Does anyone else feel lost here?

[Peter Evans]

Seems to me that what Adam needs is help, not criticism.

Time and time again, help has been offered by folks who have been significant contributors here. They don't even get the courtesy of a response. Of course that's is completely Adam's decision, it is his forum to "run" as he sees fit. The notion that the more knowledgeable members may get frustrated and look elsewhere is evidently a risk he's willing to take.

I have done my bit here ...

For those who have been on board here for a while, they understand that Shrimpfarmer has contributed quite a bit to this forum. He certainly has earned the right to express his opinion ... much more so than any number of other posters who have offered little but taken much.

While this is the case I find it disrespectful that some one would start a thread like this, tell everyone he's done, point them to another sight only to find out he is one of the mods of the sight. Just my 2 cent.

Perhaps a reasonable perspective on the surface, however, Adam has pretty much set the tone here. Over time he has been offered help by several of the major contributors (read folks with help to give), has been beseeched by more than a few members for minimal(?) improvements, and has declined to provide even the courtesy of responding. That is also disrespectful. The forum is his and his alone, but it has become what it is because of its members ... some acknowledgement thereof is certainly warranted. As it has not been forthcoming, loyalty has not been earned, and it ought not be expected. Posters like Shrimpfarmer have had much to do with making it valuable, and so are entitled to having their say here.

As for myself, I will frequent both forums (and others) until one or the other no longer holds my interest ... such is the nature of "leisure time".

Ditto

 

[Shrimpfarmer]

As for myself, I will frequent both forums (and others) until one or the other no longer holds my interest ... such is the nature of "leisure time".

A sound strategy indeed

 

[Visioneer]

This is a seriously ironic thread. What's happening on this forum is what happens on every forum. It's how the internet works. Complaining about it makes you look like a noob who hasn't bothered to do any homework.

Hmmm ... that perspective is effectively conceding that change does not and will not ever take place on "every forum".

Actually PP is the only forum I'm on (presently 4) where requesting changes (i.e., "complaining") hasn't resulted in the owner/moderators addressing the issues and at least attempting some improvement.

 

[C-Mac13]

Perhaps a reasonable perspective on the surface, however, Adam has pretty much set the tone here. Over time he has been offered help by several of the major contributors (read folks with help to give), has been beseeched by more than a few members for minimal(?) improvements, and has declined to provide even the courtesy of responding. That is also disrespectful. The forum is his and his alone, but it has become what it is because of its members ... some acknowledgement thereof is certainly warranted. As it has not been forthcoming, loyalty has not been earned, and it ought not be expected. Posters like Shrimpfarmer have had much to do with making it valuable, and so are entitled to having their say here.

As for myself, I will frequent both forums (and others) until one or the other no longer holds my interest ... such is the nature of "leisure time".

Understand and can't say I disagree. At no time did I question his contributions to this forum. I was merely stating my option on starting a thread like this, telling everyone you've jumped ship, and than post a link to the forum your a mod on which looks to me more like a way to build membership. While some may not see it that way I did.

 

[Shrimpfarmer]

Understand and can't say I disagree. At no time did I question his contributions to this forum. I was merely stating my option on starting a thread like this, telling everyone you've jumped ship, and than post a link to the forum your a mod on which looks to me more like a way to build membership. While some may not see it that way I did.

I can fully understand how you and others would see it that way. This post went up before I was a mod and after I became aware of the new site. I have mentioned it several times before that though. I was not even one of the original creators who campaigned for the new place but I would have been had I known.

I have seen the same thing happen elsewhere and the improvement it brought was dramatic.

I made the post again today asking if there had been any progress, not because I thought there had been but to draw attention to the fact that despite everything that people had written it has once again been ignored. I have come to the conclusion that the forum is just a means to raise revenue from adverts based on the hard work of its members. Harsh but true in my opinion. At the last check there were over 1000 posts on this place without any answer at all. There not all bad posts either. Good ones have also fallen to the tidal wave of repeat posts every day.

I belong to another forum as well. I would say there are about 30 posts a day on that one and each one develops into an interesting thread. Quantity means nothing, quality is far more important.

If my little rant and awkward post stirs the owner in to fixing things then you will all benefit from that.

 

[C-Mac13]

I can fully understand how you and others would see it that way. This post went up before I was a mod and after I became aware of the new site. I have mentioned it several times before that though. I was not even one of the original creators who campaigned for the new place but I would have been had I known.

