RAW is processed, JPG is not

[nickj]

Ok. You didn't mention that you had a profile set. So not to go on again. But you're comparing a JPEG shot with a profile baked in and custom colour set. You are exposing your image with a preset already enabled and this is what you're seeing. It's skewing your settings and preview in the app.

You cannot judge a correct exposure etc using any of the inbuilt colour profiles. They are for videos and JPEGS. Remove them. And shoot again.

Shoot with NONE and 0,0,0.

This is exactly what occurred to me after my last post, thank you Tomas & inkytog

My default camera for work is Red, the only reason I mention it is because you're able to monitor in a LUT or view RedLog (flat) during production whenever you'd like, AND that viewing flexibility transfers over directly to post-production (i.e. color-grade from RedLog or apply a LUT profile easily). That is what I'm used to. My 6d raw files function this way in ACR as well.

Starting with this contrasty image throws me off because I'm monitoring in a LUT that isn't being applied to the DNG (yet?... Adobe? Dji?).

Bottom line is: Monitor using Picture Styles for video and jpegs, but switch to None 0/0/0 for raw photography.

Yay!

 

[inkytog]

This is exactly what occurred to me after my last post, thank you Tomas & inkytog

My default camera for work is Red, the only reason I mention it is because you're able to monitor in a LUT or view RedLog (flat) during production whenever you'd like, AND that viewing flexibility transfers over directly to post-production (i.e. color-grade from RedLog or apply a LUT profile easily). That is what I'm used to. My 6d raw files function this way in ACR as well.

Starting with this contrasty image throws me off because I'm monitoring in a LUT that isn't being applied to the DNG (yet?... Adobe? Dji?).

Bottom line is: Monitor using Picture Styles for video and jpegs, but switch to None 0/0/0 for raw photography.

Yay!

Yes. Forget LUT's for photos. Totally separate.
You can preview on a playback monitor the image+LUT so if you're shooting In LOG you can of course preview with a curve applied which will show you on your monitor.

Essentially forget all that when it comes to stills.

 

[nickj]

Yes. Forget LUT's for photos. Totally separate.
You can preview on a playback monitor the image+LUT so if you're shooting In LOG you can of course preview with a curve applied which will show you on your monitor.

Essentially forget all that when it comes to stills.

Copy that, although I do wish a LOG-curve was applied to the DNG files... but I'm going to stop myself there

 

[inkytog]

Copy that, although I do wish a LOG-curve was applied to the DNG files... but I'm going to stop myself there

It won't. It won't ever be.
DJI don't have enough power to work with adobe. CaNikon have their picture styles switchable in their RAW editor.

For you as a video shooter you'll understand this. Even in DLOG on the p4p (which many think is poorly implemented) there isn't much more latitude in the files. It's not like shooting uncompressed video as in the RED raw and the grading in Resolve etc.

The DJI codecs are not so robust. There's loads of threads here about this- you might find that shooting non and 0,0,0 is preferable in video too. It's very hard to expose correctly in LOG when you have no way of previewing live with a LUT. The general consensus is that we really need to nail it in camera and not rely on post to rescue much (in video). The bitrate, colour depth etc are just not there and shooting flat may not help you get more latitude from the files in post.
It seems to be a common misnomer that flat is better. In cinematic kit like REDs and other cinema cams of course there is but they are a whole different league. At the moment the x5r is raw video but at a price and also on the inspire. About to be superseded but the new cameras recently launched.


So that is what the majority say about shooting flat. People get confused and expect the raw to represent what the colour profiles do. In photography it doesn't actually matter. Sure it means your starting point is set to a default but the default can be tweaked on import etc.

Separate out still images (RAW DNG) and video files. Largely ignore JPEG unless you need something for social media but even now LR mobile supports the RAW file as does ios 10.

Hope that makes sense.
R

 

[nickj]

It won't. It won't ever be.
DJI don't have enough power to work with adobe. CaNikon have their picture styles switchable in their RAW editor.

For you as a video shooter you'll understand this. Even in DLOG on the p4p (which many think is poorly implemented) there isn't much more latitude in the files. It's not like shooting uncompressed video as in the RED raw and the grading in Resolve etc.

The DJI codecs are not so robust. There's loads of threads here about this- you might find that shooting non and 0,0,0 is preferable in video too. It's very hard to expose correctly in LOG when you have no way of previewing live with a LUT. The general consensus is that we really need to nail it in camera and not rely on post to rescue much (in video). The bitrate, colour depth etc are just not there and shooting flat may not help you get more latitude from the files in post.
It seems to be a common misnomer that flat is better. In cinematic kit like REDs and other cinema cams of course there is but they are a whole different league. At the moment the x5r is raw video but at a price and also on the inspire. About to be superseded but the new cameras recently launched.


So that is what the majority say about shooting flat. People get confused and expect the raw to represent what the colour profiles do. In photography it doesn't actually matter. Sure it means your starting point is set to a default but the default can be tweaked on import etc.

Separate out still images (RAW DNG) and video files. Largely ignore JPEG unless you need something for social media but even now LR mobile supports the RAW file as does ios 10.

Hope that makes sense.
R

Thank you, yes I've researched and witnessed the ongoing issues with D-Log, compared to Sony's own SLOG2 it appears inferior as well. I understand the limitations of the 8-bit video coming out of these cameras compared to something like a Red (or even a 10-bit camera), and yet I still prefer starting with a somewhat flat image to try preserve a bit of crucial highlight/shadow detail, just in case. I suppose this aspect is subjective, to a point

I've been using D-Cinelike with various adjustments at the moment, however I've only just received my ND filters yesterday (finally!), so some real testing can begin at correct apertures and shutter speeds.

