Thought about that though if mine gets lost it will probably be in an area with no cell service. Welcome to New Mexico.jdawson said:
Wi-Fi on Hero making Phantoms disappear?
- Thread starter MX45OR
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pwright said:
I just preordered a Blutracker, it is a small gps tracking device that uses long range Bluetooth 4.0, and not cellular service. $69, the battery lasts for two months and it weighs like 16 grams. They claim a 2500 ft range in line of sight. If I got half that I'd be happy. I also fly in areas with limited cell service. It won't ship till next month, but I'll let you guys know how it works out for me.
http://blutracker.com/
Adam said:
I'd be leery of running the BLUtracker. Bluetooth operates at 2.4 Ghz spread spectrum. It could interfere with the communication with the Phantom. Some that build the larger model rockets use the Garmin Astro dog tracker. It has a range of 9 miles in direct line. Google (Garmin Astro rocket) for more info.
Have mounted GoPro with EyeFi (SD) memory on my DJI Phantom. When pictures / film transferred from SD it has not affected the phantom in flight, but I have a suspicion that this may not be entirely good for GPS / remote control's signals...
Where's it written in the docs that you shouldn't use the GoPro wifi bacpac?
Do you reckon it would make a difference if you were just using it with the remote control as a shutter release, rather than streaming video? Does wireless output depend on actual traffic, or is it always "on" and broadcasting just to hold the connection?
Do you reckon it would make a difference if you were just using it with the remote control as a shutter release, rather than streaming video? Does wireless output depend on actual traffic, or is it always "on" and broadcasting just to hold the connection?
mroberts said:
it's not in the manual --- it's stated in the FAQ section of their website, quoted below
"Can I fly my Phantom with any WiFi function enabled equipment?
No, the WiFi signal may interfere with the signal of the transmitter and affect your flight."
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So are people losing these in GPS mode or ATTI mode or both, IOC on or off? Most of the reports I read were that the Phantom just took off straight up and disappeared so a dog tracker might help you find something valuable like possibly the GoPro in one of these " straight up scenarios" but there would be little left unless it was lucky enoughto hit in a fir forrest to slow the momentum.
I always figured these Fly offs were caused by the GPS mode itself so I have never switched into it personally, either that or flying in ATTI mode and getting too far away which will probably be my demise some day. The 40 flights and lost it in eastern oregon makes me nervous because this sounds like experienced flyer losing one for no reason. Has anyone upgraded the TX/RX and lost one of these yet, I wonder if the DJI Transmitter is at fault and uses cheesy components. Between IOC and GPS, thats a lot of stuff packed in a small package. Is there a forum for fly aways to tell their stories so maybe a reason or conclusion of how to avoid them can be figured out?
I always figured these Fly offs were caused by the GPS mode itself so I have never switched into it personally, either that or flying in ATTI mode and getting too far away which will probably be my demise some day. The 40 flights and lost it in eastern oregon makes me nervous because this sounds like experienced flyer losing one for no reason. Has anyone upgraded the TX/RX and lost one of these yet, I wonder if the DJI Transmitter is at fault and uses cheesy components. Between IOC and GPS, thats a lot of stuff packed in a small package. Is there a forum for fly aways to tell their stories so maybe a reason or conclusion of how to avoid them can be figured out?
Mark P said:
it really is a bit of a mystery as to why many fly-aways occur.
But just to comfort you, even if you're flying in ATTI and the phantom loses signal, the Enhanced Failsafe (RTH), will kick in. even if you're flying in manual mode.
I don't see that being likely unless it was because the operator had failed to get a home lock before taking off. In which case if it lost connection to the transmitter during the flight it might try to go to the previous home lock which could be far away.Mark P said:
I'm guessing this is behind several of them.Mark P said:
as stated either in this thread or another thread, fly aways or rogue phantoms are caused by the RX receiving an unknown signal. let me reiterate that it is the RX that is receiving an unknown signal that is causing these fly away and NOT because the phantom lost GPS signal.
basically what this equates to is the possibility of the wifi on the gopro3 (or any other wifi enabled device) introducing a signal to the phantom that will override the signal from the TX. wifi devices uses the same 2.4 ghz band that we use to control the phantom.
