Called FAA today about max ceiling

[tobby]

Sorry if I am late with my response, but my P3S will give me a voice prompt and the AC will not ascend over 395 feet. Has this something to do with the latest firmware?

Tobby

 

[GadgetGuy]

Sorry if I am late with my response, but my P3S will give me a voice prompt and the AC will not ascend over 395 feet. Has this something to do with the latest firmware?

Tobby

It's an app setting. You need to first set your maximum height to up to 500m, and acknowledge a warning, to be able to fly above 400 feet, as may be required when ascending a hill!

 

[BigAl07]

That's just something I will never be able to wrap my head around and to be honest, it concerns me greatly. I mean we (the licensed and certified remote pilots) have the 400 ft AGL limit but any Tom, **** and Harry hobbyist (mostly referring to the first timer Christmas 2016 drone owners) can go out and fly irresponsibility, injury themselves or someone else resulting that those who are doing this for our family's livelihood could be at risk of losing everything due to their actions of flying stupid. These "hobbyist" flying restrictions, or shall I say non-restrictions can be a recipe that could force the FAA to impose the harshest of future rules and regulations and possibly even harsher penalties on those who fly commercially by the book.
I say, that anyone who flies a UAV of any kind should be required by law to obtain a license and/or certification just like anyone who operates a motor vehicle on the highways. This accomplishes many things but here are two; It teaches the UAV operator to work within the laws made by the FAA and ,two, it educates the uninformed so they know what things they can and things they can't do. It will prevent more problems than what it might cause IMO. Education is key and for all of our future flyings' sake, we need all the education we can get for those who are uninformed.

What is happening is here is many people don't fully understand why/how hobbyists don't have the same rules as commercial operations. It's not because the FAA favors hobbyists at all. It's because in 2012 (before many here had even heard about an "R/C MultiRotor") Congress mandated that no new laws could be written to control hobby aircraft. This was in an attempt to save/protect the local flying clubs who have been flying safely for decades.

What didn't come into the equation (short coming by Congress) is that GPS flight controls, gyro stabilization and a whole slew of other technological advances would soon come to market. These new advances would make it to where the R/C enthusiast no longer needed to learn to fly, a long nice runway, or even be able to spell the word FLY in order to have an aircraft that could fly autonomously up to over 1,000'AGL and miles in any direction.

So in order to "allow" the FAA some degree of control they added the "commercial" aspect of R/C flight. Once you fall outside of the "Hobby" definition then you have to play by the FAA rules regardless if you like it or not.

So don't think that the FAA "wants" to basically ignore hobby flights but a shortsightedness caused this huge loop hole we have to jump through.

Sorry if I am late with my response, but my P3S will give me a voice prompt and the AC will not ascend over 395 feet. Has this something to do with the latest firmware?

Tobby

You have to manually go in and over ride that limitation and that leaves YOU open to liability should something happen above 400'

 

[N017RW]

Very well said Al.
Thanks for doing that.

 

[tobby]

What is happening is here is many people don't fully understand why/how hobbyists don't have the same rules as commercial operations. It's not because the FAA favors hobbyists at all. It's because in 2012 (before many here had even heard about an "R/C MultiRotor") Congress mandated that no new laws could be written to control hobby aircraft. This was in an attempt to save/protect the local flying clubs who have been flying safely for decades.

What didn't come into the equation (short coming by Congress) is that GPS flight controls, gyro stabilization and a whole slew of other technological advances would soon come to market. These new advances would make it to where the R/C enthusiast no longer needed to learn to fly, a long nice runway, or even be able to spell the word FLY in order to have an aircraft that could fly autonomously up to over 1,000'AGL and miles in any direction.

So in order to "allow" the FAA some degree of control they added the "commercial" aspect of R/C flight. Once you fall outside of the "Hobby" definition then you have to play by the FAA rules regardless if you like it or not.

So don't think that the FAA "wants" to basically ignore hobby flights but a shortsightedness caused this huge loop hole we have to jump through.



