Pursuing a refund - Flyaway not found...

[Leon001]

Steve

I'm about done with this and you. I explained my role. I'm forum support and testing. I do work for dji but this forum is not one of my responsibilities. I choose to come here because there are some outstanding users. I don't do this for the money, I already have a job that pays very well. I do this because I love the hobby and dji.

I already said I looked at the logs and there was nothing I could comment on... Maybe I should have posted that. But now anyone thag wants to look at logs is now required to comment? Come on how petty can one be? I'm not into speculation and would need more tools to see stick inputs and such. These tool are only accessible from a dji location, on a dji network.

I am sorry. And I am being sincere when I say that.

I'll say one last time that I presumed that you were paid to be here. Additionally I DID have my back up because of the other comments I'd read about support. This is what I meant by understanding what I was saying so that we might get on.

As a new user, with a bad experience, and reading bad reviews about DJI support (those being my only inputs), your response wasn't optimal. All I wanted was an understanding of that ***once you brought me to understand your perspective***. IE. you're not here in the capacity of a paid employee, and so of-course you're not absolutely required to comment on my logs, although it would have been nice.

I think if we all take a step back we can find some common ground.

Again, my apologies.

 

[Leon001]

Leon,
What is the search pattern pattern that you are using to find your bird? Did you lay out Google Maps and superimpose a grid? Put an ad in the local paper, or in local store windows? Find someone with a P3 to fly over where you believe the bird went? Seem you have been on the computer all the time. Did you facebook your friends?

There are several local facebook groups with several thousand members each that I have posted to with pictures and a reward for locating the drone, dead or alive. I have searched on foot the area that the drone log stopped (within an hour of the fly-way) and Streve's highlighted area (Today). I will be posting flyers door-to-door tomorrow.

I've been on a mixture of my phone and laptop over the past 24 hours.

 

[blade strike]

I am sorry. And I am being sincere when I say that.

I'll say one last time that I presumed that you were paid to be here. Additionally I DID have my back up because of the other comments I'd read about support. This is what I meant by understanding what I was saying so that we might get on.

As a new user, with a bad experience, and reading bad reviews about DJI support (those being my only inputs), your response wasn't optimal. All I wanted was an understanding of that ***once you brought me to understand your perspective***. IE. you're not here in the capacity of a paid employee, and so of-course you're not absolutely required to comment on my logs, although it would have been nice.

I think if we all take a step back we can find some common ground.

Again, my apologies.

No reason to apologize.. Please get a case ID and I will do my best to help out. If there was a smoking gun I would have commented but without the proper tools I just moved on.. I apologize for that and will try not to let it happen again. I understand DJI support isn't up to peoples standards and I agree with that. They are changing and have done a lot of improvement over the last year. Still this is one area that needs some serious work...

When I was at the new repair facility 2 weeks ago I learned that dealers can not process users RMA's or claims. This is why I want you to start the process, until then no one can really help or forward your concerns to the proper people.

I understand that forums and our support can be a little confusing but in all honesty we are only here to help in trouble shooting an issue anything more needs to be logged into the support system.

Just so you know I have been flying, driving and hovering things for 30 years...I do my best at what I do, but I am human and not perfect, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

 

[Leon001]

No reason to apologize.. Please get a case ID and I will do my best to help out. If there was a smoking gun I would have commented but without the proper tools I just moved on.. I apologize for that and will try not to let it happen again. I understand DJI support isn't up to peoples standards and I agree with that. They are changing and have done a lot of improvement over the last year. Still this is one area that needs some serious work...

When I was at the new repair facility 2 weeks ago I learned that dealers can not process users RMA's or claims. This is why I want you to start the process, until then no one can really help or forward your concerns to the proper people.

I understand that forums and our support can be a little confusing but in all honesty we are only here to help in trouble shooting an issue anything more needs to be logged into the support system.

Just so you know I have been flying, driving and hovering things for 30 years...I do my best at what I do, but I am human and not perfect, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

I appreciate that.

I've never experienced DJI support before, only read about it. Maybe I have been victim of confirmation bias on this occasion.

What I hope is that I can get things sorted and then have the opportunity to learn from everyone here. There's a lot of experience flying around.

