Fixing DJI's Compass Problem

The observations in this thread regarding variation in behavior depending on startup orientation suggest some very fundamental flaws in the existing firmware - presumably the Naza firmware since the gimbal has no compass data - and started me wondering what other behaviors might be affected. Has anyone tested the dependence of TBE and j-hook on startup orientation?
 
sar104 said:
Has anyone tested the dependence of TBE and j-hook on startup orientation?
I've tried startup orientations of true northeast, east, west and south. I saw no difference where I am at almost 16 deg. positive declination.

I've also tried doing compass calibrations beginning pointing true north and beginning pointing the direction my startup orientation was going to be. The compass calibration instructions for the Blade 350 QX say to start out pointing north when you do it so I thought that might make a difference for the Phantom. It doesn't.

As near as I can tell, once the required 7 minute self calibration at the beginning of every flight is completed, my P2V+ flies straight with no hook or TBE, whatever direction it's pointed.

Point of reference: My 350 QX has never needed a compass calibration in 9 months. It's only necessary if you do something dumb that magnetizes the compass. According to one of Blade's engineers in another forum, the 350 QX calibrates to different locations by flying and comparing the compass to the GPS. Phantom does this too. The difference is that the 350 saves the data for the next flight.

Maybe there's a good reason the Naza system doesn't do that. Anybody know what it is?
 
ianwood said:
I don't know. I'll tell you tomorrow. But, it doesn't need to remember anything given that it flies straight pretty much right away. Look at the image you'll see it's even more straight then when I flew in Chicago.

As for Google Earth data, I take the raw CAN bus data files from the OSDII and parse them with an excessively complicated script I wrote. It outputs CSV of all the known data types and then KML for Google Earth. Working on a Dashware export as well.


Ok i follow ya, i use the flytrex which already gives me csv and kml exports of the data. i just wanna make pretty pics like you have lol
 
Dadcat said:
sar104 said:
Has anyone tested the dependence of TBE and j-hook on startup orientation?

Point of reference: My 350 QX has never needed a compass calibration in 9 months. It's only necessary if you do something dumb that magnetizes the compass. According to one of Blade's engineers in another forum, the 350 QX calibrates to different locations by flying and comparing the compass to the GPS. Phantom does this too. The difference is that the 350 saves the data for the next flight.

Maybe there's a good reason the Naza system doesn't do that. Anybody know what it is?


Very likely a dead Battery Backed RAM battery on the GPS board.

This would also cause the real time clock calibrations to be performed at the beginning of each flight, as well as almanac data being lost whenever the flight battery is not energized.

That data should be retained in the GPS module by the backup battery. If it is below 1.8v, it is not reliable to retain the data.
 
Dalite said:
Very likely a dead Battery Backed RAM battery on the GPS board.

This would also cause the real time clock calibrations to be performed at the beginning of each flight, as well as almanac data being lost whenever the flight battery is not energized.

That data should be retained in the GPS module by the backup battery. If it is below 1.8v, it is not reliable to retain the data.
That's enlightening.

I doubt this is the current version of the GPS board. Looks like a battery on the right hand edge of the board. Is that right?

a5888767-113-Naza%20M%20versions029.jpg


Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but could it be that we've all been shipped brand new Phantom 2s with dead GPS ram batteries and that's why we have a J-hook or TBE etc.?

Couldn't be that simple. Maybe I should be posting these questions in the "Other bad ideas" thread. People have been returning Phantoms to DJI for months for this problem and getting replacements that do the same thing.

Has somebody already tried changing the battery on the GPS board and found it doesn't do anything about the compass problem?
 
Dadcat said:
Dalite said:
Very likely a dead Battery Backed RAM battery on the GPS board.

This would also cause the real time clock calibrations to be performed at the beginning of each flight, as well as almanac data being lost whenever the flight battery is not energized.

That data should be retained in the GPS module by the backup battery. If it is below 1.8v, it is not reliable to retain the data.
That's enlightening.

I doubt this is the current version of the GPS board. Looks like a battery on the right hand edge of the board. Is that right?

Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but could it be that we've all been shipped brand new Phantom 2s with dead GPS ram batteries and that's why we have a J-hook or TBE etc.?

Couldn't be that simple. Maybe I should be posting these questions in the "Other bad ideas" thread. People have been returning Phantoms to DJI for months for this problem and getting replacements that do the same thing.

Has somebody already tried changing the battery on the GPS board and found it doesn't do anything about the compass problem?

I cannot say positively either way. Here is where I am on the subject...

When I got my first Phantom I was determined to find out things that could cause uncontrolled flight.

The first think I noticed was the longest cable went from the lowest point to the highest point, and it was attached to the compass on one end and the GPS board on the other. it was also multi conductor and a fairly effective antenna for induced interference.

