iOS Ground Station on Phantom 2

[wkf94025]

May I ask a naïve question of you EE PhD's out there? Knowing all too little about the innards of RC systems, would someone confirm or correct the assumptions (and questions) I am forming on this topic of pot adjustment in the stock radio?

1) I assume there are regulatory limits out there in various jurisdictions that drive the settings on the power output of RF transmission devices.
2) I assume more power = more range (pretty confident of this one ;-)
3) I understand turning up the power on the stock radio is accomplished by turning down the resistance on a potentiometer in the radio.
4) I believe turning up the power beyond local regulatory limits is, well, really cool to think about.
5) I am wondering about long term health ramifications of putting a higher power RF emitter around your neck daily. Or are we all screwed by the amount of cell phones, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc. in our lives, so in for a penny, in for a pound if range matters to you.
6) Are there similar adjustments that can be made in my Futaba 14SGH?
7) Are there any downsides to the longevity of the transmitter in turning up the power?
8) I assume turning up the power probably voids any warranty on a quality transmitter? (Don't care on stock radio.)
8) How expensive/cheap/rare/common is a device to measure current actual power output of my transmitter? I would put it on the produce scale at the grocery store, but I don't think that's going to tell me much.

Thanks for the tribal input on the above.

Signed,
Range Junky

PS: this probably belongs in a thread dedicated to range. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[ianwood]

Ground station doesn't need to maintain radio contact in order to complete its mission. To your other questions, your assumptions are pretty much correct.There is no easy way to change power output of the stock TX or after market TX like Futaba and strictly speaking changing transmit power beyond FCC levels tested and certified for that device is a no no. BTW, there is a power adjustment on the P2V controller which has no effect on the P2 controller as they operate in different ISM bands and are subject to different rules.

Even though you can't change power levels, you can change gain using antennas. Look up the wind surfer antenna modification. Discussing further probably should be in another thread as this is not fully relevant to GS. And remember that one of the benefits of GS is the ability to program your Phantom to fly through a series of waypoints beyond the actual range of your transmitter.

 

[havasuphoto]

With a stock radio, I have been able to go no more than say, 1300m out without it turning home. That's moving at about 10m/sec. I get about 17 min total flight time going down to 25% battery with the P2, H23D, GoPro, a Garmin GPS tracker, iOSD Mini, and avl58 tx attached with antenna - at 45 degrees F air temp. Minus one min if you add the data link on top of that.

I don't think anything more than say 2000m is possible and still get it back home, and that's assuming you could keep a radio link to it which you can't at that distance with a stock Tx, as far as I know.

I have seen multiple accounts of people flying their stock Phantom 2 and RC over 5000m. They were all with a clear line-of-sight.
For the best RC range, set the CE/FCC switch (Potentiometer identified on page 12 item 13 in the 1.06 manual) on the RC to FCC mode by turning 1/4 turn clockwise. Be gentle. The FCC mode is for US. See your local regulations for using this setting.
Here is an account of a flight over 5000m. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyoTOm87U9w

Got a how too video on youtube?
I would assume that all Phantom 2(non-visions), shipped to the US would already be in FCC mode; am I wrong?

As for the GS; I asked DJI a few questions, and basically this is for the Phantom 2 only. It is also for the higher end controllers like the Wookong, etc. But, not for the Phantom 1.

 

[Anticipate]

The iOS Ground Station App has now been updated in the Apple app store to version 1.4.58

I downloaded it and while I haven't flown it, I updated the BTU and all connected fine. (It's raining and I'm working; maybe tomorrow!)

The only two things I see that are new is a custom template (no idea how to make it yet) and if you go into the multiple waypoint screen, there's a somewhat confusing little icon with an airplane in the lower right corner. If you click that while in flight, the quad's current position and nose direction is stored as a waypoint. Could be very cool.

 

[Anticipate]

Ground station doesn't need to maintain radio contact in order to complete its mission. ... And remember that one of the benefits of GS is the ability to program your Phantom to fly through a series of waypoints beyond the actual range of your transmitter.

That was what I was thinking but wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying that!

