RAW is processed, JPG is not

[RicardoUK]

Be careful, if you see the "live histogram" in DJI GO4, these histogram is based in the picture that show the software WITH the profiles applied like a JPG (color profile, contrast, saturation, sharpness, WB, etc)

If you take with D-LOG a picture "perfect exposed" in the live histogram, these histogram is based in the processed JPG, is not the real RAW histogram!

I made tests with histogram and without. And many color profiles too.

 

[gr8pics]

Can anyone inspect the xml data of the DNG file?

I think the preset is coded into that and it more than likely a basic - generic set of instructions that all raw software will read. So it opens up similar on various editors.

You mean xmp?
Heres the raw data from one of the files

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[gr8pics]

Funny, all the automated generated emoticons in that file, no doubt somebody is screwing with us, lol

 

[Tomas Wangen]

Andre and Daniel

Again. The question is not if the RAW file can be modify in post, or not. In any camera, at least on my experience, It doesnt matter if it´s a medium format file, a full size sensor or it is Phantom 3 Pro or Phantom 4, never the DNG has come out contrasted, saturated and underexposed(regardless is it´s possible to tweak it in post) never ever before I have seen ACR or any other post processing image software apply a "adjustment" to the Raw Images. Never!

We are not misleading anyone here. Maybe some of you are super happy with the RAW on your P4P´s we are not. Regardless of the megapixels or dynamic range, Phantom 4 RAW images came out flat and without any adjustment applied to it.

I know this is wrong, at least to me. Maybe not to you and I respect that, but to me it is wrong.

Here´s the link to the straight from the camera a DNG and a JPG if you guys want to see it. If after seeing them you still tell me that ACR applies and adjustment to the DNG and that´s why it doesn´t come out flat etc... then why does the JPG comes out flat and without saturation etc.... it has NOTHING to do with ACR I am 100% sure, otherwise that would be applied to any other RAW files from any other camera, and that never happened before.

Again, we are not misleading anyone. This are facts. If you are content having your DNG being applied some process, great! I am not!

The firs screen shot is the JPG and the second one is the DNG

And here is a link for the files themselves: Dropbox - RAW - JPG
View attachment 73880

Dropbox - RAW - JPGView attachment 73879

I know this is awfully late, but I now had some time to review your example.

This is unfortunately underexposed by 3.8 stops which more or less makes it impossible to save. I therefore invite you to provide an example that actually follows the guidelines I provided before you gave us this sample of which the most important is expose-to-the-right.

3.8 steps underexposed is not a valid attempt.

Thank you.

 

[inkytog]

You mean xmp?
Heres the raw data from one of the files

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<crs:ColorNoiseReductionDetail>50</crs:ColorNoiseReductionDetail>
<crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness>50</crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness>
<crs:LensProfileEnable>1</crs:LensProfileEnable>
<crs:LensManualDistortionAmount>0</crs:LensManualDistortionAmount>
<crserspectiveVertical>0</crserspectiveVertical>
<crserspectiveHorizontal>0</crserspectiveHorizontal>
<crserspectiveRotate>0.0</crserspectiveRotate>
<crserspectiveScale>100</crserspectiveScale>
<crserspectiveAspect>0</crserspectiveAspect>
<crserspectiveUpright>0</crserspectiveUpright>
<crserspectiveX>0.00</crserspectiveX>
<crserspectiveY>0.00</crserspectiveY>
<crs:AutoLateralCA>1</crs:AutoLateralCA>
<crs:Exposure2012>0.00</crs:Exposure2012>
<crs:Contrast2012>0</crs:Contrast2012>
<crs:Highlights2012>-100</crs:Highlights2012>
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<crsefringePurpleHueLo>30</crsefringePurpleHueLo>
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<crsefringeGreenHueLo>40</crsefringeGreenHueLo>
<crsefringeGreenHueHi>60</crsefringeGreenHueHi>
<crsehaze>0</crsehaze>
<crs:ToneMapStrength>0</crs:ToneMapStrength>
<crs:ConvertToGrayscale>False</crs:ConvertToGrayscale>
<crs:ToneCurveName>Medium Contrast</crs:ToneCurveName>
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<rdf:li>32, 22</rdf:li>
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Sorry. Yes XMP- does this show anything?
I notice it mentioned the colour space is AdobeRGB. Could this be a clue? Isn't it usually sRGB?

