RAW is processed, JPG is not

[F3honda4me]

Its pretty funny, that a bunch of people having a perfectly working product, also speaks and confirms on behalf of those who dont, that there arent any problems at all.
If every large consumer company could have a couple of guys like that, they would get away with everything. they could just say "nah, its working here, so its nothing wrong with yours, have a nice day"
I bet that even IF the day should come an Dji admits it publicly, some guys here would still call us stupid and trolls

Even if the customer staff is low level, doesnt mean they dont have inside information next to them, about their products and typical issues, without knowing how to fix it, just how to act in that matter, in terms of taking it back, i mean, i THINK they probably have spoken to a couple of customers now since they started deliver this, and should recognize certain issues returning, but what do i know, maybe they suffer from short term memory as well.
At least the person at support could tell you it cannot be fixed with firmware updates, or should we just conclude that all DJI staff are just bluffing incompetent people trolling all their customers?

Their customer service staff generally have zero information on known issues. An example, there is a known issue with a bad batch of propellers on the inspire 2. But if you contact customer service they have no idea what you're talking about.

Another example, there was a video glitching affecting some p4ps that is going to be fixed in a firmware update. But if you contact customer service, they want you to send it in for repair even though it's a firmware issue.

But please, tell us more about the knowledgeable customer service staff.

 

[F3honda4me]

Provide me with an unopened DNG that has your issue via Dropbox and I'll post it on rcg for Ken and Ed to look at. If they agree something is wrong with it they'll give it to the engineers. (Or go over there and post it yourself if you want)

Remember the file must be unopened by any program before you upload it otherwise the processing done by ACR for example could affect the file.

 

[RicardoUK]

Its pretty funny, that a bunch of people having a perfectly working product, also speaks and confirms on behalf of those who dont, that there arent any problems at all.
If every large consumer company could have a couple of guys like that, they would get away with everything. they could just say "nah, its working here, so its nothing wrong with yours, have a nice day"
I bet that even IF the day should come an Dji admits it publicly, some guys here would still call us stupid and trolls

Even if the customer staff is low level, doesnt mean they dont have inside information next to them, about their products and typical issues, without knowing how to fix it, just how to act in that matter, in terms of taking it back, i mean, i THINK they probably have spoken to a couple of customers now since they started deliver this, and should recognize certain issues returning, but what do i know, maybe they suffer from short term memory as well.
At least the person at support could tell you it cannot be fixed with firmware updates, or should we just conclude that all DJI staff are just bluffing incompetent people trolling all their customers?

I agree with you. But hey! we are stupid people, whatever we say is worthless.

 

[RicardoUK]

I know this is on page 12 and probably has beaten ad nauseum by now but the DNG mode comes with a lot more metadata than a rasterized JPEG which is just an image to be manipulated while DNG has tons of info for you to color correct and to get it just how you want it.

I can't think of a good analogy at the moment but imagine a picture that is burned into something and another that is a layer of cels that you can dynamically manipulate each one. You simply have more latitude to do things to a raw DNG file than you can a JPEG. A JPEG is a deliverable (something you would eventually turn your DNG file into) and a DNG is an uncompressed file.

It's a lot like when people were complaining that D-Log looked bad because they don't have a basic understanding of color correction. That wasn't aimed at you, but rather at the people that were saying that about D-Log which I have found to be a very good color space and DNG is an industry proven color space format.

English is not my first language. But are you trying to explain to us what RAW file is? Everybody knows that a DNG or RAW file can be modify and has more latitude. The Thread point is that the starting point (even if sliders are in 0) they start way low on exposure and way high on contrast and saturation. That´s an issue.

 

[RicardoUK]

After update I was about 2 stops low even though histogram looked OK.

I reset camera settings and is OK now. Dlog working well for me. Although histogram seems to be about 1 stop lower lower than actual exposure than before update.

I did the same. But in my case still, underexposed and over saturated and contrasted (As the JPG should come out like). And that happens in all color profiles.