so, if the phantom is flown a good distance away from the TX, the signal from the TX would become weaker than the signal from the wifi device attached to the phantom. thus causing the phantom to not RTH even when you turn off the power on the TX. at this point, the phantom thinks that the signal from the wifi IS the signal from the TX. in another thread, a member of this forum found his phantom over 2 miles away after it went rogue so the only possible explination is that the phantom was getting a command signal from something very close to the phantom (2.4 ghz range is only about 600-900 feet line of sight).
basically what this equates to is the possibility of the wifi on the gopro3 (or any other wifi enabled device) introducing a signal to the phantom that will override the signal from the TX. wifi devices uses the same 2.4 ghz band that we use to control the phantom.
so, if the phantom is flown a good distance away from the TX, the signal from the TX would become weaker than the signal from the wifi device attached to the phantom. thus causing the phantom to not RTH even when you turn off the power on the TX. at this point, the phantom thinks that the signal from the wifi IS the signal from the TX. in another thread, a member of this forum found his phantom over 2 miles away after it went rogue so the only possible explination is that the phantom was getting a command signal from something very close to the phantom (2.4 ghz range is only about 600-900 feet line of sight).
And this is still pure speculation. Without someone modifying a Phantom with some serious instrumentation to actually detect such interference and record that information that is all it will ever be.auck said:
This is likely to be true but once again is unknowable as the Phantom does not log this information.auck said:
And while this might be possible the signal from the WiFi doesn't look anything like the signal from your TX and the Phantom is not going to interpret what is essentially noise as actual control signals. If the interfering signal (WiFi or otherwise) completely overwhelms that from the TX then it should be just as if it had no TX signal at all.auck said:
Or he had it in ATTI mode and the last signal it received was to fly in some direction which it did. Or it flew through some other source of RF interference which prevented the TX signals from getting to it. Or freaking solar flares.auck said:
It's all speculation as no one has actual proof about what really happened in these flyaways.
Are such flyaways unique to the Phantom or are other aircraft with similar electronics also getting away?
GPS is NOT required for the phantom to operate. if it was true that the phantom needed GPS to operate, we would not be able to fly in ATTI, course lock, home lock or MANUAL mode.
Since the phantom has the RTH with enhanced features that would activate in the case that the phantom no longer has signal from the TX (TX turned off or what ever the case), it is only logical to conclude that the phantom is then receiving a signal from somewhere that would make it continue operation instead of RTH.
in ATTI mode, as soon as you let go of the control stick, the phantom will "slide" along the path it was going (an object in motion stays in motion until acted upon by another force.... sounds familiar?). however it will not continue at the same speed in the same direction because it would no longer have the command to do so. because of air friction, wind and other external forces, the momentum of the craft will slow down rather quickly and would not have been able to carry itself 2 miles away.
RF cross signals can occur, but for the craft to continue to receive such a signal until it ran out of battery (after 2 miles of flight) can only be attributed to a unit that is in close proximity with the craft for that duration of flight. the RF band of 2.4 ghz is not known to be able to go THAT far. there has been reports of people being able to get aproximately 2.5 kilometer (1.5 miles) with an FPV signal with some serious antennas and power units, but the likely hood of going up to 2 miles (3.2 kilometer) is rather slim.
also, of the numbers of reported rogue phantoms, a large number if not all of them have one thing in common -- a wifi capable addition to the craft. in fact there has been several pilots who have reported that their phantom was flying "funny" only to find out that some how the wifi on their gopro3 black edition had turned on (i would say these are the lucky ones).
does it matter how it happens? all that really matters is that there are two things in common in most if not all of the cases of phantoms going rogue:
1) a wifi capable device was attached to the phantom
2) said phantom is then flown at distances of 400+ feet away from pilot (line of sight not withstanding)
Since the phantom has the RTH with enhanced features that would activate in the case that the phantom no longer has signal from the TX (TX turned off or what ever the case), it is only logical to conclude that the phantom is then receiving a signal from somewhere that would make it continue operation instead of RTH.
in ATTI mode, as soon as you let go of the control stick, the phantom will "slide" along the path it was going (an object in motion stays in motion until acted upon by another force.... sounds familiar?). however it will not continue at the same speed in the same direction because it would no longer have the command to do so. because of air friction, wind and other external forces, the momentum of the craft will slow down rather quickly and would not have been able to carry itself 2 miles away.
