Help with Controller Direction to Bird - Standard/Argtek & DBS

[AvionicsAussie]

I am basically a new P3S pilot, I am based in Australia and have done the Magic Power upgrade (Best thing ever!)

The issue I am having, is keeping the controller facing the drone. 1 small movement (like 1cm) will drop my signal from full to zero and vice versa. I do want to upgrade to either an Argtek (maybe omni's) if they aren't as sensitive to small movement or even DBS. But then the question arises that if I use a DBS panel is it just as sensitive at the same distance I am getting without an antenna mod?

Have tried to use the map/radar on DJI go but it seems the radar was close but I needed to be facing slightly left of where it said i should.

Also at long distance say 1km and 120m height should i be directing my RC upwards on an angle much?

Any tips, tricks, different apps, or knowledge on how the upgrades both argtek omni/panel or DBS would be much appreciated.

I like to be able to fly focusing more on my screen/camera than be worrying that if I fart I am going to lose my aircraft lol.

Kind Regards
Brayden

 

[tevek]

I am basically a new P3S pilot, I am based in Australia and have done the Magic Power upgrade (Best thing ever!)

The issue I am having, is keeping the controller facing the drone. 1 small movement (like 1cm) will drop my signal from full to zero and vice versa. I do want to upgrade to either an Argtek (maybe omni's) if they aren't as sensitive to small movement or even DBS. But then the question arises that if I use a DBS panel is it just as sensitive at the same distance I am getting without an antenna mod?

Have tried to use the map/radar on DJI go but it seems the radar was close but I needed to be facing slightly left of where it said i should.

Also at long distance say 1km and 120m height should i be directing my RC upwards on an angle much?

Any tips, tricks, different apps, or knowledge on how the upgrades both argtek omni/panel or DBS would be much appreciated.

I like to be able to fly focusing more on my screen/camera than be worrying that if I fart I am going to lose my aircraft lol.

Kind Regards
Brayden

Written like a true Aussie, 'if I fart'. Much has been written about the P3S and range issues involving interference, proper orientation of the antenna. There are certainly some great antenna mods out there that are big improvement on the standard unit. Living in CE land you would be pushing to get 1 Klm without spending time with managing your antenna orientation, you could try a cheap windsurfer slip on antenna to see if that helps before plowing reasonable money into getting what you want. I spent $500 getting my P4 to overcome range and penetration issues (?) through the trees where I live, the PS3 I had before that was never going to make it regardless of how many kidneys I donated. The flying environment dictates how your signal will perform, regardless of your set up, open areas good, urban areas, not so good.

 

[AvionicsAussie]

Written like a true Aussie, 'if I fart'. Much has been written about the P3S and range issues involving interference, proper orientation of the antenna. There are certainly some great antenna mods out there that are big improvement on the standard unit. Living in CE land you would be pushing to get 1 Klm without spending time with managing your antenna orientation, you could try a cheap windsurfer slip on antenna to see if that helps before plowing reasonable money into getting what you want. I spent $500 getting my P4 to overcome range and penetration issues (?) through the trees where I live, the PS3 I had before that was never going to make it regardless of how many kidneys I donated. The flying environment dictates how your signal will perform, regardless of your set up, open areas good, urban areas, not so good.

Yeah CE doesnt exist anymore haha. CE had me restricted to 230m clear sight. After Magic Power boosted my 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz to FCC standard I just managed to get 1.5km but I am just curious that with getting an antenna upgrade will that signal cone become even tighter and worse for minor controller adjustments?

 

[tevek]

Yeah CE doesnt exist anymore haha. CE had me restricted to 230m clear sight. After Magic Power boosted my 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz to FCC standard I just managed to get 1.5km but I am just curious that with getting an antenna upgrade will that signal cone become even tighter and worse for minor controller adjustments?

The antenna upgrade options are more directional but no where near as bad as the Omni directional set up with the standard antenna. You still need to aim towards the drone but achieve much better results. I flew my old PS3 with a $10 windsurfer approx 1.6-1.8 klms dependent on the weather in the Phillipines, but struggled back home due to the incessant interference. MaxUAV has some very good options for you if you want to play the long distance game.

 

[AvionicsAussie]

How silly am I!

I wasn't even taking into account that the stupid 5.8ghz is an omni!

Tevek! Thank you! That just made my day, I am a fool! Hahaha

I do like the argtek setup with 3 omni's as that would clearly stop need to be so directional but then again omni's will never get as far as panels unless they are boosted (lightbulb moment!)

But in all honesty I do want a DBS set up, I just dont want to be say 2km away and spending all my time looking at my controller angle and not my screen.

I have seen in autopilot it draws a blue line showing ur controller transmit line, but autopilot I cannot find for Android.

