The PD checked my FAA numbers on my Drone !

I've already posted this link earlier in the thread...

(d) CERTIFICATES AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION.— An operator of an aircraft shall make available for inspection a certificate of registration for the aircraft when requested by a United States Government, State, or local law enforcement officer

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...itleVII-partA-subpartiii-chap441-sec44103.pdf
Thanks, that's just what I was looking for...

...sort of. ;-) I see a few problems.

(not writing this all out to brow-beat anyone, but to help me and everyone else understand what's going on as I go along)

Also for the masses, the USC is where lawmaking gets a rest stop before getting into the CFR. SO if you want actual regulations, you need to dig into the CFR not the USC.

First, 49 CFR is a Transportation section. I know it well, for reasons that are off-topic here (NHTSA, FMVSS, etc.). § 44103 is under the Air Commerce and Safety heading. Hello... these recreational drones are not transport craft. It definitely applies to aircraft meeting the requirements in section 44102 which is quite broad. Yet Chapter 441 seems to have absolutely no direct relevance to sUAS operation and the fees listed in § 45302 do not mention sUA or sUAS operator registrations of any kind. The only thing that ties to sUA/sUAS is the rather all-encompassing definition of aircraft, which pretty much covers everything from an Antonov AN-225 to a paper airplane.

At that point - definitions - we get to § 336 a.k.a. the SRMA (Special Rule for Model Aircraft). Now don't get too caught up in the reference to Public Law 112-95. Public Law is how amendments are made to the USC/CFR. The PL itself is not the law or regulation. Anyway, PL 112-95 is where model aircraft and hobby/recreational flight was defined. To me that separates model aircraft clearly, especially when considering that hobby sUAS pilots need not have airman's certificates or adhere to rigorous pre-flight routines. And the wording from § 336 now appears verbatim in 14 CFR 101.41, with the definition of model aircraft.

Many of us will recall the SRMA being the center of the legal action that temporarily halted the FAA's requirement to register hobby drones. And those of us who like legal irony might amuse ourselves with the fawning over community based safety guidelines while not actually requiring membership with organizations such as the AMA. But 14 CFR (read: Part 101) has a separate definition for model aircraft. But that doesn't cover registration. Before I move on, I find it interesting that model aircraft is defined two ways, separately, by intent and characteristics of the flight as well as the weight of the craft.

So then there is the FAA notice specifying that 14 CFR 47 and 48 - 48 being for the on-line system - stipulate the sUAS registration processes (but insist that the term aircraft still is governed by § 44101(a), LOL). The same notice states that certifications must be available to LE on demand. But at the risk of being indignant, that notice still isn't a law or regulation.

So I'm gonna skip Part 47. Its talk of N-format numbers makes it clear it has nothing to do with recreational sUAS registration and by the way, it refers back to § 44101-44104, furthering my assertion that 49 CFR has diddly to do with sUAS. Let's go to 48.

14 CFR 48 talks about small unmanned aircraft. Which looks a lot like model aircraft but somehow not with the two-part definition. Then § 48.100(b) is where we find the fees that we're paying to register our recreational drones. Woohoo. And for those of you who are arguing about where to place the registration markings, that's in § 48.205. § 48.105 demands that registration information remains current. § 48.115 defines validity, renewal cycles, etc. But Unlike 49 CFR Chapter 441, nothing in Part 48 says anything about needing to produce a certificate upon demand.

Looks to me like if they really wanted us to carry those certificates, someone screwed up and forgot to include that in the legislative process for Part 48. Keeping the relevant regulation in 49 CFR seems constitutionally vague to me.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer - I only play one on TV.
 
Just saw this on their website... Apparently, none around me accept D-NAS... as I never see “Accepts Digital Notice” on my AirMap Flight submissions..

”Is creating a flight the same as submitting Digital Notice?

Creating a flight in the AirMap application is not the same as submitting Digital Notice to an airport. This is because digital notice may not be the preferred method of contact for certain airports. Submitting Digital Notice when appropriate, while encouraged, is not always required. Airspace near airports that utilize D-NAS will show a "Accepts Digital Notice" Under the Airport name in the AirMap mobile application. “
D-NAS?
 