Thanks

 

[GadgetGuy]

I will chime in here about my own DJI warranty replacement. I also bought my original P3P from a local dealer. After the crash, which I knew I could document as a warranty failure, I immediately bought a replacement P3P from the local dealer, with the understanding that if DJI replaced my original unit, they would refund my purchase price on the second, because I knew the process of replacement or repair would take some 6+ weeks, and I wanted to get right back to flying! Unlike the OP, I did get very lucky and find the crashed aircraft, but the camera and gimbal were nowhere to be found and are still missing to this day, ripped off on impact on a tile roof, according to the map. I was able to recover the .DAT file from the aircraft and a graphic rendering of it from mapsmadeeasy.com, as well as the recorded 4K video from the micro SD card, and the Log file on the tablet. Armed with those four items, I called DJI support in Los Angeles and opened an RMA ticket. The rep insisted I had to send in the aircraft before anything could be done, and then in 6 weeks they would make a determination, after examining the aircraft. I refused to send it in until agreement could first be reached on the cause of the crash, because I had all the electronic data that would establish the cause available to send attached to an email immediately. No need to send in the aircraft except for corroberation and wait 6 weeks for someone to "look" at it. Eventually, a support manager took over the case, and agreed with me. He requested all the files, I emailed them to him, and two days later, he agreed to an expedited RMA warranty repair with a 3-5 business day turnaround, after receipt of the unit. However, he said I would either receive a refurbished unit or a repair on mine, and not a new unit, if I sent him my crashed unit. I told him that was unacceptable, as I wouldn't accept someone else's refurbished/crashed drone, which might still have hidden defects that might cause premature failure over water, leading to no recovery! He told me that if I had bought it directly from DJI, he could replace it with a new one, but since I bought it from a dealer, only my dealer could get a new one from their dealer channel rep. Obviously, I needed a new one to replace the new stock of my dealer for my refund.

Armed with the 3-5 Business Day Expedited RMA Warranty Repair Order from DJI, I went back to my dealer, who then accepted my drone carcass and ruined battery, and submitted it to their sales rep. A week later, they received a new unit in exchange, and refunded my original purchase price on the first unit.

So, listen to Blade Strike! He knows whereof he speaks! The end user must open the RMA first, not the dealer! If I hadn't laid the groundwork myself first, with DJI, and wrapped it up in a pretty bow for the dealer, I would have been SOL with someone else's refurbished crashed drone, instead of another new one in a box!

Over 9 hours, 350,000 feet, and 84 flights on the replacement P3P!

Good luck with your replacement. I hope you find the unit. It makes replacement so much easier. If I hadn't found mine, I wouldn't have had much of a leg to stand on.

 

[Leon001]

@Leon001 I When I sent the image with the circled area I had crunched some # really quick to determine a near dead battery. But that was based on your log file converted and dropped into google earth. That was showing a final altitude of 400 and some feet. I still cant figure out why that data is different that the .csv data. The final altitude could vary, by several hundred yards, the final resting point. Basically... battery drop over a given time. Then use that to determine time remaining based on final recorded battery level minus the auto land setting at that altitude and distance from home point... roughly 10 minutes.... then extend the flight path along the same arc, at last recorded speed. Still have to add about 12% battery remaining till it lands.

All just a wild guess! IF it kept up the same path, the math could lead you to with 50 feet of so. But its final few minutes of flight, once auto land took over, could have done almost anything. Thats why a recovered birds log file that had the same kind of fly away would be helpful.

I wonder if any one else can account for the discrepancy between the two altitudes?

If I ever find this drone I'll make sure you get the log and video so you can work out what happened exactly.

 

[Leon001]

