NO-FLY Logic Flawed

[jeffames226]

Hi Guy's,
I'm not a pro flyer just recreational , I had a friend lose his Racing drone on top of a church building under construction, but is dormant now, it is a top of a 3 story flat roof, I know it's close to our big airport , with in a mile of it in fact, So we met out there, I was going to use my P4 or P3 advanced to try and retrieve it, No your not, It came up when I went to take off ," You are in a Red restricted No Fly zone, This was the DJI software for both Phantoms, So I tried Litchi on both, same thing, would not allow me to take off because the location in in the RED No Fly Zone. I've been reading all the above comments, and see even you PRO Pilots are dealing with the same issue. So is this issue still alive and well or has anyone figured a way around of some sort? I felt bad for my buddy, DJI made me look like an idiot LOL any way any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
SteveP55

There is a way around it but not “DJI approved”. Search youtube

 

[David Cooke]

Hi Guy's,
I'm not a pro flyer just recreational , I had a friend lose his Racing drone on top of a church building under construction, but is dormant now, it is a top of a 3 story flat roof, I know it's close to our big airport , with in a mile of it in fact, So we met out there, I was going to use my P4 or P3 advanced to try and retrieve it, No your not, It came up when I went to take off ," You are in a Red restricted No Fly zone, This was the DJI software for both Phantoms, So I tried Litchi on both, same thing, would not allow me to take off because the location in in the RED No Fly Zone. I've been reading all the above comments, and see even you PRO Pilots are dealing with the same issue. So is this issue still alive and well or has anyone figured a way around of some sort? I felt bad for my buddy, DJI made me look like an idiot LOL any way any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
SteveP55

Where are you maybe I can get it . . . try finding someone with the authorization to fly there. . . should be an easy task if you can get a qualified flyer . . mind you they may want to get paid . . not all of us commercial guys are in it just for the money

Good Luck

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Hi Guy's,
I'm not a pro flyer just recreational , I had a friend lose his Racing drone on top of a church building under construction, but is dormant now, it is a top of a 3 story flat roof, I know it's close to our big airport , with in a mile of it in fact, So we met out there, I was going to use my P4 or P3 advanced to try and retrieve it, No your not, It came up when I went to take off ," You are in a Red restricted No Fly zone, This was the DJI software for both Phantoms, So I tried Litchi on both, same thing, would not allow me to take off because the location in in the RED No Fly Zone. I've been reading all the above comments, and see even you PRO Pilots are dealing with the same issue. So is this issue still alive and well or has anyone figured a way around of some sort? I felt bad for my buddy, DJI made me look like an idiot LOL any way any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
SteveP55

see if this advance unlock works

 

[Calsun]

DJI is selling its products in a great many different countries with differing regulations. Much easier for the DJI programmers to make a generic application that works everywhere (in terms of governmental concerns) and there is no incentive for them to write code for customers in the USA or other specific location. When you have 75% market share you can tell customers to do it our way or the highway.

Not at all unusual for anyone using any of the Microsoft operating systems over the past 35 years and continuing to experience problems with the registry, dll's, viruses, spyware, the infamous Bill Gate Blue Screen OF Death, and slow application performance.

For personal use I believe it best to modify the AC setup to ignore NFZ as this makes for a safer aircraft that remains under the user's control. How DJI can think that any set of automated routines is going to be 100% better than a human controlling the aircraft shows the typical programmers' hubris. When I managed teams of developers a large portion of my job was forcing them to code in error recovery routines as the tendency was overwhelmingly for them to say that all the user had to do when a routine took them to a dead end was to reboot the computer and start their journey at the beginning again.

That is why in part it is scary that the Republicans in Congress are pushing legislation to privatize the air traffic control system in the United States. Obviously a way for their contributors to make billions of dollars but would you want ATC running Windows because of some backroom deal struck by Microsoft?

 

[N017RW]

DJI is selling its products in a great many different countries with differing regulations. Much easier for the DJI programmers to make a generic application that works everywhere (in terms of governmental concerns) and there is no incentive for them to write code for customers in the USA or other specific location. When you have 75% market share you can tell customers to do it our way or the highway.

Not at all unusual for anyone using any of the Microsoft operating systems over the past 35 years and continuing to experience problems with the registry, dll's, viruses, spyware, the infamous Bill Gate Blue Screen OF Death, and slow application performance.

For personal use I believe it best to modify the AC setup to ignore NFZ as this makes for a safer aircraft that remains under the user's control. How DJI can think that any set of automated routines is going to be 100% better than a human controlling the aircraft shows the typical programmers' hubris. When I managed teams of developers a large portion of my job was forcing them to code in error recovery routines as the tendency was overwhelmingly for them to say that all the user had to do when a routine took them to a dead end was to reboot the computer and start their journey at the beginning again.

That is why in part it is scary that the Republicans in Congress are pushing legislation to privatize the air traffic control system in the United States. Obviously a way for their contributors to make billions of dollars but would you want ATC running Windows because of some backroom deal struck by Microsoft?

