John A. Taylor sues FAA

[spankybear]

Back after 9/11 the ATF classified APCP model rocket engines "explosives". NAR and Tripoli called BS on the ATF, fought and won. I would believe that AMA is a bigger organization than NAR and Tripoli together. The AMA doesn't seem to want to fight?

BTW Model rocketry also deals with the FAA as our crafts fly MUCH MUCH higher. My personal best is 6700' AGL I have seen 45,000 AGL launches. As a matter of fact... the UAV regs make it clear rockets don't need to be registered. Wonder if NAR and Tripoli had anything to do with that? Sure wasn't the AMA...

 

[tcope]

Tcope
Here you go. A link to the actual document.http://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/Home/News/All-News/2016/TaylorPetition.pdf

Thank you for the links.

Here is my take on the matter. I think the FAA will win... either adding personal views to the case or ruling just on the law. Here is the issue:

"(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system."

It's only a _slight_ stretch to say that in order to pursue action against people who endanger the NAS, the FAA needs to be able to locate those people. Hence, the need for the registration in order to maintain a safe NAS. The FAA has always said that they are not taking action under Section 336a, rather under their requirement to maintain a safe NAS. Section 336a specifically states that it won't interfere with this requirement. So the FAAs only hurdle is to convince a judge that the registration is only being done to allow the FAA to locate people who are not operating in a safe manner and is not only a restriction on people flying as a hobby. Here is a key question... how does the registration limit someone that wants to fly as a hobby? It does not. So the registration really does not go against Section 336a:

"(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if— (1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;"

Subsection b, listed above, was put in as an entirely separate sub section and is very clear in it's wording. It's only purpose is to make it clear that the FAA can still do what they need to do in order to maintain safe airspace. Being able to hold people responsible for violations is part of that. If you can't enforce your own rules against people then those rules are worthless. Put that together with argument that the registration does not limit someone's ability to fly as a hobby is why I think Taylor's motion will lose.

I'm not for regulations against drones. We all know it is happening (illegally) and will happen (legally from the FAA) but I also understand that something needs to be done to get the media and public off our backs. They are painting drones as an issue when they are really not a problem. Until something is done, they will continue to use lies about safety against us. So I don't really see the registration as a bad thing. It does not affect us at all and only helps make it look like it creates safety. It could be _much_ worse!

My 2 cents.

 

[TheRealNick]

I hope he wins....AMA was one of the groups involved with coming up with the solution. They only seem upset that people can't use their AMA number to register so they are not really against registration. Just because there are larger doesn't mean they have the same viewpoint (against registration). All we need is law against recklessness....which we already have....everything else is a waste. We will see how many people they actually track down as a result of registration....my guess is not many....

 

[oakmeadows]

Its amazing that one gentleman is going to take the FAA to task concerning the registration of the so called drones. Its also amazing that the AMA organization of 175,000 members strong didn't do this themselves, like Mr, Taylor said I'm passionate about this even though not being an aviation expert, he is a lawyer however. What kind of backbone does the AMA have and gives members and non misguided information about registration etc. Powerful they are not, I think we should support Mr. Taylor instead. Look this concerns everyone really so I suggest you pay attention, the next thing we will be told we cant breathe the very air without paying to do so. This isn't funny anymore, its not about people flying over the rules set, its about principle folks, I suggest everyone show some balls before you lose them, fight on stay vigilant or you will lose to the very government that is already strangling us. god bless , give your opinion

glad someone else thinks the same , good on you



Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[tcope]

All we need is law against recklessness....which we already have....everything else is a waste. We will see how many people they actually track down as a result of registration....my guess is not many....

I agree, however as you mention we already have this... and as a result we have media telling people drones are going to be taking photos of them inside their homes, drones flying into airplanes and killing people, drones buzzing over their heads, etc. We also have local law makers making illegal laws against people who fly drones. So are the current laws working to prevent all of that? Clearly not.

Has the registration stopped or hindered you in anyway from flying the same why you flew prior to the registration? Was the $5 for 3 years a hardship? So, let's be honest... is the registration really such a bad thing or perhaps we just have this knee jerk reaction to anything that sounds more restrictive.

I will add this... I'm certainly against a search of the registry being open to the public. There is _no_ good reason for this and I think it was added just to intimidate flyers. I really think Taylor should add this to his motion.

 

[TheRealNick]

I agree, however as you mention we already have this... and as a result we have media telling people drones are going to be taking photos of them inside their homes, drones flying into airplanes and killing people, drones buzzing over their heads, etc. We also have local law makers making illegal laws against people who fly drones. So are the current laws working to prevent all of that? Clearly not.

Has the registration stopped or hindered you in anyway from flying the same why you flew prior to the registration? Was the $5 for 3 years a hardship? So, let's be honest... is the registration really such a bad thing or perhaps we just have this knee jerk reaction to anything that sounds more restrictive.

