Agreed. They can certainly prevent anyone from operating from their land - in fact they can put up "No Trespass" signs and prevent anyone from even being on their land - but they still don't own the airspace above.
Why can’t I fly around this?
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Agreed. They can certainly prevent anyone from operating from their land - in fact they can put up "No Trespass" signs and prevent anyone from even being on their land - but they still don't own the airspace above.
I shot some footage around a newly constructed stadium here recently. It was done but four days from opening, it was at dusk, I parked on a public street and up I flew. Got the video I wanted at the Golden hour. JUST wrapping up when I see a guy walking gown the street literally whispering into his cuffed hand. I put my stuff away and closed the back of my suv. He quickly rushed around so that he could see my plate. I asked him, can I help you. He just backed away.
Got in car, started to drive away early guys came off the sidewalk to block my driving away and a car turned sideways at the street corner ahead. All plainclothes average looking dudes.
Of course I stop, made a “little adjustment to my position” in my seat then out window down a bit and asked, what’s up?
Guy flashes some kinda of badge from around his neck says he is stadium security, asks, was that my drone I was flying?
Yup
You aren’t allowed to fly that here, can guy step out.
Nope.
What you hiding?
Nothing, are any of you police?
What does that matter.
Are any of you police? Am I being detained.
Yes.
(Surprised) I am?! By whom.
Just talk to us.
Ok, that’s my drone, what did I do wrong?
You flew over our private construction site where we store our tools and supplies, you cannot do that. We want to see your drone and memory card.
No, not gonna happen. I’ll show you my FAA drone registration (sounds impressive to the uninformed) but I’m not talking chances?
He asks why?
I don’t know you guys.
Then he says, ready for this? I swear this is true: “Homeland security spotted you on camera and sent us, we can go and get them if you’d like. We are checking to make sure you do not have any incendiary devices you could drop by drone.”
Homeland security?
Yes, they have an office next to ours inside the stadium (I later found that this was true).
Finally i thought, let’s change the tone/direction. So, I put my gun back in it’s holster and I stepped out.
Opened the back and pulled the drone so they could see it. I told them I didn’t take any Photos or video, just flew around. We talked a bit more and then someone talked to them on radio and they suddenly just said, ok, you can go.
That’s the kinda crap that happens around here
(Excuse typos, didn’t proofread)
What argument? I don’t think so. Had I gone to youtube first send seen many drones taking videos of demos I would have likely not posted this message is all. I would still have researched but with a different initial opinion is all.
And as I keep saying, I’d still check for TFRs, no matter what the outcome of my research or this forum, so, bottom line I’m as safe as I can reasonably be.
I’m doing it because I think the video might look interesting and I want it in 4k, something I can’t get on tv or elsewhere, and my old eyes don’t feel like 4k anymore
To each his own.
I all along thought so but figured, why not post and ask in case someone had heard of such a restriction before.
Can't blame them. It's a stadium and you could have been flying a practice run for when it is full of people and you have some C4 or grenade strapped to it. They don't know you and Homeland Security takes this seriously, as it is an easy method to hurt a crowd of people -- which unfortunately a drone will be used for eventually I'm sure. They need to be proactive, and I'm glad they are. But stadium security is just a bunch of security guards with no power except to detain you for a police or Homeland Security investigation. It was nice of them to let you go since Homeland would have surely confiscated your drone during an investigation phase if they thought it important. Such is the life of a drone operator these days, especially one who operates around a new stadium around dark. Interesting account of your experience.
There are some guidelines on this. The following is from a Defense Technical Information Center publication on control of demolition operations. Note that the DOE Explosives Safety Manual has been superseded by DOE Explosives Safety STD-1212-2012, but contains the same language. It suggests that a TFR should be requested from the FAA before conducting such operations. Whether that is universally followed in practice is another question.
AVIATION WARNING REQUIREMENTS
The DOE Explosives Safety Manual( Chapter II, Section 13.3.1) requires the site to ensure that no aircraft can be risked being hit by any fragments from an explosive shot. One of the authors has actually spoken to a blaster who brought an aircraft out of the sky by hitting it with a fragment. Title 14 Code of Federal Regulation Part 91.137 (a)(1) requires the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator to establish a temporary flight restriction (TFR) for aircraft in order to "Protect persons and property on the surface or in the air from a hazard associated with an incident on the surface." The TFR prohibits aircraft from legally entering airspace that the Administrator has designated as being prohibited. The TFR identifies the location, size, and affected altitudes covered by the prohibited airspace and as well as the time period during which the TFR is in effect.
