Would you say anything?

[GMack]

I drove by a city park yesterday and saw a dad with his young son in the middle of the open field setting up a Phantom to fly. The Phantom was on the ground and was an older one with the colored tape on the arms. Dad and son were huddled over the controller maybe 10 feet away from it, and I could see pop pointing out things on the controller that the son (Maybe 6 years old.) was holding.

I know the city doesn't allow drones at all in the local parks under an ordinance, plus he was only one mile from the airport and slightly to the side of the final approach path to the runway.

Would you stop and say anything to him about the FAA rules about the airport a couple of blocks away or the city ordinance?

(Fwiw, I didn't, but wondered if he even knew of them?)

 

[Neon Euc]

Nothing wrong at all with advising him about how near the airport he was. He would be greatful I'm sure as you would have prevented anything bad from happening like the drone striking a plane, esp if the little boy flew as he would have no idea about any rules and to him, the drone will always be about how high and how far it can go

Neon Euc

 

[dwallersv]

Being a Dad, I'd handle it this way: Approach with a smile and strike up a conversation about drones and how much fun they are. Talk a little about fun flying with my own son. Then mention that the authorities are really cracking down, and wondered if Dad was familiar with the restrictions? Explain that technically he shouldn't be flying there, is within a mile of an airport, etc., and that people are getting nailed for these things. So be careful. Probably okay to just hover it around a bit 10-20 feet off the ground over the field and have some fun with the kid. Would likely just get kicked out of the park for that, if anything.

Keep it low and close, and have a good time. Read up on the rules (make sure you're registered!), and take it out to some good open space for some major flying!

 

[Richard R]

Warning someone in the spirit of helping a fellow flier should be encouraged. Of course in this day and age, you never know how people will react, but that shouldn't deter us from doing so.

 

[matthewsjl]

And this is exactly the point where the FAA rules are slightly unfit for purpose. Essentially, if you're below the tree line, there won't be any fixed/rotor wing manned aircraft to conflict with - and yet the FAA maintain the stance of "surface" as their zero point. Heck, that means technically hovering in your back yard 4ft off the ground is not in line with the FAA rules........ next thing I'll have to do is mark up a kite with an FAA registration - there's a point where it gets silly.

AFAIK, my park next to my house doesn't have any restrictions on drones. I take the drone out in the same way that I sometimes take a fixed wing model (styrofoam Piper Cub) and have a fly around (below or at the tree line). Keep it safe, slow and controlled and be aware of your surroundings/people.

Personally (and I'll stress this is a personal view), the FAA facilities really don't need to know if you're flying below the tree line (yes legally, they do). They do care when you're above the trees and some areas like approaches to runways are more sensitive than others (be sensible).

Specifically to your point, I'd go across and say something - just frame it in a positive way.

John.

 

[QuadcopterCrazy]

And this is exactly the point where the FAA rules are slightly unfit for purpose. Essentially, if you're below the tree line, there won't be any fixed/rotor wing manned aircraft to conflict with - and yet the FAA maintain the stance of "surface" as their zero point. Heck, that means technically hovering in your back yard 4ft off the ground is not in line with the FAA rules........ next thing I'll have to do is mark up a kite with an FAA registration - there's a point where it gets silly.

AFAIK, my park next to my house doesn't have any restrictions on drones. I take the drone out in the same way that I sometimes take a fixed wing model (styrofoam Piper Cub) and have a fly around (below or at the tree line). Keep it safe, slow and controlled and be aware of your surroundings/people.

Personally (and I'll stress this is a personal view), the FAA facilities really don't need to know if you're flying below the tree line (yes legally, they do). They do care when you're above the trees and some areas like approaches to runways are more sensitive than others (be sensible).

Specifically to your point, I'd go across and say something - just frame it in a positive way.

John.

I think your way of doing it would of been perfect and a way not to come off as ****** and know it all.