Just hoping over to Sony's page I see them list the RX-100 II as shooting 14-bit raw stills. Does that hold true for this camera system as well?

Cheers

 

[RicardoUK]

This is a RAW file and a JPG out form Canon 5D MIII. Under camera profile of ACR It has several options. SO as some people mentioned before it most be a problem of the ACR profiles which is applying it to the RAW. I will try updating it or hope DJI in a Firmware goes back to the P4 profile or something more general that ACR can read.


Thanks

 

[inkytog]

Thank you, yes I've researched and witnessed the ongoing issues with D-Log, compared to Sony's own SLOG2 it appears inferior as well. I understand the limitations of the 8-bit video coming out of these cameras compared to something like a Red (or even a 10-bit camera), and yet I still prefer starting with a somewhat flat image to try preserve a bit of crucial highlight/shadow detail, just in case. I suppose this aspect is subjective, to a point

I've been using D-Cinelike with various adjustments at the moment, however I've only just received my ND filters yesterday (finally!), so some real testing can begin at correct apertures and shutter speeds.

Just hoping over to Sony's page I see them list the RX-100 II as shooting 14-bit raw stills. Does that hold true for this camera system as well?

Cheers

Yup. It just means their raw file is meant to be 'better'. More likely marketing speak.

Stills and video separate things. Unless the video is raw video then it's the moving image equivalent of a JPEG.

 

[Wallie78]

Hi Guys, I am experiencing the same issue, I was flying my P4P today, correctly exposed all Still shots and the RAW file is nearly 3 stops under once imported. I see Ricardo's point. On every other drone I own, what I see on my iPad preview is pretty close to what I get once I get it into Lightroom to adjust anything I need to adjust but the version I get back is nowhere near what I shot out in the field. Sure I can boost the exposure on these dark dng's but Ricardos' point is why do we need to boost it 2/3 stops when we have never had to before..Hoping the profile is the key!

 

[Tomas Wangen]

Hi Guys, I am experiencing the same issue, I was flying my P4P today, correctly exposed all Still shots and the RAW file is nearly 3 stops under once imported. I see Ricardo's point. On every other drone I own, what I see on my iPad preview is pretty close to what I get once I get it into Lightroom to adjust anything I need to adjust but the version I get back is nowhere near what I shot out in the field. Sure I can boost the exposure on these dark dng's but Ricardos' point is why do we need to boost it 2/3 stops when we have never had to before..Hoping the profile is the key!

The latest firmware update will add a two stop underexposure (in auto, a and s mode) when using the dlog profile as compared to none. If you do not shoot in manual and/or watch the histogram, this will for most scenes give the results you have seen for raw.

As long as you expose-to-the-right, this is no big issue (as it is evident in the histogram), but the best way to ensure a proper exposure for raw, is to use the none-profile combined with a 0 contrast as the whole histogram then best matches the raw dynamic range of the sensor (and therefore will cause fewer surprises).

dlog is really only meaningful for video where when we want to preserve the shadows. The underexposure is probably added to increase the chance of preserving the highlights for sunny scenes (as these will both be lost in the 8 bit conversion which we do not have for raw).

Bottom line: to ensure you do not have a bias for a particular scene, you will have to check to histogram both for video and for stills. You do want the whole right-most side to be used ideally with no clipping. Using dlog will add a inverse s curve to the histogram so that will not match (though you can trust the highlights clippingpoint)

 

[Wallie78]

Thanks Tomas, I shoot in Manual, does anyone shoot in Auto anymore?? Yes I was shooting Dlog for video and swapping over for the Stills...thanks for the tips, much appreciated!

 

[Wallie78]

While I'm at it, I've noticed a very cold colour temp applied using D-Log when shooting a beautiful warm sunset this afternoon, anyone else experienced this? And yes I was on Sunny WB

 

[ianwood]

Copy that, although I do wish a LOG-curve was applied to the DNG files... but I'm going to stop myself there

You wouldn't gain anything. The DNG already has the widest latitude the sensor can achieve at that exposure.

 

[jack1144]

While I'm at it, I've noticed a very cold colour temp applied using D-Log when shooting a beautiful warm sunset this afternoon, anyone else experienced this? And yes I was on Sunny WB

The "sunny" white balance setting is quite high , so going to be very blue near sunset/rise.
Colour temp at sunset could go from 4k down to 2k.
Try a custom WB and it will show you what it is for your given light.
Sorry I see not the topic.

 

[Wallie78]

The "sunny" white balance setting is quite high , so going to be very blue near sunset/rise.
Colour temp at sunset could go from 4k down to 2k.
Try a custom WB and it will show you what it is for your given light.
Sorry I see not the topic.

Sunny white balance is set at 5600K, that should be great for a warm temperatures sunset but the highlights are very blue in Colour. The sunny white balance gives me great results on my inspire but very different on the new p4p...what u see on the monitor differs greatly in the edit suite, especially on the stills. Still getting my head around this new toy it seems

 

[Wallie78]

This is a RAW file and a JPG out form Canon 5D MIII. Under camera profile of ACR It has several options. SO as some people mentioned before it most be a problem of the ACR profiles which is applying it to the RAW. I will try updating it or hope DJI in a Firmware goes back to the P4 profile or something more general that ACR can read.


ThanksView attachment 74253

Hi Ricardo, any luck for u? My raw dng's are constantly 3 stops under? I'm now 'overexposing' to compensate but then the Jpegs are now overexposed.