First Real Trip with Drone (Michigan); Few Questions

EhmayWuntee · May 31, 2018

I'd like to put my mind at ease and cover my basis ahead of time so any information you guys can help with would be appreciated!

On June 12th I will be traveling to Michigan for 5 days and it will be the first time I have taken my P4P on an airplane or to some busier cities/parks.

1) Nothing new has popped up in the last few months in regards to transporting a drone on an airplane, correct? I've done plenty of reading and research to get other peoples experiences and understand the best way to transport things, but a lot of the information was up to a few years old so I wanted to double check on any recent changes. (All the general basics I have down and covered

)

2) I know there are some online maps to try and see if I am in a particular airport's radius, but are the phone numbers accurate on those and is that really all I need to do to get approval to fly for like 30 minutes, just call ATC and get their OK for what will be my recreational flying under 400 ft? (So far I haven't had to fly anywhere close to an airport.)

3) What is the luck/chances on getting approval from a national park to fly for a bit? I think I will be near Sleeping Bear Dunes so might stop by.

4) These are some of the places I will be going, so does anyone have experience in the following places and can share tips on neat places to check-out/fly or warn me of trouble:

a) Detroit area (perhaps no chance of flying within 5 miles of their major airport?)
b) Frankenmuth
c) Mackinac Island
d) Traverse City
e) Anything along the way driving to those places

I am hoping to get a few really nice photos that I will try having printed in a size larger than the 8.5x11 that I can do myself. That will be the first time seeing how good the picture quality is when blown up a bit (16x20 maybe?).

loonie01 · Jun 1, 2018

Downtown Detroit has some good scenery. Just took this one the other night. Also the new Little Caesars arena (doesn't have a no fly zone yet) Ford Field which is right next to Comerica Park, Fox Theater, Old train station, Motor City Casino, Joe Louis Arena and the Ambassador Bridge. Comerica Park may have a no fly zone around game time though.

EhmayWuntee · Jun 1, 2018

All/most of those are in legal to fly areas outside of the airport airspace or are you just going for it and never been questioned or stopped? I’ll be sure to check them on a map and mark some down to visit because they sound great.

The bridge is the one leading to Canada, right? I’m kind of surprised that’s fine to fly near with it being an international border.

For most of these are you taking off from a parking lot or something semi-open? I’m not used to a dense city so that might seem odd or strange to fly near a bunch of on-lookers.

I did forget that I plan to go to the Tiger’s game on the 12th I believe.

loonie01 · Jun 1, 2018

All of the areas are legal to fly. The nearest airport is the city airport on the east side of Detroit. Downtown is just out of the 5 mile range of it. There are a few heliports in the area. Helicopters are usually what you would have to look out for. The Ambassador Bridge is the one going to Canada. As long as your not over the entry/exit of the bridge and on the U.S. side, you should be fine. Small planes and coast guard usually fly over the river. Belle Isle is a good place to get some good pics of Detroit Riverfront.

Meta4 · Jun 1, 2018

EhmayWuntee said:
I am hoping to get a few really nice photos that I will try having printed in a size larger than the 8.5x11 that I can do myself. That will be the first time seeing how good the picture quality is when blown up a bit (16x20 maybe?).

If the images are good, 16 x 20 is no problem.
I visited a client recently and they have 4 of my pix on their office wall blown up to 36 inches and they looked great.

umanbean · Jun 1, 2018

loonie01 said:
Downtown Detroit has some good scenery. Just took this one the other night.

Very nice photo!

flockshot · Jun 1, 2018

You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.
Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

EDIT: I POSTED THIS INFORMATION BASED ON FALSE INFORMATION THAT I HAD RECEIVED. I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR THE POST AND WANT FUTURE READERS TO KNOW THAT IT IS FALSE INFORMATION. I APPOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.

EhmayWuntee · Jun 1, 2018

flockshot said:
You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.
Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

I take it you have tried to fly on the island and got turned down then? That was going to be one that seemed like a good opportunity so it's sad to hear it will likely be a no-go. State parks I know are up to the ranger or whatever title, but I am also surprised county and city parks are against flying. Do some of these have actual signs up or anything showing drones are prohibited?