In accordance with the site usage rules, please refrain from political commentary.
Often what you don't know may explain what you think you do know.

 

[SteveP55]

Where are you maybe I can get it . . . try finding someone with the authorization to fly there. . . should be an easy task if you can get a qualified flyer . . mind you they may want to get paid . . not all of us commercial guys are in it just for the money

Good Luck

Hi David,
I'm located in Rockford, IL
I don't really know to many flyers around here.
Thanks for the thought
SteveP55

 

[Forcelite]

I kept old firmware on the bird and use litchi and have had NO restrictions at all.
Force

 

[SteveP55]

I kept old firmware on the bird and use litchi and have had NO restrictions at all.
Force

Hi Forcelite,
Your a lucky one, I don't know where to get an older version of the firmware nor what version I would need if I did ? LOL
Know any that would help me along this path feel free to send it along.
Again Thanks My Friend
SteveP55

 

[SteveP55]

In accordance with the site usage rules, please refrain from political commentary.
Often what you don't know may explain what you think you do know.

A-men, I myself respect everyone's views, until it reaches a point of historical ignorance, then I have a big Problem, Please everyone let's NOT BE POLITICAL ON THIS Great site so we can all be kind to one another, there is enough hate in this world let's keep it out of here.
PEACE
SteveP55

 

[VegasFlyer]

DJI is not the FAA and they need to stop acting like it. I ran into an error today with the new app saying "error the max limits are 30m high and 50m distance" blah blah blah. And I was logged into the app. But because I went back to firmware 1.3 on the p4p and controller, it still flew 700+ feet out and 200 feet high. It does not enforce the restrictions on the firmware versions I'm using. The app didn't do this before the latest update. So they fix the disappearing map feature and they have some new app issues.

I believe I read the "max limits are 30m high and 50m distance" is erroneous. I experienced it after doing a firmware update. I regressed to 1.10.009 and I haven't seen it since.

I don't see DJI as trying to act like the FAA or any other governmental agency. It takes mountains of data from the various countries to implement the procedures correctly. In no way can I see DJI programmers writing extremely complex code without guidance from the aeronautical governing bodies. That would simply be foolish on their part.

With all due respect, if DJI were an American company would you make the same argument? ALL software contains bugs even at the OS level. I can tell you from experience that 1) sometimes a serious bug may be missed during Q&A, and 2) those bugs that are unlikely to affect a large number of people don't receive the same amount of attention and are often put off to a later date.

 

[VegasFlyer]

Hi Guy's,
I'm not a pro flyer just recreational , I had a friend lose his Racing drone on top of a church building under construction, but is dormant now, it is a top of a 3 story flat roof, I know it's close to our big airport , with in a mile of it in fact, So we met out there, I was going to use my P4 or P3 advanced to try and retrieve it, No your not, It came up when I went to take off ," You are in a Red restricted No Fly zone, This was the DJI software for both Phantoms, So I tried Litchi on both, same thing, would not allow me to take off because the location in in the RED No Fly Zone. I've been reading all the above comments, and see even you PRO Pilots are dealing with the same issue. So is this issue still alive and well or has anyone figured a way around of some sort? I felt bad for my buddy, DJI made me look like an idiot LOL any way any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
SteveP55

I find this thread quite interesting. Not once have I experienced the behavior that started this discussion. Below is McCarran, the main airport for Las Vegas. In the lower right corner of the first picture is a flight from 2 months ago using DJI Go. Below it is the overview. As you can see, the app issued no warnings. This location is 1 mile southeast from of the end of the runway and 1.5 miles due south of the flight path. At this point I believe the aircraft are roughly 200-300 feet above ground level. I know this is a P4P thread and I fly a P3P, but I'm inclined to think this is either a bug they missed or a misinterpretation of an FAA directive.

 

[SteveP55]

Hi Vegas Flyer, All I can say is you lucky Dog you LOL, I live near the Rockford Chicago International Air Port and this is where this incident took place, about a mile from the air port, It was highlighted in Red and would not let me take off period, neither the P3 adv. nor the P4, I even tried to use Litchi on both and again would not allow me to Take off Red Restricted Air Space. Oh well, Sht happens LOL
Thanks
SteveP55

 

[David Cooke]

I find this thread quite interesting. Not once have I experienced the behavior that started this discussion. Below is McCarran, the main airport for Las Vegas. In the lower right corner of the first picture is a flight from 2 months ago using DJI Go. Below it is the overview. As you can see, the app issued no warnings. This location is 1 mile southeast from of the end of the runway and 1.5 miles due south of the flight path. At this point I believe the aircraft are roughly 200-300 feet above ground level. I know this is a P4P thread and I fly a P3P, but I'm inclined to think this is either a bug they missed or a misinterpretation of an FAA directive.