RF cross signals can occur, but for the craft to continue to receive such a signal until it ran out of battery (after 2 miles of flight) can only be attributed to a unit that is in close proximity with the craft for that duration of flight. the RF band of 2.4 ghz is not known to be able to go THAT far. there has been reports of people being able to get aproximately 2.5 kilometer (1.5 miles) with an FPV signal with some serious antennas and power units, but the likely hood of going up to 2 miles (3.2 kilometer) is rather slim.
also, of the numbers of reported rogue phantoms, a large number if not all of them have one thing in common -- a wifi capable addition to the craft. in fact there has been several pilots who have reported that their phantom was flying "funny" only to find out that some how the wifi on their gopro3 black edition had turned on (i would say these are the lucky ones).
does it matter how it happens? all that really matters is that there are two things in common in most if not all of the cases of phantoms going rogue:
1) a wifi capable device was attached to the phantom
2) said phantom is then flown at distances of 400+ feet away from pilot (line of sight not withstanding)
I'm glad you understand that.auck said:
Correlation does not imply causality. Until you understand that you probably shouldn't use the term logic in a sentence.auck said:
Unless the very last signal it received was that the control stick was at 80% forward. Do you have any documentation to show that the Naza will or will not just continue applying the last set of control inputs it receives? Or perhaps this is just a bug in the firmware such that under the right circumstances (loss of real TX input at the same time as noise on the control frequency) it does just get stuck in whatever flight attitude controls were last input.auck said:
Unless it didn't need to continuously receive that interference to continue in it's current settings.auck said:
Are you under the impression that 2.4 GHz is some kind of special section of the spectrum with its own special physical properties? Point-to-point WiFi signals can go several miles with the correct antennas and still be at low power. But once again you are making assumptions about what is taking place based on nothing but speculation and you have yet to establish that these flyaway Phantoms were undergoing a continuous interference.auck said:
Where exactly are all of these reports documented? I've read all the ones here and there isn't a large number posted here let alone a large number of reports documenting the use of WiFi. What I have seen is several people going on and on about what they read, somewhere on the internet, where somebody else heard from a friend, that someone's Phantom flew away.auck said:
Without someone actually making the effort to collect real data about the individual events that is still just speculation and ignores other possible factors. How many of these flyaways took place in an urban environment where there are likely to be a large number of WiFi sources? Were they near industrial areas which may also have WiFi sources as well as other sources of RF interference?auck said:
In any case I agree that it is still in the best interest of Phantom users with GoPros to not use WiFi as there is a chance, though small, that it could interfere. Given that the WiFi range of the GoPro is quite limited there is little point in using it and taking the risk.
OK, well I am so thankful or this forum. I was wondering what was going on with my DJI P2 with GoPro Black. I had WiFi enabled, Phantom would fly approximately 200 feet away and would wobble hard, fall, recover then lucky for me GoHome. Happened 3 times and scared the heck out of me. I realized after a few other test flights that it was the GoPro which was causing this since it only happened when I had WiFi enabled and recording. I'll be sure to turn off WiFi but have to admin I'm nervous that it will be enabled by mistake and have fly away.
I'm glad to know what is causing it and that I'm not the only one who has issues with WiFi/GoPro.
I'm glad to know what is causing it and that I'm not the only one who has issues with WiFi/GoPro.
As a fairly new 'Phantom Pilot' this topic concerns me, I've recently replaced my FC40 camera with a GoPro Hero 3 Silver and just assumed I could use the WiFi with the logic that the FC40 was wifi enabled and supplied by DJI so why not the GoPro? I agree the latency isn't good for FPV, but the WiFi is useful for stopping and starting video as required. I've used the GoPro with WiFi enabled several times without problems, but now that I'm aware of the 'possible' problem I suppose I should change my ways! Sorry to stir up an old conversation, but I'm playing catchup! Any advice or update would be appreciated.
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