Uncertified Rogue Commercial Drone Operators

[Jeff Miller]

I understand what you are thinking but.

the FAA is/has been doing something about it/them .
The terror use of a uav isn't a licensing issue in any way
and is completely out the context of commercial license flyers vs not licensed.

While I too am working on my 107 I can assure you that many very skilled and knowledgeable operators will not do so, as they have no need or desire to become licensed...
doesn't mean they don't know about airports flight regs, flight patterns how to contact airports if circumstance's require, how to read a faa map, Notam etc etc

. I Know those things now, and I am not licensed and I am not unique by a long shot.

This doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make them a worse or more dangerous operator than you or I or any other 107 certified operator.

The 107 does tell a customer that you have basic skill level and knowledge and are vetted by the FAA.
sell that concept to customers, not the boogey man is coming if he doesn't have a certificate..

The 107 doesn't guarantee that a 107 certified pilot cant or wont have the same accident you describe the unlicensed guy is going to have....
.ask all the Licensed commercial truck drivers that keep rolling their rigs over outside my home area on I80 in Ohio. 7 times in last 5 weeks completely shut down the interstate for hours and hours over single truck accidents.( got good video of one).

good luck and have fun flying!
they were all certified commercial rig drivers yet they still had an ACCIDENT

I don't disagree with you at all. The reason flying comparatively safe

Who are you guys using for insurance? Like to see a few names of good companies/policies and rates.
The company I've got my cameras and business insurance with told me that they can add drone insurance- from a third party- but if I do my deductibles for EVERYTHING will jump up from $1,000 to $2,500.
So I want to find a good third party insurance myself & keep the policies separate.
Also I'm in Chicago -I assume who covers what is affected by region.

Check out Travers

Who are you guys using for insurance? Like to see a few names of good companies/policies and rates.
The company I've got my cameras and business insurance with told me that they can add drone insurance- from a third party- but if I do my deductibles for EVERYTHING will jump up from $1,000 to $2,500.
So I want to find a good third party insurance myself & keep the policies separate.
Also I'm in Chicago -I assume who covers what is affected by region.

Check out www.traversaviation.com They're the most reasonable and specialize in aviation insurance.

 

[Theo450]

I was a UAV hobbyist for two years before I got into commercial. I honestly don't care about the bootleggers, until it comes to the industry reputation, and especially safety. They are honestly NOT any sort of competition. Sure it is unlikely for a commercial airliner to come into contact with a UAV, but it only takes once for a bunch of lives to be lost. Insert the FAA here please. Their number one priority is safety. After interacting with some pilots and going through the 107 process, talking to some ATCs, I really understand what the risks are. If you are not aware, you would probably be stunned by the amount of controlled airspace in the USA. The rules are not that tough to follow. The only excuse not to follow them is laziness.

As for insurance, I am fortunate that my company is taking care of that, and I really don't know many details except we are insuring our aircraft against loss, and 2 million in liability. Fly safe everyone!

 

[Enrico Schaefer]

Www.skysmith.com. Can provide insurance quotes from most underwriters.


Enrico Schaefer
UAV Attorney
www.dronelaw.pro

Free Part 107 Waiver and Airspace Training Videos. https://www.dronelaw.pro/part-107-waivers/

 

[SoCalDude]

I think the big difference here is someone bringing down another aircraft due to reckless use.

That has nothing to do with the OP's original post. What he is concerned with is that he may be losing out on business to these impostors—not if the others crash.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

That has nothing to do with the OP's original post. What he is concerned with is that he may be losing out on business to these impostors—not if the others crash.

I'm afraid it has everything to do with it. It's the basis upon which the rule is made. Without it, we'd be talking baseball here. Thumbing your nose at a law - whether you agree with it or not - is what I have an issue with, and in so doing, the rogues are bullying their way through the industry. Like being run off the road by a reckless driver. He didn't hurt me. Is that okay? I didn't take the test for my health. 107 is not an exclusive club. It's open to everybody. Man-up, study, plunk down $150, and get your diploma. I did it - they can do it. What's stopping them? I'm talking about those that knowingly and willfully skirt the law - not the clueless knuckleheads. Quibbling about whether or not the law is justified is another debate.

If you want a comparable scenario, open your purse/wallet, pull out your driver's license (truck drivers: CDL), lay it in front of you and ponder. DL's just have a head start.

 

[SoCalDude]

That has nothing to do with the OP's original post. What he is concerned with is that he may be losing out on business to these impostors—not if the others crash.

I'm afraid it has everything to do with it.

Understood.