Since we can presume that all LEO's have a copy of the LEO Guidance Card, right or wrong, best to keep them happy by adhering to what it says they may do upon request. Best not to argue with a man in a uniform, with a badge, the Card, and a gun! :cool:
 
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I tend to agree GG. If and when I’m pulled over by a LEO when driving, I am happy to show them my drivers license, registration, and for good measure my CCW card (concealed carry weapon permit). This way, there are NO misunderstandings that I am legally armed.

How we proceed from there is up to the LEO. It’s their call......and they are just doing their job. So far, no issues. And that’s a good thing. [emoji106]
 
I tend to agree GG. If and when I’m pulled over by a LEO when driving, I am happy to show them my drivers license, registration, and for good measure my CCW card (concealed carry weapon permit). This way, there are NO misunderstandings that I am legally armed.

How we proceed from there is up to the LEO. It’s their call......and they are just doing their job. So far, no issues. And that’s a good thing. [emoji106]


Well played sir. Text book procedure there.
 
It's my understanding that they're not supposed to interrupt your flight unless you're in violation. They're supposed to wait until you land.

And that makes sense since once you land, that battery is no good for flying without a recharge.

Also - somebody once posted that a LEO doesn't have the right to ask for anything without a violation, regardless of whether he waits. Some kind of constitutional issue.

That's what I wonder too... What authority do they have checking the FAA number on a drone which is considered an aircraft? Do they go to the airport and issue tickets to airplanes and pilots there? Also, don't they need probable cause to stop you and ask? In most cases they need reasonable suspicion that you have commited a crime before stopping you and asking for ID.
 
I posted this earlier in the thread:

While it is often mentioned and link is provided, I have rarely if ever seen the actual verbiage of the “LEO card“ text posted. It deserves some examination. Starting with the first line, it reads:

“If you suspect a UAS operation is unsafe or unauthorized”:.......

In law enforcement world, “suspicion“ is never legal justification to arrest or otherwise detain an individual. This is not an opinion, this is the law. The above text should read “if you reasonably suspect“. This is not an interpretation or parsing of words, it is the LAW. This is the universal standard and has been since the Constitution was adopted over 200 years ago. While a police officer acting under the color of authority can ask you to do anything he wants voluntarily, he can only require you to do something if he or shereasonably suspect you of breaking a law and even then the 5th amendment allows you to decline. At that point (if you decline), the police officer’s only recourse is to place you under arrest and let the system take over. Moral of the story, it is always your choice how to proceed when interacting with police not theirs. Some on this forum Characterize this as being “anti-cops” while others characterize it as standing up for our rights. Fortunately that pesky 1st amendment allows both schools of thought. Not that anyone asked me but RKBAs choice is a simple one..... if a police officer approaches me while operating my drone and asks me to do something, I am going to ask them a question: “why are you asking me?“ If their answer doesn’t include that they reasonably suspect my UAS Operation is unsafe or unauthorized ( using the exact words written on the little card they are holding), I will politely decline and go on my way.

Welcome to the United States ofAmerica
 
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Just want to give my 2 cents, being retired Law Enforcement. The first line "i was at a nice local PUBLIC park" gives the officer a lot of leeway. More than likely they have a policy about Drones in parks and they were told to check for registration if they see someone. After 30+ years VERY few officers are looking to do MORE paperwork, so he was probably just following what he was told because some gray haired councilwoman dreamed about 200 lb drones falling from the sky. Do you have to land immediately? Yes, because you are in a public park, and parks have all kinds of rules you may not know about. Especially if the park had other people playing, or an expectation of others being around, or cars parked nearby, or a kid with a kite, etc...or he could just say he was concerned you were not a safe operator, and that justifies you landing immediately. So, why not comply? Really, it's nothing to just land, show the paperwork, and fly on. Yes, you can try and make it hard on the officer, but why? Cops are just like you. When you run into that one jerk that wants to make your life difficult, are you really going to treat them the same? He can legally detain you for 45 minutes under "Reasonable Suspicion" while he researches the law, which is a lot lighter than "Probable Cause", and he is allowed to legally detain you under "reasonable suspicion". So, he decides to put you in his car (that is solely up to him). If you are being aggressive he can even put you in cuffs. Before putting you in his car he can do a full search of you for "Officer Safety". Do you start to understand how difficult he can make life for you? Do you want to sit in back of a patrol car for 45 minutes? He can even use the "Disturbing the Peace" law, which is written overly broad on purpose, to arrest and book you, if it goes that far. Why?