Of course if you fly out beyond your tx you are taking a huge risk, but it would be interesting to try as I lose tx at about 1300m out. Video drops later, deepening on how high it is. The lower the quicker the loss due to things in the way, obviously.

 

[Anticipate]

I have seen multiple accounts of people flying their stock Phantom 2 and RC over 5000m. They were all with a clear line-of-sight.For the best RC range, set the CE/FCC switch (Potentiometer identified on page 12 item 13 in the 1.06 manual) on the RC to FCC mode by turning 1/4 turn clockwise. Be gentle. The FCC mode is for US. See your local regulations for using this setting. Here is an account of a flight over 5000m. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyoTOm87U9w

Wow. Isn't the P2 sold in the US already on FCC mode? though?

 

[OI Photography]

if you go into the multiple waypoint screen, there's a horrid little icon with an airplane in the lower right corner. If you click that while in flight, the quad's current position and nose direction is stored as a waypoint. Could be very cool.

It is indeed...you can manually fly the course you want and record it as a mission that way (with verified camera angles, etc), rather than having to program it abstractly beforehand.

 

[Anticipate]

It is indeed...you can manually fly the course you want and record it as a mission that way (with verified camera angles, etc), rather than having to program it abstractly beforehand.

That's huge. You can purchase expensive systems for cameras on the ground that do the same thing (e.g. Kessler's CineDrive or Oracle controller). They are very helpful because you can just repeat the same shot over and over and focus on your camera tilt and of course the story. Creativity reigns again, without having to worry as much about piloting.

Wind and environmental factors play with the P2 of course, but the H3-3D should help. I am getting one ASAP to counter the GPS wobble with the GS in particular. It's not bad, but it should be much smoother and the H3 should take care of that.

 

[havasuphoto]

It is indeed...you can manually fly the course you want and record it as a mission that way (with verified camera angles, etc), rather than having to program it abstractly beforehand.

That's huge. You can purchase expensive systems for cameras on the ground that do the same thing (e.g. Kessler's CineDrive or Oracle controller). They are very helpful because you can just repeat the same shot over and over and focus on your camera tilt and of course the story. Creativity reigns again, without having to worry as much about piloting.

Wind and environmental factors play with the P2 of course, but the H3-3D should help. I am getting one ASAP to counter the GPS wobble with the GS in particular. It's not bad, but it should be much smoother and the H3 should take care of that.

Bingo!!!
Some were asking the question; what can I use this GS for? I provided a short list. But, for those "film making", or doing Photography-having the GS is a neat tool. If you miss the shot, you can just "reset to A", and start again. Flying is for the birds. I want to control the camera!!!

BUT-I'm still not going to buy one until quite a few things are sorted, and we have more people using them, successfully.

DJI has answered all my E-mails regarding the GS. I also hope they take to heart, my "suggestions". As the current interface is way too clunky.
I also suggested to them, to make the data out from the GPS/Naza-open source!!! That way-other, more creative people could write their own programs and apps for the GS. I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

 

[OI Photography]

DJI has answered all my E-mails regarding the GS

Did they give any hints or even vague references to an updated PC interface?

 

[havasuphoto]

DJI has answered all my E-mails regarding the GS

Did they give any hints or even vague references to an updated PC interface?

No, they did not. They only said that the Ground Station, was for P2, and up, only. Frankly, I find the entire PC interface to be just bizarre. I understand they are trying to write a 1-size fit's all program, that can work on I-pads, and PC's. But, that dog won't hunt. You need separate app's. I haven't seen the I-pad app-but I'm pretty sure it's equally clunky.

I think this whole concept of UAV is still too new to them, and they are way behind the times. DJI isn't that big of a company, yet. So, writing this type of software takes a bit of time, effort, and $$ on their part.
I'll sit this one out for awhile to see how it develops.

 

[OI Photography]

They only said that the Ground Station, was for P2, and up, only.

:shock: Does that mean all the P1 pilot's who are using it have to stop now..?

The iPad interface is a whole other ball game compared to the PC software...much leaner, cleaner, and better organized.

 

[Deleted member 8406]

The new GS app is available in the app store. I am going to test.....