 

[MapMaker53]

I understand the below tree line argument, but in this particular case I think it is still a danger to aircraft, considering a 6 year old will be at the controls and is likely to either want to or accidentally send it sky high at some point.

 

[matthewsjl]

I understand the below tree line argument, but in this particular case I think it is still a danger to aircraft, considering a 6 year old will be at the controls and is likely to either want to or accidentally send it sky high at some point.

I'm a licensed Commercial fixed-wing pilot as well as having the Part 107 UAS. Each has our own definition of risk but if properly supervised (key thing), there shouldn't be significant risk. There may be a desire to send it sky high but if operating below the tree line, it will take a good chunk of time to get to an altitude that is in conflict with fixed wing aircraft. In that time the supervising person should be able to wrestle the controls away and bring the drone back. I wasn't for a minute suggesting that a 6yo fly the drone alone and unaccompanied.

I'll admit that risk goes up when nearer to an approach end of a runway but I still think there is enough time to recover an errant 6yo pilot without causing a conflict.

John.

 

[MapMaker53]

Well, a fixed-wing pilot would know better than I, so I value your opinion regarding that.

 

[JCP10]

Nobody has said this as far as I know, so I'll add it. My first P4 flight was in the "enhanced" green zone of a Class D airport. I sent the bird up about .... 60 feet, and got that screen (hard to see it on my phone) where you have to check off that you understand where you are. I had no idea what this was all about, and it took me a couple of flights over a few weeks to sort it out properly.

All the above responses were very good; but in addition to the FAA rules, someone might want to explain that the DJI GO software might pose a problem because of the proximity of the airport. I was totally freaked out by this more than once; but I figured it out. It would be a lot worse if I were teaching a little one (6 years old is pretty darn young for a Phantom pilot) to fly. Safety issues alone....

 

[MTH]

And this is exactly the point where the FAA rules are slightly unfit for purpose. Essentially, if you're below the tree line, there won't be any fixed/rotor wing manned aircraft to conflict with - and yet the FAA maintain the stance of "surface" as their zero point. Heck, that means technically hovering in your back yard 4ft off the ground is not in line with the FAA rules........ next thing I'll have to do is mark up a kite with an FAA registration - there's a point where it gets silly.

AFAIK, my park next to my house doesn't have any restrictions on drones. I take the drone out in the same way that I sometimes take a fixed wing model (styrofoam Piper Cub) and have a fly around (below or at the tree line). Keep it safe, slow and controlled and be aware of your surroundings/people.

Personally (and I'll stress this is a personal view), the FAA facilities really don't need to know if you're flying below the tree line (yes legally, they do). They do care when you're above the trees and some areas like approaches to runways are more sensitive than others (be sensible).

Specifically to your point, I'd go across and say something - just frame it in a positive way.

John.

Better make sure you put your FAA number on your kids balloons. Make sure you fly them safely, stay away crowds and don't let them get away or they might exceed the 400' ceiling.

 

[MTH]

One of the eight city parks in my area listed, by the Dept. of Parks and Recreation, as allowing drones is, according to B4UFLY - Airmap - and Kittyhawk, within a class B area. From what I understand is a no fly zone. Three are within five miles of an airport with multiple heliports near by and one other only has about a half dozen heliports near by. In correspondence from Parks and Recreation there is no mention of any of this. I believe this to be a way for a city to meet a state mandate to allow drone flight in at least one city park, as long as the city has two or more parks, but still reduce flights in the city. If you get fined or worse by the FAA while flying in one of these parks it's not the cities problem.

 

[eatpasta]

@GMack I definitely would have at least told them about registering/their proximity to the airport if they weren't already aware...

 

[BigAl07]

I think (and yes this is only my opinion) that dwallersv and Richard_R had excellent answers. Some of us are always looking to encourage and help others just getting started. I take every opportunity to talk sUAS with anyone and everyone. We all learned one way or another so let's pay it forward when we can.

