Still waiting on those Walkera 5200s

Wow... El G... that Y6 is tits on a ritz from here. I have done a little bit more reading, and with that setup you should be able to deal with much higher winds than the Phantom could begin to hope for- that config is supposed to far better in light to moderate wind conditions for stability and control. I would think it is also much easier to visually keep oriented due to the single arm out back.

Personally, I am considering dropping my plans for a 550 in favor of building something like this- what is the max AUW that rig is capable of carrying?

I want a higher grade 3 axis like a Z-15 and a much better camera (not decided yet) and vtx/mini ccd fpv cam- is this the only form factor or are there slightly larger options?

Run that thing through it's paces in some wind and tell me what you think... total honesty.
 
Hiway said:
I have done a little bit more reading, and with that setup you should be able to deal with much higher winds than the Phantom could begin to hope for- that config is supposed to far better in light to moderate wind conditions for stability and control.

Using a motor config like that is like putting all-terrain tires on your car/truck, you'll get a lot more "traction" (aerodynamically speaking) in all sorts of adverse "terrain" (i.e. wind) that would cause much more trouble for a similar airframe arrangement with just the upright motors....but at the cost of "fuel efficiency." ElG has the hard numbers on that effect on flight times, but that's the tradeoff you make for the stability (aside from co$t of course).
 
OI Photography said:
...
Using a motor config like that is like putting all-terrain tires on your car/truck, you'll get a lot more "traction" (aerodynamically speaking)....

Great analogy. I imagine the smaller footprint doesn't hurt matters either.
 
I like it, an all-terrain hex! From what I've seen, it's ~25% efficiency hit going from flat hex to coax. I may get a bit of it back from the smaller frame and lighter weight, but this config isn't going to set any world records. A flat hex of similar weight should be both faster and more energy efficient.

What I wanted was a smallish multi (I wish the arms were about an inch shorter) that had more lifting capacity than a Phantom (without going to big slow motors swinging huge props), and had a bit more redundancy. The 450 with e300 was a good size but inferior to the phantom in payload capacity so I had to add motors to get what I wanted. Between y6 and x8 I wanted a wider stance to try to keep props out of shots.

I'm guessing I can run about 1.1kg of payload including batteries for total auw of about 2100g. The goal is to max at around 350g per motor (equivalent of 1400g on a phantom).

So far, it's rock solid stable, and I can't give it a gain setting that overloads it. I haven't flown in wind yet, but I have given it some fast descents and it's amazing how it refuses to be unsettled. There is absolutely none of the wobbling and warbling the phantom goes through on fast descent, this thing just comes down fast and flat. Hopefully it'll make for a solid filming platform. I hope to get a decent 3-axis GoPro gimbal for it.
 
I suppose it won't carry the payload- but I want that performance profile... maybe I need to just reconsider my choices in cameras... they get smaller and better all of the time. I am not adverse to just staying with gopro for that matter- if it just weren't for the lack of zoom and audio mic input and the audio isn't a big deal.
 
Howzit said:
Any update on the Walkera flight times?

Sure. Test flight 3 was this morning. I wanted to see how long it would take to discharge down to 10.4v (which incidentally is currently my auto-land voltage, I would NEVER let any of my packs get near this low).
Level 1: 10.6v. Level 2: 10.v.

12.6v fully charged became 11.6v loaded.
Down to 11.0v 6:30 into flight.
10.8v at 8:30.
10.6v at 12:50.
First red (10.6) @ 13:30. Solid red at 15:15.
10.5 @ 16:20.
10.4 @ 18.30.
Landed @ 19:03 (still at 10.4v, no autoland triggered)

Immediate landing voltage: 3.65/3.70/3.70 (11.0)
5 minute resting voltage: 3.68/3.71/3.74 (11.1)

Landing at 10.4v loaded, and it recovers to 11.1? These batteries are strange. Again, I think these 10C packs on a Phantom are like a car with a 300mi range, but the gas gauge drops from Full to Empty by the time you pull out of the gas station, and you have to gauge your fuel remaining by watching the odometer.

I currently have the batteries set on discharge and see exactly how much juice is left until 3.0v/cell. That'll also let me charge up from empty and see the true capacity.
 
Yea, found your thread after I asked.