Looks like I might be more limited than I hoped so I will just have to find more in-between locations to capture some shots or get real nice ones wherever I do end up flying. Something involving a large lake was going to be ideal since I am not near anything like that without driving 3-4 hours to the Gulf Coast.

Thanks for the input/expertise.

flockshot · Jun 1, 2018

I have not tried to fly on Mackinaw Island. I know better. The State of Michigan has made it a no drone zone. There is an airport on the island, and planes are not allowed to fly over the island as part of their traffic pattern. They must remain offshore. The only vehicles allowed in the summer time are a ambulance and a fire truck. Everything from freight to passengers travel only by foot, bicycle or horse. So, there is no chance at all of gaining approval to fly drones on Mackinaw Island. I agree with that drone restriction.
As for the parks that ban drones, this is another mater. After all, hunting is allowed in many parks during the fall seasons, but drones are a no go. I live near one large open park area that has a AMA field, but you are restricted to that one field and must be a member of the AMA, so the AMA has that locked up. Nobody else can fly.
There are however, huge tracks of State owned land that is open to public use. Miles of shoreline with no restrictions (particularly in the Upper Peninsula) and beautiful lakes and rivers and outstanding scenery.
So, like many other places, if you look around and see a lot of people, you probably can't fly there.

photogBS · Jun 1, 2018

You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.<br />Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

Flockshot, do you know of any online resources that say you can't fly in Michigan State parks? Just curious. Belle Isle was mentioned earlier in the thread, and I have flown there with no problems, it is now a State owned area. I was not aware it wasn't allowed to fly drones in state parks. I have also flown in state rec areas and metroparks. Metroparks actually state on their website that drones are allowed as long as faa rules are adhered to. They do have a provision that you can't fly over bath houses. I have also been to different state parks, only a couple of them have signs posted that drones are not permitted such as around the lighthouse on the Leelenau Peninsula. Just wondering if you can't point me in the right direction so I know I am flying legally. Thanks!

flockshot · Jun 1, 2018

photogBS said:
You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.<br />Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

Flockshot, do you know of any online resources that say you can't fly in Michigan State parks? Just curious. Belle Isle was mentioned earlier in the thread, and I have flown there with no problems, it is now a State owned area. I was not aware it wasn't allowed to fly drones in state parks. I have also flown in state rec areas and metroparks. Metroparks actually state on their website that drones are allowed as long as faa rules are adhered to. They do have a provision that you can't fly over bath houses. I have also been to different state parks, only a couple of them have signs posted that drones are not permitted such as around the lighthouse on the Leelenau Peninsula. Just wondering if you can't point me in the right direction so I know I am flying legally. Thanks!

I have looked and I can not find you a definitive source that says anything other than the laws are vague.
My source was a front porch conversation from a couple days ago. A candidate for State Representative was campaigning and asked me what I would like to see changed in the State. I started a conversation about availability and acceptance of drone flying in Michigan. It was he, who informed me about not flying in State Parks, but after looking in response to your post, I can not confirm that.
So, I guess we need someone to test it.

flockshot · Jun 1, 2018

PhotogBS, you are teaching me something today that I did not know. I went to the list of State Parks and started going through them one at a time to see what I could find on drone rules. I can't find mention of them one way or the other. Places like the Holly Recreation Area use the model airplane symbol, but that is for an AMA field. So, I have to say I was wrong to state that State Parks are no fly zones for Michigan.

EhmayWuntee · Jun 1, 2018

First off, I know it is pronounced Mackinaw, but is it actually spelled Mackinac? That's what google maps shows it as at least so I went with that... perhaps a silent/fancy "c"?

Anyway, I've been there once like... 15 years ago and remember the no cars/motor vehicles thing, but I guess figured that wouldn't outlaw electronics such as a drone. I could see the airport itself not authorizing the use though if they so choose.

Anyone able to chime in one questions 1 and 2?

1) Nothing new has popped up in the last few months in regards to transporting a drone on an airplane, correct? I've done plenty of reading and research to get other peoples experiences and understand the best way to transport things, but a lot of the information was up to a few years old so I wanted to double check on any recent changes. (All the general basics I have down and covered

)

2) I know there are some online maps to try and see if I am in a particular airport's radius, but are the phone numbers accurate on those and is that really all I need to do to get approval to fly for like 30 minutes, just call ATC and get their OK for what will be my recreational flying under 400 ft? (So far I haven't had to fly anywhere close to an airport.)

