Uncertified Rogue Commercial Drone Operators

first off- good topic, curious as to what can happen to one and is there a way they can actually get caught if only doing it here and there....i'm currently doing my research and a lot of studying so I can past the test and learn a lot more on this great hobby and what it all has to offer
 
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first off- good topic, curious as to what can happen to one and is there a way they can actually get caught if only doing it here and there....i'm currently doing my research and a lot of studying so I can past the test and learn a lot more on this great hobby and what it all has to offer
A big construction called me today and wants to do ongoing aerial video for updates, etc. First shoot with them is this Friday. In my first email to him, I made it a point to tell him I had my 107 Remote Pilot Certificate and stressed the fact it was required by the FAA. I think if every 107 pilot made this a part of their normal communications with clients and potential clients, the new awareness will offset some of the unscrupulous activities out there.
 
Have to disagree. There certainly should be reasonable cause to "rat out", as you put it and there should be due diligence before contacting authorities. I prefer to call it upholding the law. If the rogues know there will be no push-back, then anarchy sets in and it becomes the wild west and the rogue operators run with total impunity. We've become a culture of whimps and the shrewd rogue operator counts on that to clear his path.


I have to agree. Doing and saying nothing is not a good answer and in this case where safety and accountability are key looking the other way because you are more concerned with how it makes you look is less than upstanding. Not reporting little things lets those that are doing those "Little things" to keep pushing the limits.

You don't have to put your name in the hat to report someone. You can stay relatively anonymous.
 
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You don't have to put your name in the hat to report someone. You can stay relatively anonymous.

Oh trust me you can stay TOTALLY anonymous because I was reported recently. But just be careful if you poop in your own sandbox enough you're gonna step in your own poop.
 
The aircraft flying industry has operators without an operating certificate, insurance or qualified crews. Imagine how easy and prevalent the practice is for the drone industry, just as in the illegal aircraft flying, these people will be exposed due to unsafe practices, lousy work and crashes. The result will be ever tightening requirements (ops specs) by the FAA and more scrutiny and higher fees for insurance.

Turning a blind eye to scab operators is wrong and will prove to be very costly.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots
 
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Be very careful if you decide to start ratting out your competitors. I'm not saying DO or DO NOT do it but it's a slipper slope and you don't want to look like "that guy". Realtors are nothing if not very SOCIAL. If you're wanting to build a business model on Realtor work you'll want to stay on their good side. Make one made and your area will sour to you in a heart beat.

I've been doing this for years and I know exactly where each of you are coming from. I was saying the same thing (maybe just to myself) just a few months ago before Part 107 was on the scene and so many of my fellow Part 107 operators were doing this type of work without a Section 333 Exemption. Sometimes you just have to turn the other cheek and beat them with AMAZING customer service and great products.

Would you turn the cheek if you knew someone was flying a cessna 172 without a license or using a cessna 172 as an air taxi without a commercial license?
 
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It's never wrong to stand up for what is right.

True, but proving you are right in court can cost you dearly in court/lawyer fees. "So I paid my lawyer $10K, but at least I won, and got 'whatever' expunged from my record too!" And the cycle can repeat itself again. Best not to go there to begin with, imho, and stay off their radar than appearing on it. Lawyers don't work for free, even if you are legally right or win in court (damhik!).
 
Great topic. As others have mentioned, this is just a part of doing business in ANY area of commerce. I'm in the HA-HVAC/R Installation and Service Industry, and un-licensed work it's a huge problem. Many people don't understand/care how many things can go wrong in a hurry in our industry. Houses blow up, blocks leveled, people electrocuted, Flooded houses, houses burned to the ground... etc.. Not to mention the damage to the equipment being worked on, because these people don't generally have a great work ethic.

You know how we deal with it?
1) Every piece of literature has our license numbers on it, every sale incudes verbiage that we are fully licensed, bonded and insured.
2) The Age of our company (we have a 35 year history in our area)
3) Providing what we call 'knock your socks off service'.

Once you realize that YOU are NOT going to stop them, the better you can focus your positive energy on building your company and clients trust, doing the job in the best, safest and most efficient way possible.
 
When I approach anybody for work, and they tell me they have somebody, I make sure to ask them, to make sure they guy they use is FAA certified, and make sure they can prove it. I figure any little bug I can stick out there might help me out.
 
Once you realize that YOU are NOT going to stop them, the better you can focus your positive energy on building your company and clients trust, doing the job in the best, safest and most efficient way possible.