The FAA has interpreted explosive demolition as a hazard to aircraft. Therefore, when an organization is planning to conduct explosive demolitions they must notify the FAA in advance in order to allow the FAA time to establish a TFR. If you are planning to conduct an explosive demolition, then the following procedure should be followed:
1) Approximately four weeks prior to the demolition, contact the FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) closest to the demolition site;
2) Provide the following information to the FSDO:
- Proposed date and time of the demolition,
- latitude and longitude of the demolition site,
- total diameter of the area that may be affected around the demolition site,
- maximum altitude above ground level that may be affected by debris from the demolition, and
- name, title, and telephone number of the person responsible for site safety at the demolition site;
3) Assign a site safety officer with the responsibility for coordination with the FAA;
4) Designate aircraft spotters (at least 2) with the responsibility of looking for aircraft when the demolition will be conducted;
5) Establish clear communications procedures for alerting the site safety officer if aircraft are spotted in the demolition area and for delaying the demolition.
If you have any questions or require any assistance in your efforts with the FAA, contact Len Dzamba at (301) 903-7084.
This is actually a very easy requirement to meet fully, if it is planned early in the work cycle, and may be a help in keeping the media at a safe distance.
The DOE Explosives Safety Manual( Chapter II, Section 13.3.1) requires the site to ensure that no aircraft can be risked being hit by any fragments from an explosive shot. One of the authors has actually spoken to a blaster who brought an aircraft out of the sky by hitting it with a fragment. Title 14 Code of Federal Regulation Part 91.137 (a)(1) requires the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator to establish a temporary flight restriction (TFR) for aircraft in order to "Protect persons and property on the surface or in the air from a hazard associated with an incident on the surface." The TFR prohibits aircraft from legally entering airspace that the Administrator has designated as being prohibited. The TFR identifies the location, size, and affected altitudes covered by the prohibited airspace and as well as the time period during which the TFR is in effect.
The FAA has interpreted explosive demolition as a hazard to aircraft. Therefore, when an organization is planning to conduct explosive demolitions they must notify the FAA in advance in order to allow the FAA time to establish a TFR. If you are planning to conduct an explosive demolition, then the following procedure should be followed:
1) Approximately four weeks prior to the demolition, contact the FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) closest to the demolition site;
2) Provide the following information to the FSDO:
- Proposed date and time of the demolition,
- latitude and longitude of the demolition site,
- total diameter of the area that may be affected around the demolition site,
- maximum altitude above ground level that may be affected by debris from the demolition, and
- name, title, and telephone number of the person responsible for site safety at the demolition site;
3) Assign a site safety officer with the responsibility for coordination with the FAA;
4) Designate aircraft spotters (at least 2) with the responsibility of looking for aircraft when the demolition will be conducted;
5) Establish clear communications procedures for alerting the site safety officer if aircraft are spotted in the demolition area and for delaying the demolition.
If you have any questions or require any assistance in your efforts with the FAA, contact Len Dzamba at (301) 903-7084.
This is actually a very easy requirement to meet fully, if it is planned early in the work cycle, and may be a help in keeping the media at a safe distance.
Like I’ve said, I started with the assumption that there would be a TFR. And I’ll be checking up to the last minute. I mean, it wouldn’t make sense for them to issue a TFR at, say, 8 am if the blast is at 8:30 am so I feel sure if there is one it should be issued at least hours before. If it’s 8 am and there isn’t one, that seems safe to me.
Also, if in fact, a TFR was issued for all big blasts, there are hundreds done a year all over the country and yet i can’t find even one.
Thank you everyone for your input. I’ll be heading there and playing it careful
Also, if in fact, a TFR was issued for all big blasts, there are hundreds done a year all over the country and yet i can’t find even one.
Thank you everyone for your input. I’ll be heading there and playing it careful
The Pontiac Silverdome is undergoing a partial controlled demolition this Sunday morning.
I don’t see a TFR and there are no other NFZ nearby. It’s an, obviously, abandoned building, despite once having been a nation sports field so those concerns should be void.
I’ve searched online and not found any mention of drones vs controlled demo. There are areas all around the dome and it’s parking lot where one could park and take off then fly to a nice vantage point to record what happens.