I will add this... I'm certainly against a search of the registry being open to the public. There is _no_ good reason for this and I think it was added just to intimidate flyers. I really think Taylor should add this to his motion.

Does the public now love drones? Has registration solved that? It is the idea of it starting....the more regulations we have the less free we are. Eventually everyone will probably have to have some kind of license to fly...

From Serenity....

"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

 

[tcope]

Does the public now love drones? Has registration solved that?

It's only been 1 month. But there were many news articles put out about the registration. I also think local law makers know about it as well. I have little doubt that public perception will start to turn around as a result.

It is the idea of it starting....the more regulations we have the less free we are. Eventually everyone will probably have to have some kind of license to fly...

I'm certainly with you on that. However, would you prefer no laws or regulation on the operation of vehicles for example? It's the same with all aircraft.... they needs to be some regulation. But we are not really talking regulation. We are talking about registration. Registration is the means by with the _current_ regulations can be enforced. So your point, while I agree with it, is not on point here. The regulation is yet to come. It's currently being worked on. Save some angst for when that hits. I'm sure I won't be happy with some items I'm pretty sure they will ad.

Let me change a little from my last post.... I think Taylor should argue that the _regulations) (VLOS and daylight flight only) cannot be placed in the registration. I think that is a much better point.

 

[DCDrone]

Here's the brief in this case:
http://bit.ly/28ADz7H

Summarized here:
Inside the Legal Challenge to the FAA’s Drone Registry

 

[Apilot101]

Is it amazing or a huge waste of Mr. Taylor's money? I think the AMA would have already done the same if they knew they could win.

I think he got his money's worth... Thank you Mr Taylor.

 

[msinger]

I think he got his money's worth... Thank you Mr Taylor.

I guess you've already read the news... but, it seems the battle is not over yet.

Press Release – FAA Statement Regarding US Court of Appeals Decision

 

[stubblefield]

Mr. Taylor has won the first battle: Court strikes down rule forcing toy drone users to register with govt

In this thread:
Friend of a Friend Fined $1800 no registration on drone..i have questions
I could never figure why everyone could not understand that Congress was specific in directing the FAA to NOT regulate hobby aircraft. I did still register though.

 

[Apilot101]

FAA has no legal ground to stand on.

FAA doesn't really want to deal with drones. It was nothing more than need media hype and a mad Congressman demand FAA do something because someone had a crashed drone in his back yard.

 

[John Locke]

FAA doesn't really want to deal with drones. It was nothing more than need media hype and a mad Congressman demand FAA do something because someone had a crashed drone in his back yard.

Which congressman are you referring to, I hadn't heard that story before. Do you have a link to it?

 

[Zigs]

It is my observation the AMA saw drone registration as much from the standpoint of how it could insert itself into the process for it's own purposes as protecting the rights of its members. That aside, there could be unintended consequences to this decision. It invites the potential for Congressional intervention . . . and we know most things Congress kisses turns to toads. Look what's happening in other countries. Restrictions could get much worse.

 

[The Suburban Hippie]

Mr. Taylor has won the first battle: Court strikes down rule forcing toy drone users to register with govt

In this thread:
Friend of a Friend Fined $1800 no registration on drone..i have questions
I could never figure why everyone could not understand that Congress was specific in directing the FAA to NOT regulate hobby aircraft. I did still register though.

Thanks guys for resurrecting this thread! I had decided this board was a waste of time...

Well, well well... Interesting how everyone was so critical of myself and others for posting negatively about the FAA registration for hobby drones. This, and it seems that the order was IN FACT illegal just like myself and others said it was! How do we know, because this was struck down.....

I object to a government that can not follow it's own laws.

Now too bad the damage is already done... I knew this would happen.

See, now the government has everyone's information, and guess what? The government has proven incompetent to handle information. How do I know? Because of the MILLIONS of peoples data the government was supposed to be safe guarding for peoples security clearances and didn't protect. Information like peoples social security numbers, mothers maiden names etc...

Everything a criminal needs to open a fake account in your name.

Lawsuits should be filed, and people should loose their jobs for breaking the law.

Now for me, it no longer matters, as have my license. I never had an issue with giving my information and getting something in return like being able to use my drone for commercial purposes.

See what I objected to after reading the law was that there was one on the books clearly stating clearly that the FAA could NOT regulate hobby aircraft.

Two, that they did NOT allow the 60 day public comment period.

Now finally, John A Taylor won this. NOT THE AMA! So that is what your AMA membership has paid for. NOTHING!!!!

Finally, I am going to tell other people not to believe people like some posters here that tell you things are futile! That it is ridiculous to fight for what is right!

John A Taylor was fighting for your rights. I made a contribution to his legal fees.

The AMA seems to have done nothing. How about some change in AMA leadership? Maybe some younger men with some will to fight?