I remember Belle Isle a little bit and will check it out for flying.

Just to clarify flockshot, you mention lots of good scenery and open shoreline, but then say if people are there you cannot fly. Are you saying an empty piece of shoreline is probably fine, but if populated it won't be allowed because it is either a restricted park or perhaps just the fact that you can't fly over a group of non-participating people?

Also just to clarify, a lot (if not most) of these locations I plan to just get the bird up and capture some footage pretty close by (within 1000 ft horizontally) and don't plan to try some 1/2 mile exploration. This may or may not change a few things (such as Frankenmuth), but wanted to make it clear.

flockshot · Jun 2, 2018

EhmayWuntee said:
First off, I know it is pronounced Mackinaw, but is it actually spelled Mackinac? That's what google maps shows it as at least so I went with that... perhaps a silent/fancy "c"?

Anyway, I've been there once like... 15 years ago and remember the no cars/motor vehicles thing, but I guess figured that wouldn't outlaw electronics such as a drone. I could see the airport itself not authorizing the use though if they so choose.

Anyone able to chime in one questions 1 and 2?

1) Nothing new has popped up in the last few months in regards to transporting a drone on an airplane, correct? I've done plenty of reading and research to get other peoples experiences and understand the best way to transport things, but a lot of the information was up to a few years old so I wanted to double check on any recent changes. (All the general basics I have down and covered )

2) I know there are some online maps to try and see if I am in a particular airport's radius, but are the phone numbers accurate on those and is that really all I need to do to get approval to fly for like 30 minutes, just call ATC and get their OK for what will be my recreational flying under 400 ft? (So far I haven't had to fly anywhere close to an airport.)

I remember Belle Isle a little bit and will check it out for flying.

Just to clarify flockshot, you mention lots of good scenery and open shoreline, but then say if people are there you cannot fly. Are you saying an empty piece of shoreline is probably fine, but if populated it won't be allowed because it is either a restricted park or perhaps just the fact that you can't fly over a group of non-participating people?

Also just to clarify, a lot (if not most) of these locations I plan to just get the bird up and capture some footage pretty close by (within 1000 ft horizontally) and don't plan to try some 1/2 mile exploration. This may or may not change a few things (such as Frankenmuth), but wanted to make it clear.

Yes it is pronounced Mackinaw, regardless of the spelling, and you will see it spelled both ways. Goes back to French and British pronunciation since both controlled the fort.
After my posts yesterday, I am finding out that I have been under some misconceptions about drone restrictions in my own state. As a matter of fact Senate Bill 0715 was referred to committee on 5/10/18 and that is the bill allowing Mackinaw Island to regulate drone flights, so that is also up in the air.
As for the shoreline, yes just don't fly over non-partisipants and take off from public land, like everywhere else. For the flights you are talking about, I doubt you will have problems. Sleeping Bear National Lakeshore (north west lower peninsula) and Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore (portion of north shore of upper peninsula) are off limits, but not much else, they are both depicted on the charts.
I apologize for the misinformation I posted and I am doing my homework on bills that are in the State Legislature to try and not do that again. I hope you enjoy Michigan and get some great footage to take home.
Airports you are calling, and not being able to contact, are probably not manned on a full time basis.

photogBS · Jun 2, 2018

EhmayWuntee said:
I'd like to put my mind at ease and cover my basis ahead of time so any information you guys can help with would be appreciated!

On June 12th I will be traveling to Michigan for 5 days and it will be the first time I have taken my P4P on an airplane or to some busier cities/parks.

1) Nothing new has popped up in the last few months in regards to transporting a drone on an airplane, correct? I've done plenty of reading and research to get other peoples experiences and understand the best way to transport things, but a lot of the information was up to a few years old so I wanted to double check on any recent changes. (All the general basics I have down and covered )

2) I know there are some online maps to try and see if I am in a particular airport's radius, but are the phone numbers accurate on those and is that really all I need to do to get approval to fly for like 30 minutes, just call ATC and get their OK for what will be my recreational flying under 400 ft? (So far I haven't had to fly anywhere close to an airport.)