I spent the position will be somewhere outside the actual property outline of the structure and it’s parking lot and at an angle, I don’t expect a need to fly over the stadium.
I know for a fact News choppers will be streaming it live.
So, I can’t see any reason why I can’t. I need to stay away from the choppers, clearly.
Any think of any reason I should be concerned?
(It’s so common here for private security (not cops) to come by and state as fact, you cannot fly here, you absolutely cannot take photos/video here and give me your memory card ... Or Else! As the imagery I’m getting is far less valuable than the cost of most legal entanglements I usually just land, state I didn’t record anything and drive away as polite and quiet as I can)
Side thought: I’d be shocked if the wireless detonators sometimes used by CD projects would be affected by traffic in the 2.4ghz range. That’s just too obvious to have been overlooked.
Your main problem is that manned aircraft (Helicopters) will be in the air.
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Mmm noooo I was just wondering if anyone in this forum had any knowledge or experience with such settings?
I don’t see this as risky at all! I won’t be breaking any rules or laws, if there isn’t a TFR then I’m free to use the airspace just as I would any other time. And sharing airspace with a helicopter is sometimes what one does covering a news item, you show them respect and keep a distance and just obey the rules.
Just seeing prior knowledge and it appears no has any to share so I’ll happily share my own for others benefit.
Man, why always such pessimism?
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No, I never claimed that. And, what would that have to do with (checks name of forum) piloting my phantom? Lol!
I’ve shot material subsequently used by local news. Usually a “local interest” piece like when an anchor was lifted from the riverbed or the USS Detroit came in to be commissioned. Etc. I am not a news journalist/reporter. I don’t think doing the above qualified me as such.
I’m a pilot asking about piloting, are their differences for a reporter?
I’m a pilot asking about piloting, are their differences for a reporter?
Got in touch with someone related to a local operation contracted to film the whole thing officially. Summary of reply: zero concerns whatsoever. Fly per usual. Common sense rules apply: if they are in the middle of their countdown don’t suddenly fly into the middle of the scene, while technically legal you will become very unwelcome.
Sounds like there will be several fliers already there but only one permitted inside the bowl (must be flown from literally inside the stadium walls due to signal loss). Rapidly losing interest, I don’t think I’ll get much or anything unique. Plus they are only demo’ing a portion, not the whole thing. Yawner.
But it did provide us all with some info. You guys worry too much lol
Sounds like there will be several fliers already there but only one permitted inside the bowl (must be flown from literally inside the stadium walls due to signal loss). Rapidly losing interest, I don’t think I’ll get much or anything unique. Plus they are only demo’ing a portion, not the whole thing. Yawner.
But it did provide us all with some info. You guys worry too much lol
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Ok, probably 50-60 phantoms in the air, about a dozen inspires, 4 helicopters, and a plane keeps buzzing around. Cops don’t care, they ask questions like civvies.
ACTUALLY: the beams that were intended to be cut did get cut -- but the upper bowl just didn't fall in! Technically it worked but not quite as intended. The demo crew are literally just waiting for gravity to finish the job, they tell us. Meanwhile we're waiting for something worth recording.
What they didn't tell us until quite late (i.e., already there) is that from the ground level outside it wouldn't look like much, just lots of smoke and debris because it was only the interior bowl that was coming down, not the entire structure.
So, I can't call it a bust because at least we all got to "discuss" CD, TFRs and drone flights. Just adding to our database of info was also my goal.
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The New York Times reports;
"...Rick Cuppetilli, executive vice president of Adamo, told The Free Press that about 10 percent of the explosives had failed to detonate because of faulty wiring. Those charges, installed in eight locations, were supposed to demolish the steel columns supporting the stadium’s upper level. Depending on the cause of the wiring problem, he added, Adamo may set off the un-exploded charges later this week or take down the columns by other means."
IDK...sounds like a fail to me. Nice photo!
"...Rick Cuppetilli, executive vice president of Adamo, told The Free Press that about 10 percent of the explosives had failed to detonate because of faulty wiring. Those charges, installed in eight locations, were supposed to demolish the steel columns supporting the stadium’s upper level. Depending on the cause of the wiring problem, he added, Adamo may set off the un-exploded charges later this week or take down the columns by other means."
IDK...sounds like a fail to me. Nice photo!
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