Also does anyone know how to get the radar either in litchi or dji go to work perfectly? Today in litchi (my first use of the app) while pointed at the bird not far away the radar showed the bird at about 280° with it's nose pointing directly away from me "the white line to the dot" but that isn't a great help. If it was orientated so the top of the radar is where my RC is facing and the bird is wherever it is relevant to that would be perfect!

I appreciate all your responses. I am just getting frustrated with full bars then RTH and immediately after it attemps to RTH full bars again!

"I will never make it to the moon at this rate!" (Sigh) ;-)

 

[tevek]

Relax, I use both Litchi and the go app and the radar is pretty close. I fly at some 'reasonable' distances and often use the display to orientate the drone back to home. A couple of degrees out, but I can hear it long before I can see it and no problems guiding it back. Your radar display is dependent on your home point belong recorded and being relevant to where you are, sounds stupid, but I only take off when I am happy with the map.

 

[AvionicsAussie]

So the radar's "north" as such, is the position it starts in? Obviously it turns as I do and aircraft position moves relevant to my position and its attitude.

Just trying to get my head around it really. I have googled it and watched a few videos but as we all know there are thousands of videos out there and just when you think you have scored the right one to watch, 15 minutes later and the one piece of info you wanted didn't even get a mention lol.

I have seen autopilot for android or references to it being on android more so. But is it actually available for android?

Seems like a really good app, would love to try it. And as for the radar, it seemed to be a lot more on point in DJI GO than litchi.

Time for so long tutorial reading/watching I think.

 

[dchao]

I use the stock 5.8g antenna with wind surfer, and I can reach almost 1Km in the city, and it's not sensitive to RC's position. Next, I want to try a higher gain rubber ducky omni antenna.
Yep, I'm in CE area too, the Magic Power is magical ! But it only boost the 2.4ghz WiFi and doesn't boost the 5.8ghz tx signal.

 

[tevek]

So the radar's "north" as such, is the position it starts in? Obviously it turns as I do and aircraft position moves relevant to my position and its attitude.

Just trying to get my head around it really. I have googled it and watched a few videos but as we all know there are thousands of videos out there and just when you think you have scored the right one to watch, 15 minutes later and the one piece of info you wanted didn't even get a mention lol.

I have seen autopilot for android or references to it being on android more so. But is it actually available for android?

Seems like a really good app, would love to try it. And as for the radar, it seemed to be a lot more on point in DJI GO than litchi.

Time for so long tutorial reading/watching I think.

I don't particular bother with north or south as it's the drone's relative position of the home point that I care about. I usually lose sight of my drone 30 secs after take off and rely on the home point being recorded, follow the flight path back as per the display on either Litchi or the go app and all is good. I have never used Autopilot so I can't comment, but I use WP missions all the time with Litchi and it has never failed to impress.

 

[AvionicsAussie]

I use the stock 5.8g antenna with wind surfer, and I can reach almost 1Km in the city, and it's not sensitive to RC's position. Next, I want to try a higher gain rubber ducky omni antenna.
Yep, I'm in CE area too, the Magic Power is magical ! But it only boost the 2.4ghz WiFi and doesn't boost the 5.8ghz tx signal.

FALSE! If you use the latest version of MP 5.3 and open up additional settings. You can set your drone to USA or JAPAN etc. This will increase your 5.8ghz to FCC standard! You may have already done it without realising also. And i changed my channel for 2.4ghz to 13 as here is Australia 13 is basically the least interfered with. And i have 2.4ghz at 27dbi

**** good. But may have to try a windsurfer. As my 5.8ghz drops out while I still have decent video but they are both fairly low when the 5.8 drops.

Regards
Brayden

 

[AvionicsAussie]

I don't particular bother with north or south as it's the drone's relative position of the home point that I care about. I usually lose sight of my drone 30 secs after take off and rely on the home point being recorded, follow the flight path back as per the display on either Litchi or the go app and all is good. I have never used Autopilot so I can't comment, but I use WP missions all the time with Litchi and it has never failed to impress.

Yes but if you are using Litchi and Waypoints your controller means nothing as it will continue miles without needing the signal. As you said though so long as HOME point is set!

I played stupid operator today and i forgot I set my batt warning at 20% so I cancelled RTH and seen I had a fair bit of orange left so I thought I would do a quick full tilt out the back of the farm and over the small bushland behind then quickly buzz back. Well 600m away "critical battery warning" autoland initiated.... I may have poo'd a little and tried to keep throttle up and guide back. But then of course in the scuffle of screen-drone-screen-try to cancel (haha cancel!!!) And then no signal and left with a still image from a camera angle of about 45° 100m alt and all I can see is trees!

The map was showing it in a paddock just left of a wall of trees and just right of another big tree!

Well after having to go the only way I could, 5 min drive around, I found it landed perfectly in the paddock right where I had hoped it went down!

Big lesson learnt today!!!

