Flying above clouds - Bad idea?

Wow, with all those qualifications you would think you could have read my comments properly. I said . . .

"I would NOT recommend flying in clouds with a Phantom."

The word of importance here is 'RECOMMEND', I also stated my reasons for saying what I said which are perfectly valid,

You can do exactly as you wish, however encouraging others to go against rules is not a good idea for anyone to do,

If you think getting a Phantom wet is a good idea ask those who have accidentally got theres wet and paid the price.

Oh and by-the-way, as you are such an accomplished boffin you obviously know the reason manufacturers of mobile phones and tablets etc put water sensors in their units, it's so they can see if they got wet thus invalidating warranty.

Have a great day,
 
Wow, with all those qualifications you would think you could have read my comments properly. I said . . .

"I would NOT recommend flying in clouds with a Phantom."

The word of importance here is 'RECOMMEND', I also stated my reasons for saying what I said which are perfectly valid,

You can do exactly as you wish, however encouraging others to go against rules is not a good idea for anyone to do,

If you think getting a Phantom wet is a good idea ask those who have accidentally got theres wet and paid the price.

Oh and by-the-way, as you are such an accomplished boffin you obviously know the reason manufacturers of mobile phones and tablets etc put water sensors in their units, it's so they can see if they got wet thus invalidating warranty.

Have a great day,


You can recommend whatever you like. However your reasoning and your understanding of electricity and water are not "perfectly valid." Water sensors inside cell phones are to tell if they were immersed in water, not used outdoors on a foggy day. Fog and clouds are exactly the same thing except for their elevation. Using your phone or your Phantom in fog or clouds does not invalidate the warranty. As for the legality of flying in clouds, I agree, it's a no-no. So is flying your drone where you can't constantly see it, but people do that all the time.

The topic here is flying ABOVE clouds, not IN them. There are several ways to fly above clouds without necessarily flying in or through them. For example you could be on a hill or mountain with a cloud layer below. You could legally fly above those clouds as long as you can see your drone. This is not a theoretical point, as where I live it is quite common to be above a layer of fog or clouds.
 
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Ah, I'm glad you agree with me that Fog and Clouds are the same thing (there are people on here that think they are different). I see you also agree with my comments on flying 'in' clouds.

What you say about people doing things all the time is totally irrelevant.

A phone exposed to low cloud or 'Fog' as some like to call it (say on a moorland) can fail due to the dampness, I know that for a fact because it happened to me trekking on moorland a couple of years ago, so it's not really theoretical.

As I referenced flying above the clouds in my earlier post I would have thought you realised that I knew what the thread was called. Here's my comment!

"Mind you 'ABOVE' clouds, now there's a view to behold!"

There was a thread a few weeks ago titled "Phantom 4 flown into clouds", something very similar to that, perhaps you would like to read it?

Have a nice day.
 
Here is a new video above fog
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password heaven
No issue or problem of humidity. It's incredibile how this "toy" can change your prospective.
 
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Part 107: 200 feet below clouds


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Actually, for Part 107 I believe it is 500 ft below clouds. 200 is for manned VFR.
 
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It was very interesting to read the statement that electronic components are quite water resistant...... To my knowledge when circuit boards are cleaned they are not part of a full assembly nor switched on. The actual parts may be " water resistant" however water is a good conductor of electricity and using a wet RF control in a flying drone probably is not a good idea as well as the logic circuits, and motors.
I spent many years in a marine environment working with dead electronics designed for use in damp conditions...... Electronics and water do not get on well together!!


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It was very interesting to read the statement that electronic components are quite water resistant...... To my knowledge when circuit boards are cleaned they are not part of a full assembly nor switched on. The actual parts may be " water resistant" however water is a good conductor of electricity and using a wet RF control in a flying drone probably is not a good idea as well as the logic circuits, and motors.
I spent many years in a marine environment working with dead electronics designed for use in damp conditions...... Electronics and water do not get on well together!!


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Just note that flying into a cloud or fog (which are the same thing) will not affect the electronic for 2 reasons. First the air movement of the propellers will not allow water to build. Secondly the water in the clouds as well as rain is almost in a pure state. In pure water there is no electricity conduction.
 
Assuming that the internal components of the drone are sterile and have absolutly no contamination from previous flights such as dust etc. Distilled water will conduct but not as efficiently as tap or sea water due to contaminates. Exactly how many angels can balence on the point of a needle?
 
It was very interesting to read the statement that electronic components are quite water resistant...... To my knowledge when circuit boards are cleaned they are not part of a full assembly nor switched on. The actual parts may be " water resistant" however water is a good conductor of electricity and using a wet RF control in a flying drone probably is not a good idea as well as the logic circuits, and motors.
I spent many years in a marine environment working with dead electronics designed for use in damp conditions...... Electronics and water do not get on well together!!


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An important point to note in this discussion is that not all wet/damp environments are equal in terms of effects on electronics.

In marine conditions, the water involved is actually a saline solution, and extremely destructive to electronics, both in terms of its chemical interactions and because the dissolved sodium and chloride ions make it very electrically conductive.

Ground water, and also regular tap water, have nowhwere near the ionic concentration of sea water, and are chemically far more inert, but likely still have sufficient ions to be a significant electrical conductor.