BINGO! I learned this lesson a good while back. Also if you produce a better product and have better customer service you automatically set yourself apart from the "riff raff" and you can make more $$ per job this way.

If you stoop to playing their game you'll be stuck playing their game instead of improving your own.

True, but proving you are right in court can cost you dearly in court/lawyer fees. "So I paid my lawyer $10K, but at least I won, and got 'whatever' expunged from my record too!" And the cycle can repeat itself again. Best not to go there to begin with, imho, and stay off their radar than appearing on it. Lawyers don't work for free, even if you are legally right or win in court (damhik!).

Very well said. Much better use of time and resources more often than not.
 
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Great topic. As others have mentioned, this is just a part of doing business in ANY area of commerce. I'm in the HA-HVAC/R Installation and Service Industry, and un-licensed work it's a huge problem. Many people don't understand/care how many things can go wrong in a hurry in our industry. Houses blow up, blocks leveled, people electrocuted, Flooded houses, houses burned to the ground... etc.. Not to mention the damage to the equipment being worked on, because these people don't generally have a great work ethic.

You know how we deal with it?
1) Every piece of literature has our license numbers on it, every sale incudes verbiage that we are fully licensed, bonded and insured.
2) The Age of our company (we have a 35 year history in our area)
3) Providing what we call 'knock your socks off service'.

Once you realize that YOU are NOT going to stop them, the better you can focus your positive energy on building your company and clients trust, doing the job in the best, safest and most efficient way possible.

Well said.
 
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The primary people to report unlawful drone flights are people who are flying lawfully. If the market is going to grow and mature, the regulations need to be enforced and complied with. The UAV community has a role to play encouraging people to play by the rules and reporting those who don't. Here's the link to report unlawful drone flights.

Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)


Enrico Schaefer
UAV Attorney
www.dronelaw.pro

Free Part 107 Waiver and Airspace Training Videos. https://www.dronelaw.pro/part-107-waivers/
 
If you had made that post/statement 7-15 mos. ago you would be considered 'Drone Police' by many here.

Many of those voices have faded but can be heard occasionally.
 
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If you had made that post/statement 7-15 mos. ago you would be considered 'Drone Police' by many here.

Many of those voices have faded but can be heard occasionally.


BINGO! A few months ago we were the "small minority trying to forcefully protect our niche market".
 
No. I'm talking about someone consulting with a homeowner about the sale of their home and collecting a fee without a realtors license.



When you spend time and money to take a test and buy insurance you tend to think twice about what actions you take with a drone.
 
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Great topic. As others have mentioned, this is just a part of doing business in ANY area of commerce. I'm in the HA-HVAC/R Installation and Service Industry, and un-licensed work it's a huge problem. Many people don't understand/care how many things can go wrong in a hurry in our industry. Houses blow up, blocks leveled, people electrocuted, Flooded houses, houses burned to the ground... etc.. Not to mention the damage to the equipment being worked on, because these people don't generally have a great work ethic.

You know how we deal with it?
1) Every piece of literature has our license numbers on it, every sale incudes verbiage that we are fully licensed, bonded and insured.
2) The Age of our company (we have a 35 year history in our area)
3) Providing what we call 'knock your socks off service'.

Once you realize that YOU are NOT going to stop them, the better you can focus your positive energy on building your company and clients trust, doing the job in the best, safest and most efficient way possible.
I agree with this post. It is a daunting task, but I'm dedicated enough to make it a standard part of my communications with current and potential clients. My guess is the vast majority of potential clients are clueless about the regs. Creating awareness is key. The client needs to make an informed decision. Just today, I sent a potential client a quote. He's asked me to match pricing from a competitor in another area of the state. My senses tell me the competitor is uncertified, so I casually mentioned to the client of FAA regulations and hinted that he may be dealing with a rogue service. I'll leave it to him to make the decision to continue dealing with the guy (assuming he's illegal), but at least I planted a big seed in his head going forward. Clients - especially high profile - hate to even be associated with these guys, since the clients themselves operate in regulated industries and probably look upon these guys with disdain. The clients just need to be informed.
 
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There are lots of things that you can do to educate clients. This thread hits a lot of high notes. If there is a issue with the flight operations, property damage, injury, invasion of privacy, trespass, the customer hiring the drone operator will also get sued. They are the deep pockets. In the drone pilot is the agent acting on behalf of the customer. If the drone pilot does not have appropriate and adequate insurance, then the customer will be potentially liable for all damages. The customer is unlikely to have insurance which covers aviation or drone activity. This means they're exposed.