I have seen the same thing happen elsewhere and the improvement it brought was dramatic.

I made the post again today asking if there had been any progress, not because I thought there had been but to draw attention to the fact that despite everything that people had written it has once again been ignored. I have come to the conclusion that the forum is just a means to raise revenue from adverts based on the hard work of its members. Harsh but true in my opinion. At the last check there were over 1000 posts on this place without any answer at all. There not all bad posts either. Good ones have also fallen to the tidal wave of repeat posts every day.

I belong to another forum as well. I would say there are about 30 posts a day on that one and each one develops into an interesting thread. Quantity means nothing, quality is far more important.

If my little rant and awkward post stirs the owner in to fixing things then you will all benefit from that.

That makes since and I can see were your frustration is coming from. I said myself I don't look at every post anymore so I could have easily missed your early post in other threads about the site.
Cheers

 

[Eos630]

Really? How many other forums do you frequent that have NO moderatos, an admin who rarely visits a partially set up forum? :roll:

Yes really. Moderators and stickies don't force people to read or honestly do MUCH to control what people write.

To answer the question posed - No. I don't feel lost here. It feels exactly like every other internet forum I've ever seen. Never even noticed or cared about the lack of moderation, myself.

 

[Visioneer]

Understand and can't say I disagree. At no time did I question his contributions to this forum. I was merely stating my option on starting a thread like this, telling everyone you've jumped ship, and than post a link to the forum your a mod on which looks to me more like a way to build membership. While some may not see it that way I did.

And, again, not an unreasonable take ... but judging intent, particularly in a venue like this, is difficult. Though I don't know Shrimpfarmer other than through a few months of his posts, my take was that he was simply trying to find the least suspect way to let folks know that he's chosen to expend his efforts in another venue where he's more comfortable, a forum that might be of benefit to them - and that his intent was simply to help folks there as he's been doing here.

I'm not sure how else one would go about doing that.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Really? How many other forums do you frequent that have NO moderatos, an admin who rarely visits a partially set up forum? :roll:

Yes really. Moderators and stickies don't force people to read or honestly do MUCH to control what people write.

To answer the question posed - No. I don't feel lost here. It feels exactly like every other internet forum I've ever seen. Never even noticed or cared about the lack of moderation, myself.

I can only assume you are new to internet forums. Many internet forums use moderators to control the way the forums flow. They control what people write on forums by moderating said forums or by banning repeat offenders preventing them from making further post. This has proven to work very well on most forums. It is unfortunate there is no control here as to what is posted and where. Experienced people can see this clearly and have chosen to voice an opinion about it. And not for nothing, the other forum owner posted links here to it long before Shrimpfarmer made this thread.

 

[Pull_Up]

Just noticed this thread. Nice to see I get one of my catchphrases stolen AND get compared to a toddler's nappy in the first couple of pages... (And it's "pull up" as in the thing you need to do if your aircraft is plummeting groundwards, nothing to do with the training pants, thank you very much... Although if they want to sponsor me I'll take that call).

So, there have been eloquent arguments in all directions. First of all I have to say I have a lot of fondness for this forum. I think the "light touch" does contribute to a "down the pub" feel to the place which, when it works, is very sociable. The reactive moderation does leave us open to trolls - and goodness knows I've been on the receiving end of a few of those for sure. The forum search is inadequate. There are more duplicate threads or off topic threads than you can shake a stick at.

I've gone and had a look at the other place, and I've joined up there and I'll be very interested to see how it pans out. I like the software, it's very feature rich. There is a section for user blogging, a little like RCG, very useful for build projects or experiments with antennas, etc. The search is good, very good. The site owner and moderators appear to want to have a site that can be used as a primary information resource as well as a social forum and seem to have spent time developing systems, layouts and processes before opening it up to the world for new members. They have already changed a couple of things and added a couple of things in the short time I've been looking around - that seems to me to be a good start.