Rain is effectively distilled water (until contaminated on the ground), and so has very little in the way of dissolved solids but may exhibit limited ionic conduction if it has formed in polluted atmospheric conditions. Generally not very conductive at all.

The fine, condensed water droplets that form fog and clouds are generally pure water, with extremely limited electrical conductivity. Prolonged exposure of electronics (especially RF components) may lead to problems, but it's unlikely to be a significant problem for short durations.
 
Regardless of the varied theories, I would never want my drone to be wet. Water and electronics don't mix. I have lost more than one cell phone by getting them wet.
 
Would it be silly to suggest that the clouds will dampen the drone forming water droplets that will leak into the air vents? Plus any dirt or natural dust will be swept onto the water droplets as it goes in the air vents. Just to say that I am in no way judgmental and I enjoy watching cloud footage. But to me water is water no matter what form it comes in be it cloud, fog, rain, etc... I wouldn't fly in light drizzly rain and the same goes for cloud. All I say is attempt to cloud film if you need but please do it in an open field miles away from a public place. Last thing we need is the first ever "drone murderer" that killed someone as it dropped from 2000 feet [emoji6]

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Whilst there 'may' be a little merit in what sar104 says above ''The fine, condensed water droplets that form fog and clouds are generally pure water' it is certainly not based on FACT. The reason is simply this, within clouds there is a myriad of other things other than water vapour and condensed water vapour, How many people have washed their car in the evening only to come out in the morning after it has rained to find their car with a layer of desert dust from hundreds (or even thousands of miles away as here, where I live) dust that has descended/fallen with the overnight shower? leaves, plastic bags, newspapers, allsorts spend time above, so the water is not so 'pure' as implied.

I firmly stick by my comment of "I would NOT recommend flying in clouds with a Phantom."

You do as you wish.

Taking off above cloud I feel holds no risk in this regard, however flying through Clouds/Fog is taking risk with no real need other than being able to stand at the Bar, sticking your chest out and bragging 'OH I'm not afraid of a little WATER.

Have a nice day, and Oh yes, stay dry!:D
 
Air in the clouds isn't always calm either. I have flown the Cessna into a few clouds. It sometimes results in a rough ride.

You will be totally reliant on the electronics to keep it upright since you won't be able to see it or have the FPV.

Along with it being against the rules, it is not a risk that I would want to take with an expensive drone. The risk / reward ratio is tilted toward the risk side.
 
Whilst there 'may' be a little merit in what sar104 says above ''The fine, condensed water droplets that form fog and clouds are generally pure water' it is certainly not based on FACT. The reason is simply this, within clouds there is a myriad of other things other than water vapour and condensed water vapour, How many people have washed their car in the evening only to come out in the morning after it has rained to find their car with a layer of desert dust from hundreds (or even thousands of miles away as here, where I live) dust that has descended/fallen with the overnight shower? leaves, plastic bags, newspapers, allsorts spend time above, so the water is not so 'pure' as implied.

I firmly stick by my comment of "I would NOT recommend flying in clouds with a Phantom."

You do as you wish.

Taking off above cloud I feel holds no risk in this regard, however flying through Clouds/Fog is taking risk with no real need other than being able to stand at the Bar, sticking your chest out and bragging 'OH I'm not afraid of a little WATER.

Have a nice day, and Oh yes, stay dry!:D

Actually that comment is based on fact. The nucleated droplets in clouds are quite pure. The high dust/particulate loading that is sometimes seen in the water that hits the ground as rain is mostly picked up by the falling precipitation on the way down. That was why I explicitly separated rain and cloud water, and mentioned that rain formed in polluted atmospheric conditions may be conductive.

But smog would certainly be an exception too, so you are correct that not all suspended water will be pure.

And just to add - I don't disagree with the general advice that flying in clouds or fog is more risky to the aircraft, and likely breaks the LOS requirement. The point of my post was just to clarify that, contrary to the assertions in a number of other posts, water is not, necessarily, just water, or always the same in terms of its effects.
 
"Rain is distilled water, until it is contaminated by the ground" I suppose that the acid rain falling in many parts of the world is yet another "Illusion"? Pure distilled rain is unlikely to happen in any industrial nation that depends on fossil fuel ..... Textbooks and university studies consistently confirm this to be a fact..... Unless you read a report that pre dates the 50's when spectrum analyzers were not developed. However pre industrial ice taken from Antartica shows a steady increase in both particulates and acid levels dating back to the industrial revolution....
Meanwhile apart from being illegal, and a bad idea generally I would strongly suggest that the amazing views above clouds are best left to aircraft, condors, mountaineers and skiers


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"Rain is distilled water, until it is contaminated by the ground" I suppose that the acid rain falling in many parts of the world is yet another "Illusion"? Pure distilled rain is unlikely to happen in any industrial nation that depends on fossil fuel ..... Textbooks and university studies consistently confirm this to be a fact..... Unless you read a report that pre dates the 50's when spectrum analyzers were not developed. However pre industrial ice taken from Antartica shows a steady increase in both particulates and acid levels dating back to the industrial revolution....
Meanwhile apart from being illegal, and a bad idea generally I would strongly suggest that the amazing views above clouds are best left to aircraft, condors, mountaineers and skiers


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Perhaps you could at least attempt to read entire posts before responding.
 

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