So what is intelligent Battery ? Apart from regular power bank, it has some electronic chip to keep tab on stats of battery consumption and might have some other intelligent features. My question is, why can't DJI keep the electronic chip which process intelligent features, separate from battery ? Why we are forced to buy same chip along with battery ? How hard is it to keep the intelligent chip on drone, rather than battery ? This way cost of battery will come down to just 20% .. but no, DJI want to sell chip every time we purchase battery. Isn't this is kind of fraud to fool people ?
Why we are forced to buy intelligent chip everytime we purchase DJI Battery ?
- Thread starter Lalit
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The purpose of that "chip" as you call it is such that you are able to maintain your batteries external to the aircraft. Most people have multiple batteries with a single aircraft. The self-disharge function is there to protect the battery, also allowing you from time to time to check the battery levels and top off as necessary for longevity. Without those separate functions, you would be hard pressed for proper maintenance.
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I too brought that up in other threads about what I'd like to see in future drones. Depending on how they want to design them, one of my ideas is to have dumb batteries which have a smart cap which you connect to them when not plugged into the bird, which also has the smarts internally. In addition to that, the charger would also have the smarts built in.
The batteries we purchase are ridiculously high in price, limiting our purchasing of them. I'm sure there is possibly a good reason, like safety, but I'm just hoping it's not mostly about profits. Just like printer cartridges, we're screwed on this, I believe.
Fly Dawg has hit the nail on the head. It is mainly for safety when not in use. LiPo batteries come with special handling & care as they are not your average household alkaline. Most buyers would never maintain them properly so if it were a separate item the entire purpose of it is rendered useless.
alokbhargava
Premium Pilot
So called electronic circuit on the battery does the following:
1. Switch on/ off the battery. Great safety feature
2. Help balanced charging
3. Battery charge status display
4. Battery discharge to safe storage level
5. Live communication with drone regarding remaing charge on it
6. Battery charge cycles counter
All these features definitely improve flying reliability. One of the very important feature but hidden to the users is the battery discharge characteristics. If you use the recommended dji battery, you will be sure that drone system will compute the remaining charge on the battery accurately and will allow you to get your drone back safely in time. These characteristics vary with the battery temperatures. If you use third party batteries, it would be your guess when to get drone back as the numbers displayed may not be accurate.
1. Switch on/ off the battery. Great safety feature
2. Help balanced charging
3. Battery charge status display
4. Battery discharge to safe storage level
5. Live communication with drone regarding remaing charge on it
6. Battery charge cycles counter
All these features definitely improve flying reliability. One of the very important feature but hidden to the users is the battery discharge characteristics. If you use the recommended dji battery, you will be sure that drone system will compute the remaining charge on the battery accurately and will allow you to get your drone back safely in time. These characteristics vary with the battery temperatures. If you use third party batteries, it would be your guess when to get drone back as the numbers displayed may not be accurate.
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As others have said- bare dumb LiPO packs require time, knowledge and specialised equipment to see reliable and safe performance in charge, use and handling.
The DJI battery smarts are essentially the factory application note implementation of theTexas instrument bqz35 battery management SOC AKA smart battery monitor with impedence track and fuel gauge. As you probably realise the electronics also provide for balance charging and auto discharge. Total cost for all semiconductors and requires passive components would be less that $20 US in small quantities, significantly less in the volumes DJI’s battery suppliers would be purchasing.
While your frustration is understood reality is the cost of including the smart electronics in the battery does not represent 80% of the cost.
In any case you can’t easily realise the benefits we are experiencing from the smart batteries by having the subject electronics in the AC. This is principally because the battery characteristics including IR, usable capacity, charge count, time to empty etc are all specific to the cells in the pack and tracked over the battery life.
The DJI battery smarts are essentially the factory application note implementation of theTexas instrument bqz35 battery management SOC AKA smart battery monitor with impedence track and fuel gauge. As you probably realise the electronics also provide for balance charging and auto discharge. Total cost for all semiconductors and requires passive components would be less that $20 US in small quantities, significantly less in the volumes DJI’s battery suppliers would be purchasing.