You have to manually go in and over ride that limitation and that leaves YOU open to liability should something happen above 400'

Thanks for the replies gentlemen, I believe that 400 feet AGL is plenty of altitude for me.

Tobby

 

[GadgetGuy]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen, I believe that 400 feet AGL is plenty of altitude for me.

Tobby

Unfortunately, the altitude setting in DJI GO/GO4 knows nothing about AGL. The max elevation setting and all telemetry is only relative to your launch point. If you fly to 400 feet above your launch point, and then fly over a lower elevation below your launch point, you are now more than 400 feet AGL, but the app still reports 400 feet, but you are still in violation of the 400 foot AGL Guideline, and cannot defer liability to DJI for being in violation. As the PIC, it is your legal responsibility to know the topography of the area over which you flying, and adjust your altitude accordingly, no matter what the telemetry says. Similarly, it is perfectly legal and proper to exceed 400 feet above your launch point, as displayed in the app, if you are ascending a nearby hillside which climbs more than 400 feet, and stay 400 feet AGL throughout your ascent. The world isn't flat, even though DJI assumes it is!

 

[BuickGS]

Here is my issue, there are many "hobby" pilots out there that truly believe they will be breaking the law if they go above 400 feet from launch point and that is simply NOT true. There is NO altitude limit for hobby pilot. Commercial pilots however, have a very strick set of laws. I am by no means condoning careless flight, every pilot should take extreme care and use common sense when flying.

 

[DanMan32]

Another guideline or regs is to notify any airport within 5 miles that you are flying. Anyone know how to do that?
I did read in the FAA FAQ that the airport can object but not prohibit you flying.
I live about 4, 4.5 miles from a small airport, my dad maybe 3 miles. Local park is 3 to 4 miles. I doubt the airport cares, especially if I am well below 400 feet.
Now where I work is another matter. That's a no fly zone near TIA. I'll fly my Syma X5SW in a field there though, keeping below 100ft and dropping below treetops if I hear a plane.

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[N017RW]

If you can't figure out how to call them, why not take a drive and see them. It's less than 5 miles after all.

 

[Captain Gary]

On a VFR sectional chart the surface up to 400 ft. AGL (above ground level) is Class G uncontrolled airspace, any altitude above that is Class E airspace, utilized by manned aircraft. I am a Part 107 pilot but even if I wasn't, I would never want to be the guy who flew his drone into the path of a 757 killing a lot of people. As well as the FAA telling you there is no law in place for maximum altitude for non commercial flying, there are many laws in place for reckless use of an aircraft. If your an AMA member, you know the rules. Stay under 400 ft and fly safe, UAV's and their pilots already have enough bad rap.


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[Helihover]

On a VFR sectional chart the surface up to 400 ft. AGL (above ground level) is Class G uncontrolled airspace, any altitude above that is Class E airspace, utilized by manned aircraft. I am a Part 107 pilot but even if I wasn't, I would never want to be the guy who flew his drone into the path of a 757 killing a lot of people. As well as the FAA telling you there is no law in place for maximum altitude for non commercial flying, there are many laws in place for reckless use of an aircraft. If your an AMA member, you know the rules. Stay under 400 ft and fly safe, UAV's and their pilots already have enough bad rap.


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What??

You've got your airspaces all messed up lol. .

 

[BuickGS]

I believe class G goes up to 1200 feet AGL. Some of the charts seem a little confusing, but that is what I gathered.

 

[daveisim]

On a VFR sectional chart the surface up to 400 ft. AGL (above ground level) is Class G uncontrolled airspace, ......

I don't mean to be harsh here as it's your very first posting, but virtually everything you have written in regard to airspace is incorrect.

The surface can be Class B or C or D or E airspace. Only when it's not any of them is it Class G.

Class E does not start at 400' AGL.

There is no 400' AGL boundary for any airspace.

99.9% of all altitudes on a sectional are in MSL, not AGL. Hint: if it's AGL shown then also MSL is shown and it's for Obstructions.