View attachment 89006
View attachment 89007

Gotta disagree with your first premis . . that DJI is using "good logic" to write this code . . it is at best cumbersome and inconsistent and a serious hindrance/hazard to the user. I have had places near airports UNLOCKED and had to go through the "are you authorized" CHECK BOX "do you take responsibility? CHECK BOX and "Please Confirm" CHECK BOX as many as SIX TIMES in the middle of trying to work a site.The constant WARNINGs being thrown up on the screen have nearly caused me to run into things more than once.

At one point I was warned for a few seconds I was IN a NO-FLY zone ( that I had just UNLOCKED 2 min before . . (and the RED zone had disappeared). . .and before I could react it took control and landed 860ft from me barely missing the swamp 10 ft to the left. fortunately there were no people on the path at that time . . . . . no as a one-time programmer of satellite tracking software it's poorly thought out and poorly executed . . and they should STOP trying to control how people fly in foreign airspace. Regulate the people NOT the Machines! AI is not good enough yet.

 

[VegasFlyer]

Gotta disagree with your first premis . . that DJI is using "good logic" to write this code . . it is at best cumbersome and inconsistent and a serious hindrance/hazard to the user. I have had places near airports UNLOCKED and had to go through the "are you authorized" CHECK BOX "do you take responsibility? CHECK BOX and "Please Confirm" CHECK BOX as many as SIX TIMES in the middle of trying to work a site.The constant WARNINGs being thrown up on the screen have nearly caused me to run into things more than once.

At one point I was warned for a few seconds I was IN a NO-FLY zone ( that I had just UNLOCKED 2 min before . . (and the RED zone had disappeared). . .and before I could react it took control and landed 860ft from me barely missing the swamp 10 ft to the left. fortunately there were no people on the path at that time . . . . . no as a one-time programmer of satellite tracking software it's poorly thought out and poorly executed . . and they should STOP trying to control how people fly in foreign airspace. Regulate the people NOT the Machines! AI is not good enough yet.

I didn't state whether or not they're using good logic. And I didn't state I've never seen the "are you authorized" CHECK BOX "do you take responsibility?" message. What I haven't had happen is either app requiring me to go through the Unlock procedure. I have seen the "You are approaching a No-Fly zone" but it didn't prevent me from proceeding with the flight. However, I still stand by my opinion that this is not an overt attempt by the company to impose restrictions unilaterally.

As I stated in another response, there isn't a piece of complex software that I'm aware of that doesn't have a bug of some sort in its code. I think we can agree on that point. I agree with your point on AI in general. I doubt these birds are equipped with a neural net.

 

[David Cooke]

I can agree with that... points well taken. They just need to stop being the police everywhere... it's not helping make it any safer

 

[VegasFlyer]

Hi Vegas Flyer, All I can say is you lucky Dog you LOL, I live near the Rockford Chicago International Air Port and this is where this incident took place, about a mile from the air port, It was highlighted in Red and would not let me take off period, neither the P3 adv. nor the P4, I even tried to use Litchi on both and again would not allow me to Take off Red Restricted Air Space. Oh well, Sht happens LOL
Thanks
SteveP55

I used to live in the Bensenville/Elmhurst area just west of final approach for one O'Hare's longest runways. (before the drone explosion) I'm sure you've seen from the air just how dense that area is! I have to admit I'm not too surprised on the restrictions there especially given the fear of possible terrorism. I can still remember the eerie silence when they grounded all planes.

 

[VegasFlyer]

I can agree with that... points well taken. They just need to stop being the police everywhere... it's not helping make it any safer

Oh I agree 100%, but it's the idiots that make it miserable for those of us who stick to the rules!!

 

[VegasFlyer]

I can agree with that... points well taken. They just need to stop being the police everywhere... it's not helping make it any safer

By the way, have you had someone pull out a gun and threaten to shoot down your drone yet? I was 1200 feet away and 150 feet up from his property!

 

[David Cooke]

No, worst so far was a Red Tailed Hawk that followed me home one day . . just seemed to be curious . . then there was the irate penthouse owner who did not like me flying by his top floor. . . He seemed to think he was so important that I even cared what he was doing up there. (I was filming the general area to show the proximity of that building to the harbour area and had no interest in him or filming his "private" top floor.

Some guys in Calgary got shot at last week I noticed . . south of town trying to hit a commercial drone on an authorized shoot . .

 

[VegasFlyer]

No, worst so far was a Red Tailed Hawk that followed me home one day . . just seemed to be curious . . then there was the irate penthouse owner who did not like me flying by his top floor. . . He seemed to think he was so important that I even cared what he was doing up there. (I was filming the general area to show the proximity of that building to the harbour area and had no interest in him or filming his "private" top floor.

Some guys in Calgary got shot at last week I noticed . . south of town trying to hit a commercial drone on an authorized shoot . .

"He seemed to think he was so important that I even cared what he was doing up there." -- Exactly my point too. They could be having "fun" with farm animals and I wouldn't care!