 

[inkytog]

Sorry. Yes XMP- does this show anything?
I notice it mentioned the colour space is AdobeRGB. Could this be a clue? Isn't it usually sRGB?

Also- is this the data from the file before it's been pulled into anything else or has the data been written in after import into photoshop or wherever?

 

[Doctorcobani]

Also- is this the data from the file before it's been pulled into anything else or has the data been written in after import into photoshop or wherever?

It's after import if you see this:

<stEvtarameters>converted from image/dng to image/tiff</stEvtarameters>
<stEvt:softwareAgent>Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 9.7 (Macintosh)</stEvt:softwareAgent>
<aux:LateralChromaticAberrationCorrectionAlreadyApplied>True</aux:LateralChromaticAberrationCorrectionAlreadyApplied>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2017-01-19T21:53:56+01:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:CreateDate>2017-01-19T12:47</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:CreatorTool>v01.02.1478</xmp:CreatorTool>
<xmp:Rating>0</xmp:Rating>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2017-01-19T21:53:56+01:00</xmp:MetadataDate>
<dc:format>image/tiff</dc:format>

Here is the stamp of ACR, it's not the metadata written by P4P.

And I add a curiosity that I forgot to mention: DNG is the abbreviation of "digital negative".

Enviado desde mi Nexus 6P mediante Tapatalk

 

[inkytog]

It's after import if you see this:

<stEvtarameters>converted from image/dng to image/tiff</stEvtarameters>
<stEvt:softwareAgent>Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 9.7 (Macintosh)</stEvt:softwareAgent>
<aux:LateralChromaticAberrationCorrectionAlreadyApplied>True</aux:LateralChromaticAberrationCorrectionAlreadyApplied>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2017-01-19T21:53:56+01:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:CreateDate>2017-01-19T12:47</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:CreatorTool>v01.02.1478</xmp:CreatorTool>
<xmp:Rating>0</xmp:Rating>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2017-01-19T21:53:56+01:00</xmp:MetadataDate>
<dc:format>image/tiff</dc:format>

Here is the stamp of ACR, it's not the metadata written by P4P.

And I add a curiosity that I forgot to mention: DNG is the abbreviation of "digital negative".

Enviado desde mi Nexus 6P mediante Tapatalk

Right - so can we see the file BEFORE it hits ACR or wherever you prefer to open it with - straight from the SD card and open. NO opening in anything else. Is there a way to do this?

 

[RicardoUK]

Funny thing DJI has admitted that the problem could be in the camera. So maybe many of you that insist that the DNG is amazing and perfect and how little do we understand about DNG and photography, might be wrong. Can that be possible?

Ups. hehehe

 

[F3honda4me]

Funny thing DJI has admitted that the problem could be in the camera. So maybe many of you that insist that the DNG is amazing and perfect and how little do we understand about DNG and photography, might be wrong. Can that be possible?

Ups. hehehe

View attachment 73928

That's their blanket response. They'll have you send it in to take a look at it. I could contact them and tell them the camera makes everyone I photograph look like Hitler and they'd say the same thing. You're talking to a low level customer service person going off a script. Not some DJI engineer.

 

[inkytog]

Funny thing DJI has admitted that the problem could be in the camera. So maybe many of you that insist that the DNG is amazing and perfect and how little do we understand about DNG and photography, might be wrong. Can that be possible?

Ups. hehehe

View attachment 73928

So every camera is faulty.
I will await a product recall.

 

[RicardoUK]

That's their blanket response. They'll have you send it in to take a look at it. I could contact them and tell them the camera makes everyone I photograph look like Hitler and they'd say the same thing. You're talking to a low level customer service person going off a script. Not some DJI engineer.

The point was that there´s a chance it could actually be the camera. I don´t care if it´s a low level or not. The point I wanted to make is that it could actually be something wrong with at least a few cameras presenting this issue.

 

[RicardoUK]

So every camera is faulty.
I will await a product recall.

great idea, starting with mine hehehe

 

[inkytog]

The point was that there´s a chance it could actually be the camera. I don´t care if it´s a low level or not. The point I wanted to make is that it could actually be something wrong with at least a few cameras presenting this issue.

You don't care if it's a stock reply?

Come on. You're an intelligent guy. The DJI support is low level cosy blanket. You're seeing what you want to see.

As the other chap said. If I called up and said the camera is not working I'd wager their response would be similar if not identical to the one you had.