Trust me, they don't want to do any of that, they would just like to see your paperwork, so when his sergeant calls him he can say he looked into it and everything was fine, so he can tell whoever called him the same thing.
 
Just want to give my 2 cents, being retired Law Enforcement. The first line "i was at a nice local PUBLIC park" gives the officer a lot of leeway. More than likely they have a policy about Drones in parks and they were told to check for registration if they see someone. After 30+ years VERY few officers are looking to do MORE paperwork, so he was probably just following what he was told because some gray haired councilwoman dreamed about 200 lb drones falling from the sky. Do you have to land immediately? Yes, because you are in a public park, and parks have all kinds of rules you may not know about. Especially if the park had other people playing, or an expectation of others being around, or cars parked nearby, or a kid with a kite, etc...or he could just say he was concerned you were not a safe operator, and that justifies you landing immediately. So, why not comply? Really, it's nothing to just land, show the paperwork, and fly on. Yes, you can try and make it hard on the officer, but why? Cops are just like you. When you run into that one jerk that wants to make your life difficult, are you really going to treat them the same? He can legally detain you for 45 minutes under "Reasonable Suspicion" while he researches the law, which is a lot lighter than "Probable Cause", and he is allowed to legally detain you under "reasonable suspicion". So, he decides to put you in his car (that is solely up to him). If you are being aggressive he can even put you in cuffs. Before putting you in his car he can do a full search of you for "Officer Safety". Do you start to understand how difficult he can make life for you? Do you want to sit in back of a patrol car for 45 minutes? He can even use the "Disturbing the Peace" law, which is written overly broad on purpose, to arrest and book you, if it goes that far. Why?

Trust me, they don't want to do any of that, they would just like to see your paperwork, so when his sergeant calls him he can say he looked into it and everything was fine, so he can tell whoever called him the same thing.
Wow...... just wow! Where does one even start with this
 
Just want to give my 2 cents, being retired Law Enforcement. The first line "i was at a nice local PUBLIC park" gives the officer a lot of leeway. More than likely they have a policy about Drones in parks and they were told to check for registration if they see someone. After 30+ years VERY few officers are looking to do MORE paperwork, so he was probably just following what he was told because some gray haired councilwoman dreamed about 200 lb drones falling from the sky. Do you have to land immediately? Yes, because you are in a public park, and parks have all kinds of rules you may not know about. Especially if the park had other people playing, or an expectation of others being around, or cars parked nearby, or a kid with a kite, etc...or he could just say he was concerned you were not a safe operator, and that justifies you landing immediately. So, why not comply? Really, it's nothing to just land, show the paperwork, and fly on. Yes, you can try and make it hard on the officer, but why? Cops are just like you. When you run into that one jerk that wants to make your life difficult, are you really going to treat them the same? He can legally detain you for 45 minutes under "Reasonable Suspicion" while he researches the law, which is a lot lighter than "Probable Cause", and he is allowed to legally detain you under "reasonable suspicion". So, he decides to put you in his car (that is solely up to him). If you are being aggressive he can even put you in cuffs. Before putting you in his car he can do a full search of you for "Officer Safety". Do you start to understand how difficult he can make life for you? Do you want to sit in back of a patrol car for 45 minutes? He can even use the "Disturbing the Peace" law, which is written overly broad on purpose, to arrest and book you, if it goes that far. Why?

Trust me, they don't want to do any of that, they would just like to see your paperwork, so when his sergeant calls him he can say he looked into it and everything was fine, so he can tell whoever called him the same thing.


Outstanding reply IMHO. Take the 2 minutes and resolve the matter. Who knows he might have a genuine interest in UAS and want to get one and be your flying buddy.
 