I will chime in here about my own DJI warranty replacement. I also bought my original P3P from a local dealer. After the crash, which I knew I could document as a warranty failure, I immediately bought a replacement P3P from the local dealer, with the understanding that if DJI replaced my original unit, they would refund my purchase price on the second, because I knew the process of replacement or repair would take some 6+ weeks, and I wanted to get right back to flying! Unlike the OP, I did get very lucky and find the crashed aircraft, but the camera and gimbal were nowhere to be found and are still missing to this day, ripped off on impact on a tile roof, according to the map. I was able to recover the .DAT file from the aircraft and a graphic rendering of it from mapsmadeeasy.com, as well as the recorded 4K video from the micro SD card, and the Log file on the tablet. Armed with those four items, I called DJI support in Los Angeles and opened an RMA ticket. The rep insisted I had to send in the aircraft before anything could be done, and then in 6 weeks they would make a determination, after examining the aircraft. I refused to send it in until agreement could first be reached on the cause of the crash, because I had all the electronic data that would establish the cause available to send attached to an email immediately. No need to send in the aircraft except for corroberation and wait 6 weeks for someone to "look" at it. Eventually, a support manager took over the case, and agreed with me. He requested all the files, I emailed them to him, and two days later, he agreed to an expedited RMA warranty repair with a 3-5 business day turnaround, after receipt of the unit. However, he said I would either receive a refurbished unit or a repair on mine, and not a new unit, if I sent him my crashed unit. I told him that was unacceptable, as I wouldn't accept someone else's refurbished/crashed drone, which might still have hidden defects that might cause premature failure over water, leading to no recovery! He told me that if I had bought it directly from DJI, he could replace it with a new one, but since I bought it from a dealer, only my dealer could get a new one from their dealer channel rep. Obviously, I needed a new one to replace the new stock of my dealer for my refund.

Armed with the 3-5 Business Day Expedited RMA Warranty Repair Order from DJI, I went back to my dealer, who then accepted my drone carcass and ruined battery, and submitted it to their sales rep. A week later, they received a new unit in exchange, and refunded my original purchase price on the first unit.

So, listen to Bladestrike! He knows whereof he speaks! The end user must open the RMA first, not the dealer! If I hadn't laid the groundwork myself first, with DJI, and wrapped it up in a pretty bow for the dealer, I would have been SOL with someone else's refurbished crashed drone, instead of another new one in a box!

Over 9 hours, 350,000 feet, and 84 flights on the replacement P3P!

Good luck with your replacement. I hope you find the unit. It makes replacement so much easier. If I hadn't found mine, I wouldn't have had much of a leg to stand on.

I'll call support when they open. I fear this will be too late though.

Seriously speaking, it shouldn't make a difference. But saying that, since when have we lived in such an ideal world... mmh.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'll call support when they open. I fear this will be too late though.

Seriously speaking, it shouldn't make a difference. But saying that, since when have we lived in such an ideal world... mmh.

My crash is how I first found this forum, so I feel for you! There is a wealth of wisdom here, if you can parse through the static to get to the messages from the wise, like blade strike. It's never too late to open your support ticket. The outcome will be more dependent upon your skills of persuasion, with the facts you have, than anything else. With no aircraft, there is no 6 week wait for a spot to open up on a workbench, so use that to your advantage with the information you do have. Insist upon an escalation to a manager, if you meet with resistance from the initial rep. Persuade the manager and you are golden. Once you get a replacement, whether new or refurbished, pay attention to that red arrow on the map during warmup, and before launch. If it is misaligned with the nose of the aircraft, do not takeoff, until it does! I learned that the hard way with my second P3P! All better now!

 

[Leon001]

Lets see what the guys over at http://forum.dji.com//forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=27283&page=1&extra=&mobile=yes#pid186527 have to say has happened to my P3.

 

[Leon001]

I might have a lead on a propeller! Just waiting for them to confirm my description....

 

[GadgetGuy]

Lets see what the guys over at http://forum.dji.com//forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=27283&page=1&extra=&mobile=yes#pid186527 have to say has happened to my P3.

One advantage of buying a second P3P is you could do an aerial search for the first one in places you can't see from the ground, and that others can't see from the ground, like their rooftops and the tops of their trees. Just don't add insult to injury by crashing the reconnaissance drone! Eventually, if you continue with this hobby, you'll need a second one anyway, regardless if the disposition with DJI. That was how I looked at it. Worst case scenario, I would end up with two, and eventually I would need the second one anyway. Stuff happens. Like airplanes, you only get so many hours of flying time before they need to be completely overhauled, or, in our case, replaced. Figure $20 per hour of flying time. Breakeven is about 65 hours. After that, you are on bonus time!

 

[GadgetGuy]

I might have a lead on a propeller! Just waiting for them to confirm my description....

Sounds like tracking down the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370! Good luck!