In trying to find ways to introduce shielding. I fell back on the oldest trick in the book; which was twisting the cable. In doing so, I uncovered the GPS board and battery. Naturally, all batteries must be tested to see if they are good. Mine measured .025 VDC.

I wrote down the info from the GPS module and started doing some research. That is where I learned about the battery function. I was concerned that the TCXO ( temperature controlled Xtal oscillator) was drawing the battery down, as the conventional approach used to be to keep a crystal time base at a constant temperature to maintain the most accurate frequency synthesis. I contacted an engineering source familiar with the design, where I learned that the TCXO was used in maintaining the real time clock, and was not active when the main power was not available. But, the time calibrating the real time clock as the TCXO came up to temp was supposed to generate data stored in battery backed ram. So, it is possible that a dead battery requires total recalibration at every flight. It is also a possibility that GPS almanac data download further introduces delay, as it has to be downloaded each time. If the battery was above the minimum voltage, the calibration data would be present at power up to keep the RTC accurate from the get go, and the almanac data would be there to aid the GPS by taking the RTC info to determine which sats shoud be in view; a warm start situation.

All of this is no more than hypothesis on my part. I don't know is this is a proper answer to your questions, but maybe it will provide some useful hints.
 
BTW, the pic was the proper configuration of board and battery. Every one I have checked, or had others check so far has been below functional voltage. I have tried to discuss it with DJI customer support, but as long as a repaired phantom can ultimately capture 6 sats, the GPS board is considered good. Thar was the criteria they explained to me. AFIK, backup battery voltage is never a consideration. It is possible that I am missing something. I have checked voltage on 2 different Fluke multimeters - using the Millivolts range.
 
Guys, the issue appears to be in the firmware. The GPS subsystem is not the issue. There is a separate issue with the GPS battery on older P1s (not sure about P2) where the battery fails and as result it always cold boots because the almanac and ephemeris are lost each time it is powered down.

I've done 6 flights this weekend on the beta firmware which has the fix for the declination issue and it works. I probably won't be long before it is released to the public. For the filming I am doing, it is now much easy to do tracking shots. I've even started using course lock to do smooth quarter angle shots in GPS mode which I could never do before.
 
Dalite said:
Dadcat said:
Dalite said:
Very likely a dead Battery Backed RAM battery on the GPS board.

This would also cause the real time clock calibrations to be performed at the beginning of each flight, as well as almanac data being lost whenever the flight battery is not energized.

That data should be retained in the GPS module by the backup battery. If it is below 1.8v, it is not reliable to retain the data.
That's enlightening.

I doubt this is the current version of the GPS board. Looks like a battery on the right hand edge of the board. Is that right?

Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but could it be that we've all been shipped brand new Phantom 2s with dead GPS ram batteries and that's why we have a J-hook or TBE etc.?

Couldn't be that simple. Maybe I should be posting these questions in the "Other bad ideas" thread. People have been returning Phantoms to DJI for months for this problem and getting replacements that do the same thing.

Has somebody already tried changing the battery on the GPS board and found it doesn't do anything about the compass problem?

I cannot say positively either way. Here is where I am on the subject...

When I got my first Phantom I was determined to find out things that could cause uncontrolled flight.

The first think I noticed was the longest cable went from the lowest point to the highest point, and it was attached to the compass on one end and the GPS board on the other. it was also multi conductor and a fairly effective antenna for induced interference.

In trying to find ways to introduce shielding. I fell back on the oldest trick in the book; which was twisting the cable. In doing so, I uncovered the GPS board and battery. Naturally, all batteries must be tested to see if they are good. Mine measured .025 VDC.

I wrote down the info from the GPS module and started doing some research. That is where I learned about the battery function. I was concerned that the TCXO ( temperature controlled Xtal oscillator) was drawing the battery down, as the conventional approach used to be to keep a crystal time base at a constant temperature to maintain the most accurate frequency synthesis. I contacted an engineering source familiar with the design, where I learned that the TCXO was used in maintaining the real time clock, and was not active when the main power was not available. But, the time calibrating the real time clock as the TCXO came up to temp was supposed to generate data stored in battery backed ram. So, it is possible that a dead battery requires total recalibration at every flight. It is also a possibility that GPS almanac data download further introduces delay, as it has to be downloaded each time. If the battery was above the minimum voltage, the calibration data would be present at power up to keep the RTC accurate from the get go, and the almanac data would be there to aid the GPS by taking the RTC info to determine which sats shoud be in view; a warm start situation.

All of this is no more than hypothesis on my part. I don't know is this is a proper answer to your questions, but maybe it will provide some useful hints.

Dalite,

That is very interesting. I had not thought of that, and did not realize there was even a battery in there.

I am curious after testing the battery that you did not replace it if it was dead.

Tom
 
ianwood said:
I've done 6 flights this weekend on the beta firmware which has the fix for the declination issue and it works. I probably won't be long before it is released to the public. For the filming I am doing, it is now much easy to do tracking shots. I've even started using course lock to do smooth quarter angle shots in GPS mode which I could never do before.