Educating customers is a big part of growing this market and establishing demand for professional drone services. Drone operators need to take every opportunity to do so and make sure they appear professional in all of their marketing, contracts, and activities. In fact, the best place to educate a customer is with your contract. A well drafted sUAS Service Agreement will tell the customer all the things that you are doing for them in order to protect them.


Enrico Schaefer
UAV Attorney
www.dronelaw.pro

Free Part 107 Waiver and Airspace Training Videos. https://www.dronelaw.pro/part-107-waivers/
 
As in "For sale by owner?"

Back on realtors, no doubt realtors tattle on each other too, like ones who operate out of their homes rather than in a commercial district that is zoned for it or moonlight under a commercial realty name and their license. This game has gone on with pro photographers reporting on their lower-pricing competition for operating out of their homes, but city zoning seems to have their own local enforcement arm to deal with that verses "I know a non-commercial drone operator and I'm telling on them to the FAA."

Having a commercial license doesn't make one responsible any more than a trucker with a Class A who exceeds the speed limit which is daily around here. Knowing that if they are caught enough times and may lose their insurance and license both, it sure doesn't seem to stop them.

Reality is that some care, and some don't - and seems the ones who don't are money ahead in the game - albeit illegally and without conscious.
As in "For sale by owner?"

Back on realtors, no doubt realtors tattle on each other too, like ones who operate out of their homes rather than in a commercial district that is zoned for it or moonlight under a commercial realty name and their license. This game has gone on with pro photographers reporting on their lower-pricing competition for operating out of their homes, but city zoning seems to have their own local enforcement arm to deal with that verses "I know a non-commercial drone operator and I'm telling on them to the FAA."

Having a commercial license doesn't make one responsible any more than a trucker with a Class A who exceeds the speed limit which is daily around here. Knowing that if they are caught enough times and may lose their insurance and license both, it sure doesn't seem to stop them.

Reality is that some care, and some don't - and seems the ones who don't are money ahead in the game - albeit illegally and without conscious.
Like the death penalty doesn't stop people from killing each other.
 
Not sure if this has been discussed. I went to a lot of time and trouble - plus $150 testing fee - to get my Part 107 Remote Pilot Certificate to be in the good graces of the FAA. I studied my butt off and made a 95% on the General Knowledge Test. Like many here, I intend to use Aerial video/photo services to supplement my income. That said, I did not anticipate the large number of rogue drone operators I would encounter who represent themselves as legitimate when in fact they are not, and lack the proper FAA certification (Section 333 Exemption or Part 107 Remote Pilot Certificate). I don't mind competition from other certified aerial businesses, but when these rogue operators begin to saturate the market and hi-jack potential opportunities, I take exception to it.

I am simply shocked at how many so called "Commercial Operators" are out there representing themselves as being in compliance with FAA regulations concerning the commercial operation of a drone (under 55 pounds). I would even go so far as to call it borderline epidemic. Most are listed on Craigslist and are not shy about stating that they are engaged in for-hire commercial drone activities, even to the extent of publishing their rates.

I quizzed 5 of them by email and simply asked each if they held either a Section 333 Exemption or a Part 107 Remote Pilot Certificate. Out of the five I contacted, none (zero) had the proper certification. It was amazing to see how they convinced themselves that they were certified. One operator sent copies of his drone registration. When I asked him again if he had a 333 or 107, he made a vague reference to the Section 333 process, stating "Those have been delayed and still processings nationwide thats why we hold our active certificate til petitions are granted." Not sure what he meant by "... active certificate".

Another operator justified his activities by stating, "If your asking do I have the right to properly do business. My answer is, yes. This is a side job for me. If your upset about my prices I have set, you can look up the laws in regarding that." I don't recall the FAA making any exceptions for "side jobs".

I guess I'm just frustrated that this many people are circumventing the regulations - either intentionally or by honest misinterpretations. What makes matters worse is that more often than not, potential clients are clueless about the regulations for commercial operators. This, together with the FAA being overwhelmed by new pilots - both hobbyists and commercial - just makes matters worse.

So I'm throwing this out there to see if any of the Certified commercial operators on this board are finding the same situation in your neck of the woods. I'm also interested in suggestions on how these rogue practices can be put in check.

Thanks in advance.....
 

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