 

[Zippy1144]

The new GS app is available in the app store. I am going to test.....

I'm following. Anxious to see your results.

 

[killjoy]

Picking snipe meat out of my teeth as I write.
My simple route ran like it should via the GS iPad app today. Very satisfying indeed. I did flick it back (flip right toggle switch fully down, then fully back up) to manual control right after it completed the triangle, just by choice. Flew manually after that until battery was dead. This app update really opened the door. So many possibilities for fun now. Now I just need to learn how to use the app properly. My first impression is, it seems clean and simple in appearance. Yay!

 

[Zippy1144]

Picking snipe meat out of my teeth as I write.
My simple route ran like it should via the GS iPad app today. Very satisfying indeed. I did flick it back (flip right toggle switch fully down, then fully back up) to manual control right after it completed the triangle, just by choice. Flew manually after that until battery was dead. This app update really opened the door. So many possibilities for fun now. Now I just need to learn how to use the app properly. My first impression is, it seems clean and simple in appearance. Yay!

When you say "Manually" do you mean the manual setting or that you used the controller to take over with assisted flight (GPS, Atti,)? BTW, thank you for that encouraging report.

 

[killjoy]

When you say "Manually" do you mean the manual setting or that you used the controller to take over with assisted flight (GPS, Atti,)? BTW, thank you for that encouraging report.

Ya, I guess I said that wrong. These terms are all still new to me. I just mean I switched back to me controlling the P2 with the white controller. But yes, I still was utilizing all the usual GPS hovering and stability assistance features.
Later, I flew a more complicated 10-waypoint loop around my house, using the circle template. I still haven't discovered a blanket setting that will keep the camera pointed at center of the circle. But I can see how to easily set the desired heading at each individual waypoint, which should turn out the same with a little more work.

 

[WTFOver]

With a stock radio, I have been able to go no more than say, 1300m out without it turning home. That's moving at about 10m/sec. I get about 17 min total flight time going down to 25% battery with the P2, H23D, GoPro, a Garmin GPS tracker, iOSD Mini, and avl58 tx attached with antenna - at 45 degrees F air temp. Minus one min if you add the data link on top of that.

I don't think anything more than say 2000m is possible and still get it back home, and that's assuming you could keep a radio link to it which you can't at that distance with a stock Tx, as far as I know.

With a 1400gr AUW I have gone 5000meters and back sometimes with a tail wind at up to 45mph. Always watch speed out because if your not able to get speed back it may self land 1000 meters out. You'll find yourself tensing up thinking "faster, faster". I've had to keep it in the air with the stick and come home at 7% which is not good for the battery. To get the range I use the homemade "WindSurfer" Parabolic on the transmitter and the video rx. I ditched the 2A WiFi booster on the transmitter as I didn't need it.

Question: Is the GeoFence mandatory when I do the FW update, meaning am I forced into altitude and distance restrictions and is it in manual control or Ground station control.

 

[crawf57]

Maybe I've misread the user manual, but it looks like you are supposed to be able to configure the P2 (i.e. assistant software) using the iPad GS App over bluetooth - except for firmware updates... has anyone managed to work out how to do this?

From the User Guide Notes section:

You can configure the Flight control system using the Assistant software on a PC or iOS mobile Device
wirelessly over the link of the 2.4G Bluetooth Datalink, however you cannot upgrade the firmware of
the Flight control system using this communication route.

 

[OI Photography]

Maybe I've misread the user manual, but it looks like you are supposed to be able to configure the P2 (i.e. assistant software) using the iPad GS App over bluetooth - except for firmware updates... has anyone managed to work out how to do this?

From the User Guide Notes section:

You can configure the Flight control system using the Assistant software on a PC or iOS mobile Device
wirelessly over the link of the 2.4G Bluetooth Datalink, however you cannot upgrade the firmware of
the Flight control system using this communication route.

There's a separate app for iPhone (and maybe iPad) that functions as the NAZA Assistant Software does on the PC, it's not the same Groundstation App for iPad. However, the Assistant Software app will work over the BT connection on the Groundstation setup....no new hardware is needed if you have that already, just the separate app.