 

[Doctorcobani]

Its pretty funny, that a bunch of people having a perfectly working product, also speaks and confirms on behalf of those who dont, that there arent any problems at all.
If every large consumer company could have a couple of guys like that, they would get away with everything. they could just say "nah, its working here, so its nothing wrong with yours, have a nice day"
I bet that even IF the day should come an Dji admits it publicly, some guys here would still call us stupid and trolls

I agree with you. But hey! we are stupid people, whatever we say is worthless.

I never tell you that you are stupid, troll, or whatever. The problem is that you talk like we all have the fault, or like all P4P have these issue, and I demostrated to you (me and others) that these problem doesn't happen in our units!!

If you have these problem, then return or change the unit. This problem is VERY VERY WEIRD, really, never in my fu***** life I saw a RAW wrongly created. I will find your samples in the thread and I will check in my PC. You have samples straight to the P4P but not opened for you in any software? I like to see them, but not opened for you in any RAW viewer, to make sure that the metadata has not rewritten.

 

[F3honda4me]

@RicardoUK @gr8pics

Provide me with an unopened DNG that has your issue via Dropbox and I'll post it on rcg for Ken and Ed to look at. If they agree something is wrong with it they'll give it to the engineers. (Or go over there and post it yourself if you want)

Remember the file must be unopened by any program before you upload it otherwise the processing done by ACR for example could affect the file.

 

[Tomas Wangen]

Andre and Daniel
Here´s the link to the straight from the camera a DNG and a JPG if you guys want to see it. If after seeing them you still tell me that ACR applies and adjustment to the DNG and that´s why it doesn´t come out flat etc... then why does the JPG comes out flat and without saturation etc.... it has NOTHING to do with ACR I am 100% sure, otherwise that would be applied to any other RAW files from any other camera, and that never happened before.

Again, we are not misleading anyone. This are facts. If you are content having your DNG being applied some process, great! I am not!

The firs screen shot is the JPG and the second one is the DNG

And here is a link for the files themselves: Dropbox - RAW - JPG
View attachment 73880

Dropbox - RAW - JPGView attachment 73879

Just to make it perfectly clear that there is nothing wrong with the dng file itself, this is how it looks after a short but dramatic saving-effort. Notice that I had to lift the exposure by 4.35 stops as well as compensate for the lighting, and it is still retains perfect detail in the whole picture.

You must of-course expose correctly during capture to avoid such dramatic need for post processing, but I welcome anyone to try the same feat with the equally underexposed jpeg.

Being able to "save" such a incorrectly captured image speaks for both the sensor itself and raw in general. And that is a fact.

 

[F3honda4me]

Just to make it perfectly clear that there is nothing wrong with the dng file itself, this is how it looks after a short but dramatic saving-effort. Notice that I had to lift the exposure by 4.35 stops as well as compensate for the lighting, and it is still retains perfect detail in the whole picture.

You must of-course expose correctly during capture to avoid such dramatic need for post processing, but I welcome anyone to try the same feat with the equally underexposed jpeg.

Being able to "save" such a incorrectly captured image speaks for both the sensor itself and raw in general. And that is a fact.


View attachment 73992

Well that I think kinda wraps it up then...

 

[Jussaguy]

English is not my first language. But are you trying to explain to us what RAW file is? Everybody knows that a DNG or RAW file can be modify and has more latitude. The Thread point is that the starting point (even if sliders are in 0) they start way low on exposure and way high on contrast and saturation. That´s an issue.

I wasn't trying to explain what raw was. Based on the OP and nothing else, I was just explaining to that person, yes, that DNG might not look as good as JPG but the ability to have more latitude is different.

I will read the thread over later and see what you guys are talking about in here and offer any of my thoughts. Right now I'm flying blind.

If there are issues in the hardware for stills on the P4, I wouldn't know about them as I don't use it for capturing stills although when I have, I had good results. Will read later. Sorry if I caused confusion.

 

[inkytog]

Well that I think kinda wraps it up then...

Apparently not.

 

[gr8pics]

Apparently not.

Can you guys please stop filling up this thread with useless comments?
Its long and and hard enough to read trough already, for everyone.
Thanks!

 

[inkytog]

Us guys? I've written a tonne of stuff here posting all sorts of things to try and explain this phenomenon. A little whimsical comment every now and then is not a bad thing.

