How do you increase exposure time?

[With The Birds]

Given the Phantom lens has a fixed aperture (i.e. F2.8) your only available means of adjusting exposure time ("TV") is, as you have correctly arrived at, to adjust the ISO setting. You could fit ND filters to increase exposure time hower it is unlikely you may encounter a sufficiently brightly lit scene for that to be a consideration for night shots.

I cant tell you what the ISO setting might be for a given TV as the overall exposure value is determined by scene brightness. What is a given is that increasing ISO will reduce exposure time.

I have proposed a maximum practical exposure time of 3 seconds as beyond that you are unlikely to avoid blurring in the final image as a result of the camera moving during the exposure. Even at 3 seconds you will need to take multiple frames as not all will be at acceptable sharpness.

From experience with these small sensor cameras the best images in low light exposing to the right of the histogram, i.e. Increasing ISO to the point where we get closer to our 3 minute practical TV limit with the brightest elements in the scene close to, or right on, the upper limit of the sensor (the histogram will show us that). In general any noise introduced by higher ISO tends to be less objectionable, and easier to deal with in post, than loss of detail in the darker areas (you cant find it in post no matter what you do if it wasn't recorded).

 

[LV632553]

View attachment 65047


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Beautiful shot of HK...!!!


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[LV632553]

Time Lapse of down town Bangkok taken with Phantom 3 adv
ISO 100
shutter speed : 2sec
Time interval between frame : 4sec

 

[deltalimatango]

Given the Phantom lens has a fixed aperture (i.e. F2.8) your only available means of adjusting exposure time ("TV") is, as you have correctly arrived at, to adjust the ISO setting. You could fit ND filters to increase exposure time hower it is unlikely you may encounter a sufficiently brightly lit scene for that to be a consideration for night shots.

I cant tell you what the ISO setting might be for a given TV as the overall exposure value is determined by scene brightness. What is a given is that increasing ISO will reduce exposure time.

I have proposed a maximum practical exposure time of 3 seconds as beyond that you are unlikely to avoid blurring in the final image as a result of the camera moving during the exposure. Even at 3 seconds you will need to take multiple frames as not all will be at acceptable sharpness.

From experience with these small sensor cameras the best images in low light exposing to the right of the histogram, i.e. Increasing ISO to the point where we get closer to our 3 minute practical TV limit with the brightest elements in the scene close to, or right on, the upper limit of the sensor (the histogram will show us that). In general any noise introduced by higher ISO tends to be less objectionable, and easier to deal with in post, than loss of detail in the darker areas (you cant find it in post no matter what you do if it wasn't recorded).

WTB, we speak the same language. Small sensors simply do not have the capacity to produce very reliable night images. I will try your shooting to the right idea, as I mentioned before with my DSLR, I shoot to the left and recover in post. The D810 and D500 are simply shadow hounds. They record so much detail. I use the Nikon software to recover it though as the RAW engine in Lightroom is really not that great. I have written DJI regarding feature upgrades and I mentioned that a new and larger sensor would be welcomed. Fingers crossed. I don't want to have to buy an Inspire RAW but I will if I decide that I really want to invest in this.

 

[With The Birds]

WTB, we speak the same language. Small sensors simply do not have the capacity to produce very reliable night images. I will try your shooting to the right idea, as I mentioned before with my DSLR, I shoot to the left and recover in post. The D810 and D500 are simply shadow hounds. They record so much detail. I use the Nikon software to recover it though as the RAW engine in Lightroom is really not that great. I have written DJI regarding feature upgrades and I mentioned that a new and larger sensor would be welcomed. Fingers crossed. I don't want to have to buy an Inspire RAW but I will if I decide that I really want to invest in this.

Please let me know how you get on exposing to the right. I am extremely confident it will pay off. If you haven't already take a few extra frames and do a stack, align, and median merge in photoshop (after your initial adjustments on the RAW files). It's a lot of extra rooting around but you should get some usable images.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Please let me know how you get on exposing to the right. I am extremely confident it will pay off. If you haven't already take a few extra frames and do a stack, align, and median merge in photoshop (after your initial adjustments on the RAW files). It's a lot of extra rooting around but you should get some usable images.

Mine exposes to the right all the time. I want to slide the slider bad to center. LOL

 

[9245]

Given the Phantom lens has a fixed aperture (i.e. F2.8) your only available means of adjusting exposure time ("TV") is, as you have correctly arrived at, to adjust the ISO setting. You could fit ND filters to increase exposure time hower it is unlikely you may encounter a sufficiently brightly lit scene for that to be a consideration for night shots.

I cant tell you what the ISO setting might be for a given TV as the overall exposure value is determined by scene brightness. What is a given is that increasing ISO will reduce exposure time.

I have proposed a maximum practical exposure time of 3 seconds as beyond that you are unlikely to avoid blurring in the final image as a result of the camera moving during the exposure. Even at 3 seconds you will need to take multiple frames as not all will be at acceptable sharpness.

From experience with these small sensor cameras the best images in low light exposing to the right of the histogram, i.e. Increasing ISO to the point where we get closer to our 3 minute practical TV limit with the brightest elements in the scene close to, or right on, the upper limit of the sensor (the histogram will show us that). In general any noise introduced by higher ISO tends to be less objectionable, and easier to deal with in post, than loss of detail in the darker areas (you cant find it in post no matter what you do if it wasn't recorded).