If I was back in the heady days of September 2013 looking for information on getting into quads of this class and looking for an RTF solution to get started, etc, would I have recommended pp.com to someone like me back then? Absolutely, and this is where I landed. Would I recommend it for someone in that position now? The banter's good, the people are (mostly) great, but... I've been away for two weeks. There are so many posts in my "unread" list I cannot possibly read through them all and stay sane (or indeed have time to feed the children) after just that time away, and that's just in News, General, Help and Vision. Imagine coming cold to the site, how do you filter all of the threads on here into stuff that can help you? There is so much good info on this site it has got to the stage where it NEEDS to be curated in order for it to still be useful to newcomers (probably got to that stage not long after the Vision launched, to be honest) and it must have an in-house search that works as a priority, I'd say. The new place is trying to do that from scratch, then grow organically. This place will need a lot of work to take what's already here and put it into a more ordered state. Yes, there are people (like me) who will answer newbie questions even if it's the 5th time that day, but there are also people who will jump on them for daring to ask another oft repeated question - seeing that as a new arrival, what do you do? Luck of the draw as to who reads your post first. There are no rules about that here or curators on this forum in terms of duplicate threads being moved, FAQs being compiled and maintained, sticky posts being highlighted, an area purely for beginners, etc.

I think there's almost certainly room for both forums (or fora, if you're a Classics pedant) - there's no need for mutual exclusivity, especially as one is looking to open up outside of DJI products. Do a quick Google search and you'll see quite how many boards there are out there in all languages dealing with multirotors of one or all sorts. Some will like it here, some will like it there, some will like it somewhere else and some, like me for now, will be around on both. I hope both sites flourish - but my concern is that this one is approaching a stage where it might need more proactive management than it's currently getting from our benign and absent dictator, bless him. The other site needs to attract users to take advantage of its structures and its proactive mods and admins - both sites have challenges and I hope they both overcome them.

'Cos, you know, it's good to have difference. Be very boring if it was all the same. Just sayin'.

 

[Shrimpfarmer]

Just noticed this thread. Nice to see I get one of my catchphrases stolen AND get compared to a toddler's nappy in the first couple of pages... (And it's "pull up" as in the thing you need to do if your aircraft is plummeting groundwards, nothing to do with the training pants, thank you very much... Although if they want to sponsor me I'll take that call).

So, there have been eloquent arguments in all directions. First of all I have to say I have a lot of fondness for this forum. I think the "light touch" does contribute to a "down the pub" feel to the place which, when it works, is very sociable. The reactive moderation does leave us open to trolls - and goodness knows I've been on the receiving end of a few of those for sure. The forum search is inadequate. There are more duplicate threads or off topic threads than you can shake a stick at.

I've gone and had a look at the other place, and I've joined up there and I'll be very interested to see how it pans out. I like the software, it's very feature rich. There is a section for user blogging, a little like RCG, very useful for build projects or experiments with antennas, etc. The search is good, very good. The site owner and moderators appear to want to have a site that can be used as a primary information resource as well as a social forum and seem to have spent time developing systems, layouts and processes before opening it up to the world for new members. They have already changed a couple of things and added a couple of things in the short time I've been looking around - that seems to me to be a good start.

If I was back in the heady days of September 2013 looking for information on getting into quads of this class and looking for an RTF solution to get started, etc, would I have recommended pp.com to someone like me back then? Absolutely, and this is where I landed. Would I recommend it for someone in that position now? The banter's good, the people are (mostly) great, but... I've been away for two weeks. There are so many posts in my "unread" list I cannot possibly read through them all and stay sane (or indeed have time to feed the children) after just that time away, and that's just in News, General, Help and Vision. Imagine coming cold to the site, how do you filter all of the threads on here into stuff that can help you? There is so much good info on this site it has got to the stage where it NEEDS to be curated in order for it to still be useful to newcomers (probably got to that stage not long after the Vision launched, to be honest) and it must have an in-house search that works as a priority, I'd say. The new place is trying to do that from scratch, then grow organically. This place will need a lot of work to take what's already here and put it into a more ordered state. Yes, there are people (like me) who will answer newbie questions even if it's the 5th time that day, but there are also people who will jump on them for daring to ask another oft repeated question - seeing that as a new arrival, what do you do? Luck of the draw as to who reads your post first. There are no rules about that here or curators on this forum in terms of duplicate threads being moved, FAQs being compiled and maintained, sticky posts being highlighted, an area purely for beginners, etc.

I think there's almost certainly room for both forums (or fora, if you're a Classics pedant) - there's no need for mutual exclusivity, especially as one is looking to open up outside of DJI products. Do a quick Google search and you'll see quite how many boards there are out there in all languages dealing with multirotors of one or all sorts. Some will like it here, some will like it there, some will like it somewhere else and some, like me for now, will be around on both. I hope both sites flourish - but my concern is that this one is approaching a stage where it might need more proactive management than it's currently getting from our benign and absent dictator, bless him. The other site needs to attract users to take advantage of its structures and its proactive mods and admins - both sites have challenges and I hope they both overcome them.