However, the general tone of the OPs original post is that non-certified pilots are taking business away from him—not about them flying recklessly and crashing. The gist of his message is his genuine concern for being able (or not able) to compete with the numerous non certified pilots for his business.

 

[Theo450]

I flew a commercial mission today, and on the navigational chart it said, "large military cargo aircraft 3000 agl and below". Guess what came lumbering by about an hour into the mission...

I was like, better put the bird down there fellas. I am glad I had the education to know to expect it, and know what to do. There was no real chance of an interaction, but it sure did make an impression on me about how serious this stuff is.

So, back to the op, part of my business is to differentiate myself from the non compliant "competitors" by educating my clients as to the importance of compliance, and using that as a differentiator.

 

[Robert Weaver]

Here's the problem with turning the other way. If I have a license and the other operator doesn't then that other operator has no right to be flying and interfering with my operation if he's doing commercial work. I don't understand why people are so complacent about people violating regulations.

 

[Robert Weaver]

Just saw a job posting for photographer at large real estate firm in my area. They mentioned being able to do drone photos and video, but mentioned nothing about a requirement to be certified. I highly doubt any one there currently is certified.

 

[Tenly]

Just saw a job posting for photographer at large real estate firm in my area. They mentioned being able to do drone photos and video, but mentioned nothing about a requirement to be certified. I highly doubt any one there currently is certified.

That's pretty cynical. Certified or not - that's not something I'd personally focus on in my advertisements. I'd focus on what I can do for the customer, how I can improve his business, etc...

If I had seen the same ad you describe - I'd have assumed that the photographer in question isn't the pilot himself but knows a drone pilot that he brings in when necessary. There may even be more than one - they may be licensed, may not - but as a customer, I'd assume that they *were* licensed and if I were interested in the aerial services, that's when I'd ask the question - if it were important to me as a customer. But to assume that someone's *not* registered based only on the evidence you described is jaded and cynical. It would be like assuming that a pilot is incompetent or inexperienced because you didn't include a list of previous work experience - or references!

We get it! There are lots of unlicensed operators out there - but not everyone that doesn't mention being licensed in every ad falls into that boat. This wasn't even the drone pilots ad - it was the photographers ad - and all he did was mention in passing that the service is available!


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[Robert Weaver]

That's pretty cynical. Certified or not - that's not something I'd personally focus on in my advertisements. I'd focus on what I can do for the customer, how I can improve his business, etc...

If I had seen the same ad you describe - I'd have assumed that the photographer in question isn't the pilot himself but knows a drone pilot that he brings in when necessary. There may even be more than one - they may be licensed, may not - but as a customer, I'd assume that they *were* licensed and if I were interested in the aerial services, that's when I'd ask the question - if it were important to me as a customer. But to assume that someone's *not* registered based only on the evidence you described is jaded and cynical. It would be like assuming that a pilot is incompetent or inexperienced because you didn't include a list of previous work experience - or references!

We get it! There are lots of unlicensed operators out there - but not everyone that doesn't mention being licensed in every ad falls into that boat. This wasn't even the drone pilots ad - it was the photographers ad - and all he did was mention in passing that the service is available!


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This is a real estate agency looking for a photographer. There was mention of having a valid drivers license and clean driving record, but no mention of being properly licensed for commercial drone photography. It's not cynical when it's plain as day! All of their photography is done in house. The ad specifically states about the qualified photographer: "A proficiency and expertise in taking photographs, video and drone footage is a must as well as uploading, editing and creating marketing materials at the office."

Responsibilities:

• Photograph the inside and outside of homes to present the best visual representation of all our properties.
• Video editing knowledge
• Knowledge of Photoshop and basic graphic skills.
• Valid, clean driver's license and reliable transportation
• Collaborate with our team and learn our systems and processes quickly

Qualifications:

• A gift and passion for photography
• Creativity
• Artistic Eye
• Detail- oriented
• Able to work autonomously with no supervision
• Clean Driving record
• Teachable

No mention of having connections to a drone pilot or company, but you MUST have a valid drivers license and clean driving record.

Am I being truly cynical or just realistic?

 

[Robert Weaver]

That's pretty cynical. Certified or not - that's not something I'd personally focus on in my advertisements. I'd focus on what I can do for the customer, how I can improve his business, etc...

If I had seen the same ad you describe - I'd have assumed that the photographer in question isn't the pilot himself but knows a drone pilot that he brings in when necessary. There may even be more than one - they may be licensed, may not - but as a customer, I'd assume that they *were* licensed and if I were interested in the aerial services, that's when I'd ask the question - if it were important to me as a customer. But to assume that someone's *not* registered based only on the evidence you described is jaded and cynical. It would be like assuming that a pilot is incompetent or inexperienced because you didn't include a list of previous work experience - or references!