 

[BuickGS]

Another guideline or regs is to notify any airport within 5 miles that you are flying. Anyone know how to do that?
I did read in the FAA FAQ that the airport can object but not prohibit you flying.
I live about 4, 4.5 miles from a small airport, my dad maybe 3 miles. Local park is 3 to 4 miles. I doubt the airport cares, especially if I am well below 400 feet.
Now where I work is another matter. That's a no fly zone near TIA. I'll fly my Syma X5SW in a field there though, keeping below 100ft and dropping below treetops if I hear a plane.

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I have small airport just under 5 miles from my property, I called them to ask if I needed to advise them when I fly and they stated they did not need me to advise them. I wanted to at least check with them just to make sure. Because that particular item IS a law.

 

[N017RW]

I have small airport just under 5 miles from my property, I called them to ask if I needed to advise them when I fly and they stated they did not need me to advise them. I wanted to at least check with them just to make sure. Because that particular item IS a law.

I'd get that in writing and file it away.

 

[BuickGS]

I'd get that in writing and file it away.

To be honest, the guy (at the airport) seemed aggravated that I called and asked him. I wonder if he really even understood the question.

 

[BigAl07]

Another guideline or regs is to notify any airport within 5 miles that you are flying. Anyone know how to do that?
I did read in the FAA FAQ that the airport can object but not prohibit you flying.

If you think they can't prohibit you from flying I think you'll be sadly surprised if you cause a "safety concern" for the tower. They can prohibit you from a flight if it creates any type of safety concern.

Be very clear.... their #1 priority is safe flight and if you jeopardize that in any way you might get some unwanted company during your flight.

 

[Phil56]

Below are the FAA's guidelines for hobbyist pilots. They can be found here:

Fly for Fun

Before you fly outside you must:
- Register your UAS if it weighs more than 0.55 pounds and less than 55 pounds
- Label your UAS with your registration number
- Read and understand all safety guidelines

Safety Guidelines
- Fly at or below 400 feet
- Keep your UAS within sight
- Never fly near other aircraft, especially near airports
- Never fly over groups of people
- Never fly over stadiums or sports events
- Never fly near emergency response efforts such as fires
- Never fly under the influence
- Be aware of airspace requirements

I suppose it would be possible to interpret "guidelines" in this context as something other than "the law", but considering some of the penalties being assessed by the FAA, that may be risky.

In a broader context, it is important to always consider the impact your actions can have on other drone pilots, hobbyist and commercial. If all of us begin pushing those "guidelines", do we not ultimately impact the hobby/livelihood and enjoyment of everyone else?

Just some friendly and well-intentioned food for thought.


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And one of them is. Keep your UAS in sight. And I have to say I always do. But some posts I read. Like the guy going out miles would be impossible.


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[Steven Graham]

^ This right here.

While there is no specific altitude limit for part 101 pilots the CBO programming most claim to operate under, that of the AMA, requires you to remain within sight of your aircraft. So in reality there is a very practical legal limitation to how high/far you can fly. How far away can you see your phantom?

 

[JesterPhotog]

I posted a pic on my FB the other day and stated that I took it from 600 feet up. A couple of people warned me that I was only allowed to go up to 400 feet. I shared with them the fact that the 400 foot max was a part 107 rule and hobby fliers do not fall under that category. After a few more posts back and forth I deiced to end the debate and call the FAA UAS center. I explained that I was a hobby flyer, and that I understood that I was not restricted under part 107. He said that was correct. I asked him what my max ceiling was and he said there is none. He stated that they prefer I stay under 400 feet, but there is no law or regulation that says I have to.

Now, with that said, most of my time will be spent well under 400 feet. But I AM going up to at least 1000 feet once to get a few pictures.

Thank you for closing this debate. I have argued with so many people that flying as a Hobbyist you don't need to stay below 400ft. A big debate up here in Seattle was the guy who flew the Inspire in to the Space Needle (obviously he messed up, i'm thinking return to home was not set high enough) and all the uninformed people who didn't own UAVs and even some that did wanted to say that he was in clear violation because he was over 400 ft. And you can't argue with stupid i have learned. Just read the the publications of the FAA. "Guidelines" are different from "Regulations".