'Cos, you know, it's good to have difference. Be very boring if it was all the same. Just sayin'.

A very fair review in my opinion. Thanks for adding to the debate.

 

[GB Phantom]

This is a great site, glad i came across it seeing as I'm new to all this but it does need a mod and some sorting out. Most forums usually have a mod too keep things in order, this is most unusual that in the few weeks I've been here Adam must have had a death in the family!

 

[Eos630]

I can only assume you are new to internet forums... Experienced people can see this clearly...

My feeling about you was the same. But if you aren't new to internet forums, then this can't be the first time you've seen these issues pop up (i.e. new people asking the same questions, people not reading, canned responses that don't necessarily apply, the small pissing contest you and I are currently engaged in.)

You could have stickies on every sub and moderators who work 24/7 but it wouldn't solve anything of that. Best of luck, though. I kinda hate forums with stickies myself because they tend to pile up and add clutter. I like that I can get to these forums now and see right at the top of the page which is the newest thread. Six or seven stickies, each dozens of pages deep with all those 35,36,37,38... page markers. Eh, I don't really miss that.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

I can only assume you are new to internet forums... Experienced people can see this clearly...

My feeling about you was the same. But if you aren't new to internet forums, then this can't be the first time you've seen these issues pop up (i.e. new people asking the same questions, people not reading, canned responses that don't necessarily apply, the small pissing contest you and I are currently engaged in.)

You could have stickies on every sub and moderators who work 24/7 but it wouldn't solve anything of that. Best of luck, though. I kinda hate forums with stickies myself because they tend to pile up and add clutter. I like that I can get to these forums now and see right at the top of the page which is the newest thread. Six or seven stickies, each dozens of pages deep with all those 35,36,37,38... page markers. Eh, I don't really miss that.

I suppose we will have to agree to not agree on this one.

 

[Peter Evans]

'Cos, you know, it's good to have difference. Be very boring if it was all the same. Just sayin'.

You 'just said' well Simon

Vive la Différence!
Vive la République!
Vive la France!
Viva las Vegas

Sorry, I woke up feeling frivolous this morning. Maybe because I finally said goodbye to my Dronexpert RX100 mount yesterday afternoon, came home and immediately placed an order with Studiosport for some replacement kit. As it happens, I'm just off to search some other forums 'fora' solution to a question I have about PirateEye glasses.

Back on topic, I too now have a foot in both the camps under discussion here, and I'll probably register with a couple more. I even found myself on a German one yesterday where I came across a guy who had had a similar Dronexpert experience to mine (thank God that 'Google Translate' is only a click away!)

 

[ianwood]

I am staying put, at least for now. I am not a fan of the other forum and won't be signing up there now or ever. The admin showed his true colors by coming to this site and trying to poach users and then defended himself when called out on it. That says a lot about a man's judgement and the lack thereof. I have no idea why Adam won't respond to our messages about mods but at least he has demonstrated to be fair and even handed. Frank, or whatever his name is, I am not going to put my efforts under his authority.

If Adam for some reason continues to ignore our requests for mods, we may need to consider the options. And if that happens, I'd be happy to pool together with some others and talk about setting something else up. But it shouldn't be talked about here. Much like this other site shouldn't be mentioned here.

Unless it is relevant to some other Phantom based topic, bringing up the poacher's site even in passing is disrespectful and needs to stop ASAP. You may not like that Adam isn't receptive to our requests. I don't like it either. But suggesting it's better elsewhere, that doesn't fly.

 

[Shrimpfarmer]

I am staying put, at least for now. I am not a fan of the other forum and won't be signing up there now or ever. The admin showed his true colors by coming to this site and trying to poach users and then defended himself when called out on it. That says a lot about a man's judgement and the lack thereof. I have no idea why Adam won't respond to our messages about mods but at least he has demonstrated to be fair and even handed. Frank, or whatever his name is, I am not going to put my efforts under his authority.

If Adam for some reason continues to ignore our requests for mods, we may need to consider the options. And if that happens, I'd be happy to pool together with some others and talk about setting something else up. But it shouldn't be talked about here. Much like this other site shouldn't be mentioned here.