Thanks, that is much clearer. So ISO is the only setting I am tweaking? Do I increase it, or decrease it? How do I know it is a 3 second exposure if ISO varies?

 

[With The Birds]

Increasing ISO reduces TV. The go app tells you what your settings are. You may be best shooting auto for a while until you get your head around this. You can still dial in exposure compensation in auto made if you want to increase overall scene brightness.

 

[deltalimatango]

Increasing ISO reduces TV. The go app tells you what your settings are. You may be best shooting auto for a while until you get your head around this. You can still dial in exposure compensation in auto made if you want to increase overall scene brightness.

One good idea might be to simply take your drone outside during the day and put the camera into manual mode and go through the settings, all the while paying attention to the results on your monitor. Start with the exposure around say 1/250 sec. As you increase exposure (1/250 sec up to say 1 sec or longer), you will see the scene get brighter to the point where it washes out and becomes white. As you decrease exposure the scene becomes dark. Now play with the ISO but return the exposure to 1/250 sec and not play with the ISO. Increase the ISO from say 100 to 1600 and you will notice that the scene gets darker. Now do the opposite, go from 1600 all the way as low as you can go and you will see the scene get brighter. Don't fly the drone, just sit there without the props and have the camera do the work. Let us know if this helps.

 

[Ur Met]

8 sec, iso 1600 shot from p4.

Brightness further increased, but no noise reduction applied in post.

It was basically pitch dark outside, it seems much brighter on the photo.

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[9245]

I think I have figured it out, I set the ISO to 100 and spun the wheel all the way over then to 3 which I think is a 3 second exposure correct? Anyway I took some HDR pictures at what I think was a 3 second exposure (note taillight blue in picture 4), as was mentioned it took several tries each to get a non blurry one, but these are the best (I have done nothing in post, I just saved them directly from the Go app, I haven't even pulled the memery card yet):

So how did I do?

 

[LV632553]

I think I have figured it out, I set the ISO to 100 and spun the wheel all the way over then to 3 which I think is a 3 second exposure correct? Anyway I took some HDR pictures at what I think was a 3 second exposure (note taillight blue in picture 4), as was mentioned it took several tries each to get a non blurry one, but these are the best (I have done nothing in post, I just saved them directly from the Go app, I haven't even pulled the memery card yet):

So how did I do?

WoW...!!!Beautiful congrats


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[Helihover]

Nice shots!

Here's another 8 sec shot (ISO 100) captured about 15 minutes ago. I was trying to capture the fog hovering around the lights, but I was too far away. Fail:/. I just thought you guys might like to see another 8 seconder, lol

 

[MX DAD]

I shot this one night flying over Helsinki, Finland

EXIF data:
1/13 Sec @ f/2.8
EV Bias -3
ISO 1600

I used Noiseless or DFine (can't remember) to remove digital noise.

Nice one. What is the light at the very top? It looks like another bird? Good work man.

 

[Cactus Wren]

Cameras are just a part of it. Yo need good and capable sensors. DJI uses in house sensors on the P4. If they had used maybe the Sony sensors, night imaging would be better.

Sony sensors are the best. And I say that as someone who shoots with expensive Canon gear ...

 

[deltalimatango]

Sony sensors are the best. And I say that as someone who shoots with expensive Canon gear ...

Agreed. People talk about Sony cameras having great night time ability and it is true but that is all they have. The menu system is a disaster and the sensors, while being amazing provide very little DNR. I shoot a Nikon D810 (best DNR on a non medium format camera) and a D500 and there is no question about the performance of either of these.

 

[With The Birds]

Agreed. People talk about Sony cameras having great night time ability and it is true but that is all they have. The menu system is a disaster and the sensors, while being amazing provide very little DNR. I shoot a Nikon D810 (best DNR on a non medium format camera) and a D500 and there is no question about the performance of either of these.

The D810 is a Sony sensor? Not sure about the D500. The Nikon's all win hands down in the handling dept, I'd challenge anyone to pick a difference in the files from Sony/Nikon however. The A7R II (Sony) scores 13.9 vs 14.8 EVs for the 810 according to DX0Mark testing so DR is close to a stop higher. Both are fantastic.

 

[deltalimatango]

The D810 is a Sony sensor? Not sure about the D500. The Nikon's all win hands down in the handling dept, I'd challenge anyone to pick a difference in the files from Sony/Nikon however. The A7R II (Sony) scores 13.9 vs 14.8 EVs for the 810 according to DX0Mark testing so DR is close to a stop higher. Both are fantastic.

Yup. The D810 uses a Sony sensor. The D500, as far as I have been able to ascertain also uses a Sony sensor but tweaked to Nikon specifications. Also, that 13.9 vs. 14.8 is almost one full stop. That is a big difference when pulling shadows or trying to recover and over exposure.

 

[Jussaguy]

The best camera is the one with a good photographer behind it. Cameras don't take good pics, photographers do.

This is true, but you need a good camera, good film (media). A painter can't paint without a canvas and paint. A sculptor can't sculpt without marble, stone or whatever.

I agree with your principle actually but we need to be honest. We are not in full control until you are using excellent cameras. We are not quite there exactly yet on the Phantoms. Not too far but right now if you want a very good camera, you need to step up from the Phantom.

I was under the impression that the sensors were indeed the same Sony's the've been using for a couple years.

This is an old blog post from DJI, but this was an interesting read:

Hasselblad and DJI Form Strategic Partnership

 

[deltalimatango]

Best post ever. As a photographer I get so tired of that tired meme.


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