While your frustration is understood reality is the cost of including the smart electronics in the battery does not represent 80% of the cost.
In any case you can’t easily realise the benefits we are experiencing from the smart batteries by having the subject electronics in the AC. This is principally because the battery characteristics including IR, usable capacity, charge count, time to empty etc are all specific to the cells in the pack and tracked over the battery life.
Perhaps in the future we could have a battery case with electronics that would be reusable and allowed you to replace just the batteries. It could force a reset on the electronics once changed so tracking would be applied to the new set.
A downfall is having to add another set of mechanical connections that can be a failure point.
Geo
The smart feature is the biggest joke. I have had 2 batteries die in less than a year that were maintained EXACTLY how the manual says. NO WHERE does it say to check them once a week like tech Dept will say AFTER you battery fails.
As far as safety? Hmm my power tools go for years and don’t blow up? No fires. No smart discharge going on there.
I have normal RC lipos that sit for years and fire right up. No prob and they cost 40$.
If you can’t handle charging a regular lipo and you need a smart battery then they should offer you a 150$ battery and offer me a 50$ battery I charge myself.
As far as safety? Hmm my power tools go for years and don’t blow up? No fires. No smart discharge going on there.
I have normal RC lipos that sit for years and fire right up. No prob and they cost 40$.
If you can’t handle charging a regular lipo and you need a smart battery then they should offer you a 150$ battery and offer me a 50$ battery I charge myself.
Seriously? Lipo's are very picky. Do some research if you disagree.
In the old days, we used to run our cars or airplanes until the batteries died, then just set the batteries on the shelf at home, waiting for the next time we could use them. We just stored them dead. But you should never do that with LiPo batteries. Nor should LiPo batteries be stored at full charge, either. For the longest life of the batteries, LiPos should be stored at room temperature at 3.8V per cell. Most modern computerized chargers have a LiPo Storage function that will either charge the batteries up to that voltage, or discharge them down to that voltage, whichever is necessary.
The intelligent battery purpose is to dummy-proof battery storage, charge equalization, and simplify stand alone monitoring. Being able to determine the charge level with a push of a button saves tons of time and hassle. But I'm guessing the primary reason DJI adds intelligence to their battery designs is to capture 100% of the battery revenue. It's unlikely that will ever change.
N017RW
Premium Pilot
You have missed the point- thee is no way the battery would be 1/3 or the price without the smart electronics. That would be like expecting epson to sell printer cartridges cheaper without the chip built in. You are not paying for what the electronics are worth you are laying what DJI can squeeze out if you.
As to your dumb lipo’s being good after years of neglect did you actually test one to see what the run time was compared to new? You wouldn’t be able to tell what the available capacity, state if charge, health, time to empty when in use was that’s for sure. I’m confident the smart batteries can llook after themselves a lot better than you might a bare LiPO pack. My lower tools go for years as do my DJI AC batteries.
The smart electronics also prevent overcharge, over discharge, charging when temperature is too high. I really doubt that the smart electronics boards in each battery cost more than $5 in the quantity DJI buys them, and probably a lot less. I don't think it's a significant part of the retail price compared to a dumb battery with all the same characteristics, packaging, etc.
The materials include about 6 ICs, one being a TI microcontroller, on two stacked PCBs. The material cost is likely $10-15 with assembly.
How do you think people have been using RC vehicles before DJI made “smart for them” batteries?
Any 150$ charger for normal lipo batteries will do everything you just mentioned and a lot more at 1/4 of the price. I know you don’t wanna hear this but they are designed for a beginner that has no idea how lipos work in an attempt to make it foolproof. However it is not. They advertise as if the battery takes care of itself. It does not.
Your confident their batteries can do a better job that myself? So good that a 2 batteries that I used 18 flights and followed their directions exactly, discharged itself and is useless. Wow amazing technology. I don’t need to hear how I didn’t store them at the right temp and I didn’t check them twice a week blah blah. They sat in the case and were treated the exact way that every other lipo I ever have had was treated. They suck.