We get it! There are lots of unlicensed operators out there - but not everyone that doesn't mention being licensed in every ad falls into that boat. This wasn't even the drone pilots ad - it was the photographers ad - and all he did was mention in passing that the service is available!


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Also there is an illegal operator in my area that advertises his FAA commercially registered drone. When questioned whether that means he has his 107 certificate....crickets. I'm assuming that means no.

 

[Tenly]

This is a real estate agency looking for a photographer. There was mention of having a valid drivers license and clean driving record, but no mention of being properly licensed for commercial drone photography. It's not cynical when it's plain as day! All of their photography is done in house. The ad specifically states about the qualified photographer: "A proficiency and expertise in taking photographs, video and drone footage is a must as well as uploading, editing and creating marketing materials at the office."

Responsibilities:

• Photograph the inside and outside of homes to present the best visual representation of all our properties.
• Video editing knowledge
• Knowledge of Photoshop and basic graphic skills.
• Valid, clean driver's license and reliable transportation
• Collaborate with our team and learn our systems and processes quickly

Qualifications:

• A gift and passion for photography
• Creativity
• Artistic Eye
• Detail- oriented
• Able to work autonomously with no supervision
• Clean Driving record
• Teachable

No mention of having connections to a drone pilot or company, but you MUST have a valid drivers license and clean driving record.

Am I being truly cynical or just realistic?

You may be right - if he felt the need to mention (twice) that he had a clean driving record - which should not matter in the slightest to someone hiring a photographer - it's extremely likely that he would have highlighted a 107 if he had one.

This is much more than you described in your original message so I withdraw my "cynical" comment - but my other comments do stand that in general - just because an ad omits mentioning certification - doesn't always mean that certification doesn't exist. But in this case - when they highlight non-relevant "certifications" - it's completely likely that ALL he has is what he's highlighting.



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[Robert Weaver]

You may be right - if he felt the need to mention (twice) that he had a clean driving record - which should not matter in the slightest to someone hiring a photographer - it's extremely likely that he would have highlighted a 107 if he had one.

This is much more than you described in your original message so I withdraw my "cynical" comment - but my other comments do stand that in general - just because an ad omits mentioning certification - doesn't always mean that certification doesn't exist. But in this case - when they highlight non-relevant "certifications" - it's completely likely that ALL he has is what he's highlighting.



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The driving record and license is a requirement because this position is for full time employment. Probably has to do with insurance.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

Also there is an illegal operator in my area that advertises his FAA commercially registered drone. When questioned whether that means he has his 107 certificate....crickets. I'm assuming that means no.

I've seen this as well. There appears to be a common misconception out there that merely registering your drone makes you legal for commercial operations. He's probably unaware of the 107 rule. A good example of why licensed operators need to create awareness every time they get the chance.
Case in point: you now have reason to believe this guy is illegal and therefore constitutes a threat to your business (as opposed to a licensed competitor). What do you do?

 

[Kristina Fowler]

For the record, here are a couple of interesting articles that touch on this burr under my saddle....

23 Drone Operator Prosecutions by the FAA – What Every Recreational and Commercial Drone Operator Needs to Know. - Drone Law Attorney Services - Rupprecht Law, PA
The Black Market in Drones: Why Commercial Operators Need the FAA - DRONELIFE

 

[younggun84]

Here's the problem with turning the other way. If I have a license and the other operator doesn't then that other operator has no right to be flying and interfering with my operation if he's doing commercial work. I don't understand why people are so complacent about people violating regulations.

Rights don't come from the government.


People are complacent because most regulation is BS and only serves to reduce competition and drive up the cost of goods and services.


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[Kristina Fowler]

Rights don't come from the government.


People are complacent because most regulation is BS and only serves to reduce competition and drive up the cost of goods and services.


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But it's the law. You don't have the right to arbitrarily decide whether it's practical or not or arbitrarily decide whether or not it applies to you. Why do you only get 4 downs in football? I think the rule is silly and my team deserves 5. What makes rogues and 107 different is the likely absence of witnesses. Not much different than shoplifting. If the drone shoot was televised, I'd be willing to bet he'd be legal.

 

[younggun84]

I think you are confused about "rights".




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[Kristina Fowler]

I think you are confused about "rights".




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I don't think so. I'm certainly not a member of the Thought Police. You have the right to think anything you want, but I don't think you have the right to break the law. Exercising rights and breaking the law are mutually exclusive.