Outstanding reply IMHO. Take the 2 minutes and resolve the matter. Who knows he might have a genuine interest in UAS and want to get one and be your flying buddy.
Be nice to the cops. They have a very difficult job to do. They are far more your friend than your enemy! Make friends with them, and then they will be there for you when you truly need them! :cool:
 
Just want to give my 2 cents, being retired Law Enforcement. The first line "i was at a nice local PUBLIC park" gives the officer a lot of leeway. More than likely they have a policy about Drones in parks and they were told to check for registration if they see someone. After 30+ years VERY few officers are looking to do MORE paperwork, so he was probably just following what he was told because some gray haired councilwoman dreamed about 200 lb drones falling from the sky. Do you have to land immediately? Yes, because you are in a public park, and parks have all kinds of rules you may not know about. Especially if the park had other people playing, or an expectation of others being around, or cars parked nearby, or a kid with a kite, etc...or he could just say he was concerned you were not a safe operator, and that justifies you landing immediately. So, why not comply? Really, it's nothing to just land, show the paperwork, and fly on. Yes, you can try and make it hard on the officer, but why? Cops are just like you. When you run into that one jerk that wants to make your life difficult, are you really going to treat them the same? He can legally detain you for 45 minutes under "Reasonable Suspicion" while he researches the law, which is a lot lighter than "Probable Cause", and he is allowed to legally detain you under "reasonable suspicion". So, he decides to put you in his car (that is solely up to him). If you are being aggressive he can even put you in cuffs. Before putting you in his car he can do a full search of you for "Officer Safety". Do you start to understand how difficult he can make life for you? Do you want to sit in back of a patrol car for 45 minutes? He can even use the "Disturbing the Peace" law, which is written overly broad on purpose, to arrest and book you, if it goes that far. Why?

Trust me, they don't want to do any of that, they would just like to see your paperwork, so when his sergeant calls him he can say he looked into it and everything was fine, so he can tell whoever called him the same thing.
Very well explained! Thanks for being on the job! :cool:
Many preventable arrests are solely due to attitude! Show LEO's respect and they will show you respect, and are less likely to make a mistake that might cost you your life!
 
Absent probable cause (a violation of state or local ordinance) LE was likely out of line asking you to terminate the flight. Mistakes will be made by LE, but they’ll catch on quickly once a few judges rule on UAS cases. There are too many foolish operators out there and we obviously need some oversight. Let’s just hope the learning curve is steep enough that not too many of us get burned badly with fines or worse before we catch on with the intent of Part 107.
 
Be nice to the cops. They have a very difficult job to do. They are far more your friend than your enemy! Make friends with them, and then they will be there for you when you truly need them! :cool:
So True!!!!!!! U just never know.
All, if not most, LEO has to follow any complaint by way of phone call to the police station. Then the police station make call to the officer who is protrolling the desnidated area. The officer will respond to that call that has been made. So, having said that, if any police officer shows up wherever I am flying, I am assuming first it is a complaint from an individual who has no education, interest, or just plan ignorance about the drone industry. I will be very happy to assist the officer in any matter pertaining the complaint he has received. Second, if not, he may have just shown up to know more about the drone, ask questions, or just like to watch, which I'll be greatly happy to have him around, and just maybe, let him have try a fly................;)
 
LEO has to follow any complaint by way of phone call to the police station. Then the police station make call to the officer who is protrolling the desnidated area. The officer will respond to that call that has been made

In the US, law enforcement is NOT legally obligated to respond to anything. Not saying they don’t respond the vast majority of the time but it’s completely at their discretion up to and including felony calls. They have complete legal immunity. That’s why you never see police agencies or individual cops sued civilly. If they hassle you it’s because they want to hassle you.
 
If they hassle you it’s because they want to hassle you.
If you are being hassled, it is most likely because of your attitude. They do have a lot of discretion, so any attitude from you can result in an attitude arrest, where legitimate charges are piled on that otherwise might have never been filed. Be nice and be polite to the officer. Maybe you won't get hassled next time! :cool:
 
Some people will fook themselves just to show you how smart they are.
 

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