DJI replaced one of the batteries, a year after I bought the drone and it was no problem. With the second battery i received 3 different stories ranging from “yes that’s a problem send it in” to “no we only warranty it 6 months”. They have no idea wtf is going on.
The bottom line is that if you need to tell yourself that it’s totally worth paying triple because it’s super cool and has computers in it, no problem. I myself have made 50 or so lipo packs, from scratch, for my power tools, RC boats, planes and cars so I’m gonna rely on my past experience and decide that DJI is robbing everyone.
As the other guy pointed out, they could easily sell a pack that allows you to swap out the cells and keep the same computer but then they couldn’t screw you as hard on the price. Why do you think the sell lightbridge for the same price as a drone? If they did, everyone in the know would buy that for the $200 that it’s worth and make their own drone for half the money. They are business geniuses.
This year you will see them debut 3 new phantoms lol. Literally every 3 months
N017RW
Premium Pilot
The 'smarts' for the 'dumb' batteries are in the charger, True. Despite that dumb-batts. are responsible for some accidents.
Saying the DJI systems do not protect [beginners] from accidents is on you to validate. But I know it's tough to prove a negative so there's no rush.
As far as to what other options DJI has, how is that their fault?
You bought into it.
Saying the DJI systems do not protect [beginners] from accidents is on you to validate. But I know it's tough to prove a negative so there's no rush.
As far as to what other options DJI has, how is that their fault?
You bought into it.
Of course people made do wth bare LiPO packs, Nicad and other technologies. It required more effort and lacked the advantages realised by battery monitoring solutions.
Your $150 charger will serve you very well in charging and maintaining the packs on the ground- it won’t give you in flight telemetry. That is the real differentiator for the TI solution in our phantom packs. 99% accuracy in fuel gauging and a real indication of flight time to empty based on actual pack health and monitored fight conditions. The packs s take care if themselves- obviously they can’t connect themselves to a power supply to charge when needed or avoid flying to low capacity or in extreme conditions. Users still have a role to play obviously. The smarts do make them harder to kill though.
While you could have a bare LiPO and monitoring smarts in the AC you would loose important functionality. The LiPO cells are profiled and monitored from new realising significantly greater accuracy in condition and operating parameters. The monitoring solution is cheap.
If you want to implement your own lightbridge on the cheap buy a couple of raspberry pi’s and download the open source wifibroadcast SD card image. DJI will charge what they can get- that’s business. Just look at their flight controllers. Identical hardware with significantly differing prices based on the FW flashed- they aren’t the first and won’t be the last.
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The in fligt telemetry has nothing to do with the smart battery . Any 20$ Chinese flight controller will tell you your voltage and mah.
My problem with the smart technology is that it doesn’t work as advertised. 2 of my batteries were destroyed because I was lead to believe they were “smart”.
They self discharged to a voltage so low they are now useless. A normal lipo would not be dead in the amount of time my DJI batteries sat.
I’ll say it 100000x times over and over....power tools last YEARS in subzero temps, extreme heat, getting dropped, and sometimes sitting for months. They are just regular 8-12 18650 cells for 3$ each. 40$ total.
The guy above was right. I bought into the system, that was my mistake. Never again.
My Hyperion charger from 8 years ago allows my packs to stay connected non stop. Trickle charges when needed to keep them at the right voltage.
Why doesn’t DJI and their 150$ batteries do that now? Hmmmm
Why doesn’t DJI and their 150$ batteries do that now? Hmmmm
Hyperion makes the best Lipo chargers and lipos. I used this brand exclusively for years and years with zero problems. Never once put a “storage charge” on them. They always sat fully charged for sometimes months.... They would still, after years of abuse, out preform the latest and greatest brand new 1 million C batteries.
The smart batteries are a joke. The fuel gauge on the back is the only useful feature.
I discovered in another thread that the supplied charger is in fact not a charger. It’s a power supply or as some stated, a voltage booster, lol. Anyway, your paying for a new charger with each battery, on top of the other stuff in there.
It’s a complete marketing technique and has nothing to do with safety or longevity of the battery.
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