 

[gr8pics]

Us guys? I've written a tonne of stuff here posting all sorts of things to try and explain this phenomenon. A little whimsical comment every now and then is not a bad thing.

I disagree!
"A little whimsical comment every now and then"
That represent 10% of all these 13 pages, and its just annoying, and unnecessary.
You dont HAVE to post a useless comment on another already useless comment, do you?

 

[RicardoUK]

Just to make it perfectly clear that there is nothing wrong with the dng file itself, this is how it looks after a short but dramatic saving-effort. Notice that I had to lift the exposure by 4.35 stops as well as compensate for the lighting, and it is still retains perfect detail in the whole picture.

You must of-course expose correctly during capture to avoid such dramatic need for post processing, but I welcome anyone to try the same feat with the equally underexposed jpeg.

Being able to "save" such a incorrectly captured image speaks for both the sensor itself and raw in general. And that is a fact.


View attachment 73992

your post is useless. We know how to edit a photo, thanks. Again for the 1000 time. The starting point of the DNG is not how was shot. It was shot with less than 0 on contrast, saturation and it was well expose. There is no question the DNG is not right, this is not about if we can moves some sliders and we can or not retouch. Thanks

 

[RicardoUK]

I disagree!
"A little whimsical comment every now and then"
That represent 10% of all these 13 pages, and its just annoying, and unnecessary.
You dont HAVE to post a useless comment on another already useless comment, do you?

I agree.

I would respectfuly, sugest, and tell me gr8pics if you agree. That everyone who thinks we are wrong or mistaken or confused or anything else and whoever thinks the DNG are amazing and perfect, maybe they shouldn´t be in theis thread just for the sake of bothering or whatever.

I think the ones trying to understand and find a solution on an evident BAD (BAD!!!!!!!) DNG file coming out from the P4P.

 

[jadezon]

Hi all, I present an image of the left p4p revealed with Silkipyx and the right with Lr CC 2016, it is impressive how aggressive the development of lightroom, the sharpness and deformation is in sight (lightroom reads a profile embedded by Dji)

 

[F3honda4me]

your post is useless. We know how to edit a photo, thanks. Again for the 1000 time. The starting point of the DNG is not how was shot. It was shot with less than 0 on contrast, saturation and it was well expose. There is no question the DNG is not right, this is not about if we can moves some sliders and we can or not retouch. Thanks

Your post is useless. The purpose of a RAW is that you edit it to look right. Your shot was underexposed. The starting point is determined by your software and your settings when you took the shot (in your case underexposed). This thread needs to die.

 

[RicardoUK]

Your post is useless. The purpose of a RAW is that you edit it to look right. Your shot was underexposed. The starting point is determined by your software and your settings when you took the shot (in your case underexposed). This thread needs to die.

The purpose of a RAW is to edited to look right? Really? hehehe wow, I´ve been a photographer many year and I do publish in many magazines but I didn´t know that. Thanks! Hehhehee You don´t read. This is not an issue if I can modify the DNG in post or not! Read my friend, read This is about the FACT that the DNG is coming out saturated and contrasted and a starting point for retouching it shouldn´t be. Please learn about photography first. If you don´t like the thread I have an easy solution for you, leave.

 

[ianwood]

your post is useless. We know how to edit a photo, thanks. Again for the 1000 time. The starting point of the DNG is not how was shot. It was shot with less than 0 on contrast, saturation and it was well expose. There is no question the DNG is not right, this is not about if we can moves some sliders and we can or not retouch. Thanks

The DNG should not be influenced by the contrast or saturation setting in the camera nor should it be influenced by any other image appearance settings. The histogram might be affected and the JPEG definitely will be. If you shoot with less than zero contrast and saturation, it could very well be that your DNG has more contrast and saturation than the JPG. That would be functionality as intended.

Personally, I always shoot DNG in NONE, 0,0,0. I have not tested if the histogram reflects the appearance settings when they are set to something else. Some have had to reset their settings to get the histogram to be accurate. Have you tried this? Are you sure the histogram is accurate?

And with my moderator hat on, let's stop calling each others' posts useless. This thread is open to anyone who wants to discuss the topic at hand. Just because you disagree with what some people are saying, doesn't give you reason or cause to say who should post and who shouldn't.