In regards to "I'm just flying below tree line"... That's fine but remember this generation of aircraft have a mind of their own (literally). They can and DO Fly Away way too often. Now who does this happen to most often? NEW operators... So what happens if the HOME POINT is inaccurate and the New Operator has a brain cramp (or the aircraft has a GPS/Compass Malfunction) and RTH kicks in? This aircraft that was "flying just below the tree line" could in theory head up and directly into the path of a manned aircraft. It's a lot more than just where you "intend to fly" with semi-autonomous aircraft.

That's my my 2-cents.

 

[dwallersv]

I understand the below tree line argument, but in this particular case I think it is still a danger to aircraft, considering a 6 year old will be at the controls and is likely to either want to or accidentally send it sky high at some point.

That's a very good point.

While not necessarily useful for this particular circumstance, its a very good point to understand and maybe act upon it by setting the ceiling in the app to something like 50ft before giving it to the kid to fly.

 

[DigitalSkyPilot]

During my Kite Aerial Photography days Homeland Security said to stay 500 ft. away from any bridges, people or buildings. I also attached a disco ball mirror on the line to alert low flying aircraft of my presence. Although we are allowed to fly to 400 ft. with our drones and kites I have seen many ultra light aircraft skimming over the trees along the Lake Huron Shoreline. Also Military aircraft who like to follow the shoreline at low altitude and rattle the windows on the cabin. It is not a no fly area and not near any airports. All I can do is drop and avoid.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

There are small, "toy" drones for kids. The Phantom series drones are NOT in the "toy" category. There are also adults that are unconsciously unaware of what they don't know regarding safe flying procedures or local area restrictions. That's an issue. As indicated above, I believe you should have addressed the issue on the spot. What matters is how you address it with the man and his son.

In the same manner, I have been cleared to fly in many areas marked "no drones" by just approaching the appropriate authority properly. Again, it's a matter of how you approach others.

Most people react positively when you approach them properly. Some don't. In this case, the issue must be addressed differently, but it must be addressed if we don't want more regulatory controls to totally end our rights to enjoy our drones.

 

[AlecW]

My other hobby is jeeping and we self police but tend to do the opposite of the recommendations above most of the time. It maybe due to the remoteness of the hobby but I would never confront another jeeper, atv riders etc. who was recklessly tearing up a meadow or going off trail in the middle of nowhere. Who knows what firearms they may have etc. What we do is take pictures discreetly, get the license numbers and then report them to the authorities (forest service, BLM etc.) after the fact. It's working out pretty well, the forest service takes action and appreciate it.

We have volunteer groups that help maintain trails and put signs up about staying on designated trails etc. and work with the forest service. We let them handle educating people and/or prosecuting them.

Just adding another perspective and it may not be relevant.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

AlecW you have a good point. I mentioned that "most" people act positively. You certainly must be able to judge or size up people before you try to "help" them. What I also hear you saying is that certain affinity groups might impose a stronger risk than others if you try to do the "policing" rather than call the proper authorities.

 

[matthewsjl]

There are small, "toy" drones for kids. The Phantom series drones are NOT in the "toy" category.

I agree with that statement but that doesn't mean that an older child shouldn't be able to enjoy a Phantom with a parent under close supervision. I would say that starting the child on the smaller drones first is a smart move (and my son started on the Micro Drone 3 - and can fly that pretty well too). One aspect you have to judge is skill and maturity - and to a certain extent decision making...... and much of that is built on experience which you only get with handling time. By the way, the same can be said of anybody flying light aircraft - you technically get enough skill to pass an FAA test at 40-50h legally but your decision making (and handling skills) improves with hours accumulated.

Interestingly, I also had my oldest handle the flight controls of my Cessna 182 when he was 8 or so. He could do level flight, and some basic un-cordinated turns (mainly due to the fact that his legs couldn't reach the rudder pedals ). All was safely done at altitude and with my complete supervision..... but it was a nice introduction.

John