3) What is the luck/chances on getting approval from a national park to fly for a bit? I think I will be near Sleeping Bear Dunes so might stop by.

4) These are some of the places I will be going, so does anyone have experience in the following places and can share tips on neat places to check-out/fly or warn me of trouble:

a) Detroit area (perhaps no chance of flying within 5 miles of their major airport?)
b) Frankenmuth
c) Mackinac Island
d) Traverse City
e) Anything along the way driving to those places

I am hoping to get a few really nice photos that I will try having printed in a size larger than the 8.5x11 that I can do myself. That will be the first time seeing how good the picture quality is when blown up a bit (16x20 maybe?).

As for question 1 tsa still just wants you to carry on the lithium ion batteries.

As for calling the towers, some have operators standing by and they will just request approximate god location, how long you will be flying and maybe a few other questions. I have called some of the towers using the FAA b4ufly app with no problem. Some of the smaller airports won't answer or have an answering machine. In that case I leave a detailed message with my flight plan and hopefully that's enough to cover my butt.

Phantom_Crasher · Jun 2, 2018

flockshot said:
You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.
Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

I have personally flown my P4P and Mavic in start parks in Michigan. Ludington State park in several different areas of the park. Just follow the common sense rules that apply and there are no issues. Also have flown recently and multiple times in Yankee Springs Recreation area, while camping a week ago. Just follow the rules, don't hot dog around and you will be fine. Park rangers have observed my flights on multiple occasions. I did think that I heard a rumor about the "No fly at Mackinaw Island". Never made it that far.

Phantom_Crasher · Jun 2, 2018

photogBS said:
You are not allowed to fly on, or around Mackinaw island. No flying in State, and most county or municipal parks.<br />Frankenmuth is a small area, but very crowded. There is an airport there, and they sometimes have hot air balloons, but since there is no profit in letting you fly your drone, I would not plan on flying over the town.

Flockshot, do you know of any online resources that say you can't fly in Michigan State parks? Just curious. Belle Isle was mentioned earlier in the thread, and I have flown there with no problems, it is now a State owned area. I was not aware it wasn't allowed to fly drones in state parks. I have also flown in state rec areas and metroparks. Metroparks actually state on their website that drones are allowed as long as faa rules are adhered to. They do have a provision that you can't fly over bath houses. I have also been to different state parks, only a couple of them have signs posted that drones are not permitted such as around the lighthouse on the Leelenau Peninsula. Just wondering if you can't point me in the right direction so I know I am flying legally. Thanks!

Just returned from a camping trip at Yankee Springs Recreation Area (Gun Lake) camp ground. There is a peninsula that has a large area including a boat launch, public beach area and a ton of open space to fly a quad. Been there quite a few times and talked to rangers more than once. Just need to follow the drone rules and be polite. = no problems. Same at Ludington State Park. Rangers there are very friendly. Don't fly stupid, stay safe have fun. First flight over major water here. Safe return more than once.

EhmayWuntee · Jun 2, 2018

Phantom_Crasher, are you talking to the rangers before take off?

State parks are maybe more friendly, but national parks are for sure at the approval of a ranger first, correct? (Prohibited unless given approval) I guess some, maybe all, national parks are programmed as no fly zones and you maybe can't take off even if you got verbal permission.

I did find articles that Mackinac restricts all drones unless you get a permit approved by city council so it sounds like not even worth trying a phone call there.

I just hope to get a few solid photos wherever I do actually fly since I likely won't be back.

Phantom_Crasher · Jun 3, 2018

EhmayWuntee said:
Phantom_Crasher, are you talking to the rangers before take off?

State parks are maybe more friendly, but national parks are for sure at the approval of a ranger first, correct? (Prohibited unless given approval) I guess some, maybe all, national parks are programmed as no fly zones and you maybe can't take off even if you got verbal permission.

I did find articles that Mackinac restricts all drones unless you get a permit approved by city council so it sounds like not even worth trying a phone call there.

I just hope to get a few solid photos wherever I do actually fly since I likely won't be back.

I only spoke with a park ranger the very first time I took my quad to Ludington. I asked if there were any restrictions that would prevent me from flying in the state park area. I have never flown in any of the campground areas. I have only flown over the lake, river and sand dune areas of the park, making sure to avoid people and vehicles.