Thank you, that's an excellent report.

On your first flight, last week, there was a short learning process going on at the start. Does that repeat with each power cycle?
 
Tom,

Replacement is beyond my abilities and utensils anymore. I just live with it and keep in mind that there will be a longer startup time, and a possible switch to manual if there is a GPS glitch that triggers restart during flight. I think that Seedler replaced his and regained faster Time to first fix (TTFF).

The general belief is that the hooking problem is limited to firmware issues, but I have always wondered if garbage in garbage out (GIGO) was also a factor.

If GPS accuracy has anything to do with time differentials, it would improve proportionally with the RTC recalibrations that are necessary at the beginning of each flight. If the calibration info was retained in BBRAM, the RTC would provide more accurate TDs at startup.

Perhaps just a coincidence...
 
Hi there, From NZ and am experiencing problems also.

my main problems are as soon as it lifts off it drifts left and starts moving away and in circles around me (am in normal flight mode and always calibrate the compass).
Ive had to purposely crash land it in order to not fly off into a tree or pond.

Im not sure about the hook yet as its new and Id just like to be able to get it hovering nicely first.

Am I experiencing what you are talking about?

This is my 2nd phantom as the v1 was prone to dropping out of the sky as it did when it met its end in the sea.

peter
 
Dadcat said:
ianwood said:
I've done 6 flights this weekend on the beta firmware which has the fix for the declination issue and it works. I probably won't be long before it is released to the public. For the filming I am doing, it is now much easy to do tracking shots. I've even started using course lock to do smooth quarter angle shots in GPS mode which I could never do before.

Thank you, that's an excellent report.

On your first flight, last week, there was a short learning process going on at the start. Does that repeat with each power cycle?

While you get to fly your phantom with the fix , others including me have to shelve our phantoms or fly with the j hooking and drifting. It's going on 3 months and no fix from DJI. As you have reported that the fix you and others tested has worked I'm hoping it's not another month or more for them to release it. I'm just so fed up with the support of DJI on fixing issues , the never do or they do and cause another issue. DJI just release 3.05 so all of us can see for ourselves the fix and if you need to tweak the firmware just do so after the release as you have done in the past.
 
paxpincer said:
Hi there, From NZ and am experiencing problems also.

my main problems are as soon as it lifts off it drifts left and starts moving away and in circles around me (am in normal flight mode and always calibrate the compass).
Ive had to purposely crash land it in order to not fly off into a tree or pond.

Im not sure about the hook yet as its new and Id just like to be able to get it hovering nicely first.

Am I experiencing what you are talking about?

This is my 2nd phantom as the v1 was prone to dropping out of the sky as it did when it met its end in the sea.

peter

Hi Peter. What part of NZ are you in?
Your description is exactly the TBE (toilet bowl effect). It's possible to control the drifting and circling with a bit of practice on the sticks, but DJI will very soon be releasing a new firmware which will solve the problem. So, you could either wait for that to happen, or persevere. Crash landing, not so good. That tends to break things. The trick on landing is that you want the Phantom to be still, and slowly descending, as opposed to circling or drifting. Small stick inputs is helpful.
 
ianwood said:
Guys, the issue appears to be in the firmware. The GPS subsystem is not the issue. There is a separate issue with the GPS battery on older P1s (not sure about P2) where the battery fails and as result it always cold boots because the almanac and ephemeris are lost each time it is powered down.

I've done 6 flights this weekend on the beta firmware which has the fix for the declination issue and it works. I probably won't be long before it is released to the public. For the filming I am doing, it is now much easy to do tracking shots. I've even started using course lock to do smooth quarter angle shots in GPS mode which I could never do before.

Ian, I can't thank you enough for your sustained and focused effort about this issue. Many would have given up, but you stayed the course. Now I get the benefits of your work. Thank you. :)
 
I too, look forward to the benefits of ianwood's hard work and relentless activity.

I can't take this drift anymore. It always takes multiple passes to get one that looks straight. :-/
 
ianwood said:
Guys, the issue appears to be in the firmware. The GPS subsystem is not the issue. There is a separate issue with the GPS battery on older P1s (not sure about P2) where the battery fails and as result it always cold boots because the almanac and ephemeris are lost each time it is powered down.

I've done 6 flights this weekend on the beta firmware which has the fix for the declination issue and it works. I probably won't be long before it is released to the public. For the filming I am doing, it is now much easy to do tracking shots. I've even started using course lock to do smooth quarter angle shots in GPS mode which I could never do before.


Ianwood, could you confirm if the beta firmware correct all the problems experimented in this thread :

1- Initial drift direction twice the magnetic declination
2- TBE
3- J hook when the froward stick is release

I'm still experimenting number 3 on my Phantom 1.1.1 and I'm quite sure that it's a separate issue than 1 & 2.

Maher
 

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