 

[RicardoUK]

You don't care if it's a stock reply?

Come on. You're an intelligent guy. The DJI support is low level cosy blanket. You're seeing what you want to see.

As the other chap said. If I called up and said the camera is not working I'd wager their response would be similar if not identical to the one you had.

I agree with you, that´s why I don´t want to send it back. I want a firmware fix, because, again, at least to me, this shouldn´t be happening.

 

[Doctorcobani]

The point was that there´s a chance it could actually be the camera. I don´t care if it´s a low level or not. The point I wanted to make is that it could actually be something wrong with at least a few cameras presenting this issue.

But why my camera doesn't have this error?

And many users in this forum says that they don't have these problem too. I see DNG vs JPG like I see CR2 (RAW) vs JPG from my 6D. I see RAW without process (regardless the basic picture profile loaded by Lightroom) and a JPG with process (more contrast, less dynamic range, shadows crushed and with much less latitude).
If I could have these problem, I will see inmediately because i'm a pixel peeper and a guy with obsession for details in every scenario.

I think it's your unit faulty (camera). That is what DJI guy tried to say.

 

[gr8pics]

Its pretty funny, that a bunch of people having a perfectly working product, also speaks and confirms on behalf of those who dont, that there arent any problems at all.
If every large consumer company could have a couple of guys like that, they would get away with everything. they could just say "nah, its working here, so its nothing wrong with yours, have a nice day"
I bet that even IF the day should come an Dji admits it publicly, some guys here would still call us stupid and trolls

Even if the customer staff is low level, doesnt mean they dont have inside information next to them, about their products and typical issues, without knowing how to fix it, just how to act in that matter, in terms of taking it back, i mean, i THINK they probably have spoken to a couple of customers now since they started deliver this, and should recognize certain issues returning, but what do i know, maybe they suffer from short term memory as well.
At least the person at support could tell you it cannot be fixed with firmware updates, or should we just conclude that all DJI staff are just bluffing incompetent people trolling all their customers?

 

[Andrei V]

Such is the complexity of RAW and it could very well be DJI is applying incorrect metadata resulting in a default underexposed looking shot. Or it could be the lack of the correct profile for the tool you are using as Andrei suggests. But the important part of it is that if the shot was properly exposed in camera, the data is still there. Move the sliders and you'll see that you can achieve the full quality of the shot.

P.S. I have the same challenge with Davinci Resolve showing all my CinemaDNG shots from the X5R as darker than they were shot. It's a bit of a pain but the important point to remember always is the detail is there. It just needs the settings to be adjusted.

Interesting. I've noticed the same with the X5R and Davinci. Have you tried opening the files in ACR to compare? I wonder if perhaps we're not being misled by DJI Go's histogram, which is most likely based on the h264 proxy. Perhaps DJI is deliberatly lifting the shadows for the h246/h265/jpegs.

 

[Jussaguy]

Very weird handling of the files of this model i must say.
I never seen this before on any camera, but, the Dng files looks processed, fully saturated and high contrast, while the jpg looks dull and just how Dng is suppose to look like when unprocessed.
Anyone else noticed this?
I think i begin to understand now, why im not impressed with the picture quality of this one, cause ive been editing on already processed pics, even though they are Dng, and that is also why theres allot if noise introduced to the shadow areas.

This is my second unit of P4P, as i got the other one replaced by the local dealer, but i didnt notice this before today.
When i check the files from the previous unit, its the same.

Other than me?

I know this is on page 12 and probably has beaten ad nauseum by now but the DNG mode comes with a lot more metadata than a rasterized JPEG which is just an image to be manipulated while DNG has tons of info for you to color correct and to get it just how you want it.

I can't think of a good analogy at the moment but imagine a picture that is burned into something and another that is a layer of cels that you can dynamically manipulate each one. You simply have more latitude to do things to a raw DNG file than you can a JPEG. A JPEG is a deliverable (something you would eventually turn your DNG file into) and a DNG is an uncompressed file.

It's a lot like when people were complaining that D-Log looked bad because they don't have a basic understanding of color correction. That wasn't aimed at you, but rather at the people that were saying that about D-Log which I have found to be a very good color space and DNG is an industry proven color space format.

 

[Moonfox]

After update I was about 2 stops low even though histogram looked OK.

I reset camera settings and is OK now. Dlog working well for me. Although histogram seems to be about 1 stop lower lower than actual exposure than before update.