 

[kdrak]

One advantage of buying a second P3P is you could do an aerial search for the first one in places you can't see from the ground, and that others can't see from the ground,

or may by you will need a third one in case you lost the first two Phantoms just kidding,

You are very right a second one is an investment

 

[Leon001]

Sounds like tracking down the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370! Good luck!

nah, it's not my prop. It's greeny blue and like a rudder they say.

 

[ianwood]

Any further posts in this thread should be about the actual flyaway and not why someone is or isn't a joke. That is all.

 

[Leon001]

Hey pm me . There's a couple much better places to get information from guys who have been doing this for years.

Sorry about the late response atki.

Where do you suggest?

 

[BudWalker]

My apologies for hijacking this thread with a technical question.

Unless I'm missing something it's at least possible that there was no compass error and the P3 was mistaken about where it thought it was supposed to be. I saw the post observing that the direction of flight was different than the heading. But, this happens while the P3 is hovering in P-GPS mode since it is repeatedly moving back to where it's supposed to be. It doesn't yaw around to point where it's supposed to be and then move forward,i.e. it's flight direction is independent of it's heading. All I'm claiming is that it's at least possible that there was no compass error.

But, is it possible to determine the P3 heading from the flight data that is independent from the measured compass heading? I'm attempting to do this by writing a program that computes speed and heading from OSD.longitude and OSD.latitude and then comparing that to OSD.xSpeed, OSD.ySpeed, and OSD.headingCompass. The problem is that OSD.xSpeed and OSD.ySpeed may have already been derived from (i.e. is dependent on) OSD.longitude, OSD.latitude. Does anybody know where OSD.xSpeed and OSD.ySpeed come from? In the program that I wrote it does seem like OSD.xSpeed and OSD.ySpeed are independent of OSD.latitude and OSD.longitude. It'd be nice if they were somehow derived from IMU measurements, although I don't see how this is possible.

What is OSD.yaw measuring? I'm assuming that OSD.pitch and OSD.roll are relative to what the P3 thinks is level. Is OSD.yaw relative to the front of the P3?

On final question. It seems that some of these fly-aways may have started with a compass error caused by nearby metal. I get that, but wouldn't the compass recover shortly after launch and normal flight would resume?

 

[bbfpv]

On final question. It seems that some of these fly-aways may have started with a compass error caused by nearby metal. I get that, but wouldn't the compass recover shortly after launch and normal flight would resume?

The problem is calibrating the compass near metal, thus storing the bad values as though they are good. The effects of being near metal assuming you calibrated somewhere safe will dissipate as you move away from the object.

 

[III% Streve]

I dont think anyone ever tried to say that the problem WAS a compass error. But more trying to apply the logic of a compass error to what the flight data presents, both to prove or disprove that as the flaw leading to the fly away and to use that in better defining the flight past beyond the data we actually have. @Leon001.. can you post a video of the playback of this flight? It would show the direction your P3 was facing, as well as the direction you were facing (for reference) at takeoff. This might help to show a bad compass calibration. I really don't think that compass cal is the issue, due to the first flight being table and successful.

 

[RiskFactor]

No reason to apologize.. Please get a case ID and I will do my best to help out. If there was a smoking gun I would have commented but without the proper tools I just moved on.. I apologize for that and will try not to let it happen again. I understand DJI support isn't up to peoples standards and I agree with that. They are changing and have done a lot of improvement over the last year. Still this is one area that needs some serious work...

When I was at the new repair facility 2 weeks ago I learned that dealers can not process users RMA's or claims. This is why I want you to start the process, until then no one can really help or forward your concerns to the proper people.

I understand that forums and our support can be a little confusing but in all honesty we are only here to help in trouble shooting an issue anything more needs to be logged into the support system.

Just so you know I have been flying, driving and hovering things for 30 years...I do my best at what I do, but I am human and not perfect, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

Well said. Blade, please do not leave this forum...this is an extremely helpful post from a DJI-insider, and your candid response is much appreciated. Having someone here that is familiar with support issues, particularly due to the complexities (and likely pitfalls) that we new users will encounter, is most welcome, and we can all use the guidance. Don't let criticisms (mine included) get under your skin. This post is a great example of service recovery...kudos to you.

Man...I really need to get a Trackimo.