Unless it is relevant to some other Phantom based topic, bringing up the poacher's site even in passing is disrespectful and needs to stop ASAP. You may not like that Adam isn't receptive to our requests. I don't like it either. But suggesting it's better elsewhere, that doesn't fly.

Come on Ian, can't you see the irony in your post? Nobody should speak of any other place but because you have stated your never going to join that place your now speaking of a group of us coming together to set up another place. Just how are you proposing to talk to that group? Through the PM system? In open posts? Would I be welcome in your new place having supported Frank?

I would not blame you if you did. Loyalty breeds loyalty but it soon vanishes if its not returned. I have watched this happen on a different RC site. A plea for order and change, nothing happened and so a rival was born. There were flame wars and then everybody left and most joined the new forum. That place is still going stong.

Its time for a reality check because Adam is not responding.

 

[Bigbells]

I am accustomed to seeing people post in multiple forums and don't personally feel that any etiquette is violated when that happens.

I do wish that a small number of people were deputized to remove spam posts and spammers.

There must be something wrong with me.... I don't find this forum to be particularly disorganized. Perhaps that's because I frequent www.e-cigarette-forum.com

 

[xgeek]

There must be something wrong with me.... I don't find this forum to be particularly disorganized. Perhaps that's because I frequent http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com

LOL I hate that site. POTV is much more relaxed and easy going.

 

[Hiway]

I am staying put, at least for now. I am not a fan of the other forum and won't be signing up there now or ever. The admin showed his true colors by coming to this site and trying to poach users and then defended himself when called out on it. That says a lot about a man's judgement and the lack thereof. I have no idea why Adam won't respond to our messages about mods but at least he has demonstrated to be fair and even handed. Frank, or whatever his name is, I am not going to put my efforts under his authority.

If Adam for some reason continues to ignore our requests for mods, we may need to consider the options. And if that happens, I'd be happy to pool together with some others and talk about setting something else up. But it shouldn't be talked about here. Much like this other site shouldn't be mentioned here.

Unless it is relevant to some other Phantom based topic, bringing up the poacher's site even in passing is disrespectful and needs to stop ASAP. You may not like that Adam isn't receptive to our requests. I don't like it either. But suggesting it's better elsewhere, that doesn't fly.

Come on Ian, can't you see the irony in your post? Nobody should speak of any other place but because you have stated your never going to join that place your now speaking of a group of us coming together to set up another place. Just how are you proposing to talk to that group? Through the PM system? In open posts? Would I be welcome in your new place having supported Frank?

I would not blame you if you did. Loyalty breeds loyalty but it soon vanishes if its not returned. I have watched this happen on a different RC site. A plea for order and change, nothing happened and so a rival was born. There were flame wars and then everybody left and most joined the new forum. That place is still going stong.

Its time for a reality check because Adam is not responding.

I have lurked this thread... because I have felt the same as shrimpy for over a month or so. I quoted this particular exchange as I feel it pretty much sums up the general consensus from what I perceive as the most mature points being made- I respect Ian's loyalty, and that is a quality I have always held to be of the utmost importance in matters of life and friendships.

I lean in shrimpy's direction on this matter though, and that is after much thought (as free and chatty as I am, it should be noted that my usual opinionated diatribes have been missing here)

I look at this as a business venture- even if it isn't profit oriented. I have moderated and administrated forums before, and of many structures in how they were managed to a free for all like this, to a well oiled machine that was "invite only" and a participant's membership was at risk if they brought a troll or ******* onboard. or did not mentor the person through the protocol.

At the end of the day, any business needs to think about competition if they want to be viable- as does any forum or the like if they want to sustain their existence. Competition comes from 2 places: Unhappy customers, and unhappy employees.

I am pretty easy going- but the majority of the people that come in here use no common courtesy in how they approach forum use- it is akin to walking into a pub as was mentioned, but rather than respectful introductions and a look around to get to know the place- they barge in, shoulder up to the bar, and start hollering at the top of their voice if anybody can fix or advise on whatever their problem is... as if the place and people are here to service them and not as though it is a community. Manners account for a lot, and I have the distinct disadvantage of growing up in a country where we make a science of jingoistic types of mannerisms and speech... and I know all too well how off point that attitude is as I spend a minute on more than my tiny slice of the world when contemplating life.

I will not be continuing my frequent participation here... it is not worth the hassle or the trouble unless moderation, or manners show.