 

[solentlife]

FALSE! If you use the latest version of MP 5.3 and open up additional settings. You can set your drone to USA or JAPAN etc. This will increase your 5.8ghz to FCC standard! You may have already done it without realising also. And i changed my channel for 2.4ghz to 13 as here is Australia 13 is basically the least interfered with. And i have 2.4ghz at 27dbi

**** good. But may have to try a windsurfer. As my 5.8ghz drops out while I still have decent video but they are both fairly low when the 5.8 drops.

Regards
Brayden

Sorry Brayden ..... MP and Icarus only change 2.4Ghz power levels ..... this is an accepted fact ... and also supported by Author of MP, Papa himself in the About txt file :

quote "
How it works is the application changing the 2.4 GHz signal from 17 dBm to 27 dBm (If this is too high can select option 20 dBm).
With the video signal increases will reduce the lag, more stable in the video reception."

We are all aware that range usually increases and it is asked many times whether changing the FW's location in the line concerning GPS may trigger increased 5.8Ghz signal .... no-one has answered that one fully yet that I can see. It is possible but not certain.

What we do know and this is based on the authors of MP and Icarus is that the programs are designed to alter the VIDEO / Telemetry 2.4Ghz power levels.

What I know is that increasing 2.4Ghz signal is not hard and does not incur much heat generation / power levels. But 5.8Ghz boosting does. So possibly its been avoided while still using stock gear.

Nigel

 

[dchao]

For P3S, the 2.4ghz video downlink uses the same WiFi standard as on PC and Mac. And the drone and RC both run the Linux operating system. Anyone with Linux expertise can easily hack into the OS and change the tx power. Whereas the 5.8g tranceiver is non-standard, and much more difficult to hack into it..

 

[AvionicsAussie]

Sorry Brayden ..... MP and Icarus only change 2.4Ghz power levels ..... this is an accepted fact ... and also supported by Author of MP, Papa himself in the About txt file :

quote "
How it works is the application changing the 2.4 GHz signal from 17 dBm to 27 dBm (If this is too high can select option 20 dBm).
With the video signal increases will reduce the lag, more stable in the video reception."

We are all aware that range usually increases and it is asked many times whether changing the FW's location in the line concerning GPS may trigger increased 5.8Ghz signal .... no-one has answered that one fully yet that I can see. It is possible but not certain.

What we do know and this is based on the authors of MP and Icarus is that the programs are designed to alter the VIDEO / Telemetry 2.4Ghz power levels.

What I know is that increasing 2.4Ghz signal is not hard and does not incur much heat generation / power levels. But 5.8Ghz boosting does. So possibly its been avoided while still using stock gear.

Nigel

Nigel I after listening to you last time and confusing me along with many others I went straight to the now 65 page long thread see here: How to Update Tx-Power with Magic Power v5.0

To confirm that you can in fact trick the drone into thinking it is in an FCC area.

I was getting 230m and my 2.4 as well as 5.8ghz (slightly after maybe 1 or 2 seconds) would drop out and RTH.

Now after going into advanced settings in MP I set the drones Location to JAPAN it now raises the output from the P3S (The one we all own no matter where we live) to Japan which is FCC compliant and now the controller doesn't restrict it to CE upon starting as there is an additional file papatita created instead of changing a heap of text in the existing one he used 1 line of code to source the info from another file.

So does MP boost 5.8ghz?
Yes, but only if you are located in a CE area,
What does it boost it to?
19Dbm from the 14Dbm CE restricts it to.

Again to get the 27Dbm for 2.4ghz (Wifi) it is achieving that by bringing the controller up to FCC standards.
Boosted from 20Dbm (CE) to 27Dbm (FCC). "See attached image"

Now I am in (CE) and have done the MP upgrade. So max flight possible for me in PERFECT conditions is 500m with both CONTROL and VIDEO.

Really though it was about 230-240m in town. Now after upgrading software with MP version 5.3, nothing else at all no windsurfer not a thing! Instantly in town I average 1.2km on the edge of town the other day i got 1500m (see attached) now if 5.8ghz isn't boosted nigel then I must be the one with magic powers as that is only exceeding the max stock distance in a CE area by 3. And my actual true max distances by 6!!!

6 times further! Must be the 2.4ghz!? ;-)

One thing I have learnt very quickly here on this forum is that things change quickly and there are many people quoting "FACTS" that are only half of the information are slightly mis-informed, or what used to be the case 1 week ago may not be the case today. It makes for a great forum and for a steep learning curve but at the end of the day thanks to everyone here we have the very best source of information at our fingertips!

Regards
Brayden

 

[AvionicsAussie]

Also boosting 5.8ghz or 2.4ghz does not increase heat levels more than what is stock!

Both are only being boosted to FCC standard which is exactly what the RC does in those FCC locations. Read heaps on this the other day too. Everyone seems to think it is being "boosted" as such... it is not being boosted at all, it is being "UNRESRICTED" that is all