my opinion it should be. Doesn't matter if a few drone operators are "stupid" and don't follow the rules or not. In other words. A few bad apples are not going to ruin it for the rest of us the inherent danger of this hobby is what is going to bring about these rules. I don't want to be walking through the city and have anything fall on my head. the reality is these drones are not perfect, look at all the fly always and crashes people post. That's why I fly over sparcly populated areas. I'm a realist and even though I have great confidence in my abilities to pilot I don't have the same in confidence in the equipment.

So "sparcly" (assume you meant "sparsly") populated areas are ok, your odds are better, less babies and puppies and little old ladies there.


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[Butterpuff 6]

I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.

Please either post the information or PM me where the AMA said you had to be a member of a CBO. I know they have said you have to be a member of AMA to be considered as operating under their guidelines, but I haven't seen anything that says you have to be a member of another CBO to operate under those other CBO's guidelines.

 

[Butterpuff 6]

I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.

FAA email on CBO Membership

• Butterpuff 6
• Sep 3, 2016

 

[jason]

That's the FAA interpretation of section 336 second paragraph but not the intent of Congress.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

[Butterpuff 6]

Ok. But regardless of all this discussion, tonight I will be legally flying under the programming of the AMA with my Phantom 4 illuminated to provide a clear view of its altitude and orientation.

 

[dirkclod]

And with that lets move on now shall we

 

[42FrankZ]

I joined the AMA just to be on the safe side, and the insurance, and cause $75 wasn't out of scope for that just in case thing.

 

[Fat Daddy]

Whether or not you believe it it's a fact. Now if your game go night flying without being certified under 107 and a waiver for night activity and hopefully you don't get caught doing so.

I agree it's a fact that the AMA said it. It's not a fact that you need to be a member to fly at night as a hobbyist. That, kind sir, is interpretation and opinion.




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[SamNetwork]

RIP freedom (of drones).

 

[iflyhelis]

So, I registered my P3P with DJI & I am told through the manual & the DJI GO app I am not restricted, just like the "AMA"

If a warning on the app pops up I can click on "I have prior permissions & go fly. Of course give way to all manned aircraft.

I have not heard anybody mention this on the forum.

Kurt

Part 107 applies to COMMERCIAL usage, not hobby usage.

If you are flying as a hobby, you fall under Part 101, not Part 107.

Part 101 applies to:

(5) Any model aircraft that meets the conditions specified in §101.41. For purposes of this part, a model aircraft is an unmanned aircraft that is:

(i) Capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;

(ii) Flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and

(iii) Flown for hobby or recreational purposes.



Your restrictions:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(which basically means the AMA's safety rules as of now: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf)

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.


NOTE:

The AMA Safety Code does NOT mandate daytime-only flying!

"RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination​

systems are inadequate for night flying operations."

It does require that you avoid overflying unprotected people, vessels, or structures:

"All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others."​

 

[Traveler]

Please either post the information or PM me where the AMA said you had to be a member of a CBO. I know they have said you have to be a member of AMA to be considered as operating under their guidelines, but I haven't seen anything that says you have to be a member of another CBO to operate under those other CBO's guidelines.

Joining a CBO is a choice that each person needs to examine for self value, but if you are joining for the sole purpose of using that CBO's guidelines, consider my question and reply from the FAA. The questions was asked on September 2, 2016 and the response was received on September 22, 2016.

-----Original Message-----
My Question:
"For UAS Hobby use, it is said that we are to follow the guidelines that are established within a CBO, i.e., AMA. My question is, does one have to be a member of said CBO to use or follow their guidelines?

If yes, would that not emply that a Hobbyist could not operate in he or she were not part of a CBO?"

Answer from the FAA:
"Thank you for your inquiry. The FAA does not interpret PL 112-95 Section 336 (a) (2) as requiring membership in a CBO, nor does the FAA list any CBOs. You must only follow the guidelines of a CBO."

 

[captainmilehigh]

Thanks for posting the question and response concerning CBO guidelines and the FAA response. I interpreted that the same way, but it's good to know FAA's interpretation as well.


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[iflyhelis]

Still nobody has posted that they have read & understand what I just said. Strange?

Kurt

 

[Butterpuff 6]

Still nobody has posted that they have read & understand what I just said. Strange?

Kurt

I have read your comment, but I do not understand what you were trying to say.

 

[iflyhelis]

I have read your comment, but I do not understand what you were trying to say.

See post #171

Kurt

So, I registered my P3P with DJI & I am told through the manual & the DJI GO app I am not restricted, just like the "AMA"

If a warning on the app pops up I can click on "I have prior permissions & go fly. Of course give way to all manned aircraft.

I have not heard anybody mention this on the forum.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I live in the city, and not much interested in videos consisting of nothing but unpopulated, wide open fields of endless trees, grass or water.

No nighttime. No over people. No near big structures (buildings). No out of VLOS (and at 50 that ain't far).

Basically every type of flying that I do today ends Monday.

Out of all the videos I watched today on here and YouTube - I'd guess 90% of them l overflew people or cars or buildings; maybe 70% seemed out of VLOS. Forget long range runs; Who can see their drone a mile out, or three?

Feeling sad a bit


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This is exactly why I have chosen to continue as a hobbyist as opposed to commercial, though there is plenty of money to be made here and I'm as near the top of the bubble around here as anybody.

I refuse to give up my rights as a hobbyist for commercial gain. The two should not be mutually exclusive but they are. That's a shame, but I have made my choice, which was the only one I could make for me. I'm 25 years vested in the hobby.

 

[Butterpuff 6]

This is exactly why I have chosen to continue as a hobbyist as opposed to commercial, though there is plenty of money to be made here and I'm as near the top of the bubble around here as anybody.

I refuse to give up my rights as a hobbyist for commercial gain. The two should not be mutually exclusive but they are. That's a shame, but I have made my choice, which was the only one I could make for me. I'm 25 years vested in the hobby.

According to the AMA, you can still fly as a hobbyist, with all of your rights, even if you have your commercial license. You just can't be performing commercial activity if you are doing something as a hobbyist that you can't be doing as a commercial pilot.

 

[joet]

According to the AMA, you can still fly as a hobbyist, with all of your rights, even if you have your commercial license. You just can't be performing commercial activity if you are doing something as a hobbyist that you can't be doing as a commercial pilot.

This is correct. The same rule applies - if your flight is in furtherance of business, it's conducted under Part 107. If it's for your hobby,.it's conducted under Part 101 (hobby rule). Just because you pass Part 107 doesn't mean that all flights are conducted under it.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

According to the AMA, you can still fly as a hobbyist, with all of your rights, even if you have your commercial license. You just can't be performing commercial activity if you are doing something as a hobbyist that you can't be doing as a commercial pilot.

Supporting documentation and links, please?

I'm the first to admit I don't read everything they post and I may have missed this but I can't find it.