Very interesting results. I'm very curious on about your tests/results and how far we can safely push these batteries. Are you still leaning towards the Mad Dog being a 'better' battery?

Great work. Please keep us updated!
 
Thus far, I like the Maddogs better. They're 80g heavier, but provide longer flight and a more consistent, predictable discharge curve. They're a true, tested 5400.

It could be that the Walkeras discharge safely to 10.2v and will fly 25 minutes if you do, but I don't think I'm the one to test them that far. And I'm not sure I want to be 1km away at 10.8v, which is about 1/2 charge on these things. Maybe they'll be fine and others will be quite comfortable with this.
 
ElGuano said:
Thus far, I like the Maddogs better. They're 80g heavier, but provide longer flight and a more consistent, predictable discharge curve. They're a true, tested 5400.

It could be that the Walkeras discharge safely to 10.2v and will fly 25 minutes if you do, but I don't think I'm the one to test them that far. And I'm not sure I want to be 1km away at 10.8v, which is about 1/2 charge on these things. Maybe they'll be fine and others will be quite comfortable with this.

Is it possible that the aircraft Walkera designed these for have lower current draw, or some other significantly different discharge profile?
 
OI Photography said:
ElGuano said:
Thus far, I like the Maddogs better. They're 80g heavier, but provide longer flight and a more consistent, predictable discharge curve. They're a true, tested 5400.

It could be that the Walkeras discharge safely to 10.2v and will fly 25 minutes if you do, but I don't think I'm the one to test them that far. And I'm not sure I want to be 1km away at 10.8v, which is about 1/2 charge on these things. Maybe they'll be fine and others will be quite comfortable with this.

Is it possible that the aircraft Walkera designed these for have lower current draw, or some other significantly different discharge profile?

That's what I'm thinking as well. It's very possible a 1200g Phantom is overdrawing them, and at a lower load the discharge curve is more stable (that would be consistent with standard lipo behavior). That's why I want to run a parallel test with a second battery. The weight will be higher so there's a lot you can't compare, but I'll be able to see if a 20C rate changes the relative timing of hitting certain voltage milestones.
 
ELGuano... Are your tests based on just hovering in air for your times posted, or actual flying around & about with the throttle up, at times...?

Regarding the Maddog 5400's... I assume that battery is the 2 - 2700's you put together... Does it fit in the P2 Battery Compartment snugly in that configuration? Because I can't put them in the P2 compartment side by side, they don't fit parallel...

I also think you posted a "How To" step by step on how you converted the Maddog 2700's to 5400... I'm not sure if it was you. Can you post the link of the thread so I can check it out again if you did this?

Thanks!
 
PJA said:
ELGuano... Are your tests based on just hovering in air for your times posted, or actual flying around & about with the throttle up, at times...?

Regarding the Maddog 5400's... I assume that battery is the 2 - 2700's you put together... Does it fit in the P2 Battery Compartment snugly in that configuration? Because I can't put them in the P2 compartment side by side, they don't fit parallel...

I also think you posted a "How To" step by step on how you converted the Maddog 2700's to 5400... I'm not sure if it was you. Can you post the link of the thread so I can check it out again if you did this?

Thanks!

Just hovering outside. I'm not straining the battery or upping the draw rate, that can come later when I get a true baseline for constant current drain.

Correct on the Maddog 5400s. I don't know if it fits in the P2 compartment, but it just barely fits (perfectly, in fact) in the P1 battery bay, so it should fit in the P2 with a bit of carving of the plastic rails and/or battery connector standoffs. It's 55mm wide.
dTK27WL.jpg


My 5400mah mod how-to: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082830 It doesn't make the battery appreciably narrower though.
 
PJA said:
ELGuano... Are your tests based on just hovering in air for your times posted, or actual flying around & about with the throttle up, at times...?

Regarding the Maddog 5400's... I assume that battery is the 2 - 2700's you put together... Does it fit in the P2 Battery Compartment snugly in that configuration? Because I can't put them in the P2 compartment side by side, they don't fit parallel...

I also think you posted a "How To" step by step on how you converted the Maddog 2700's to 5400... I'm not sure if it was you. Can you post the link of the thread so I can check it out again if you did this?

Thanks!

After measuring them just now, I see that the ThunderPower 5400 I got is within 2mm of being exactly twice the width of the single maddog 2700. So with the internal trimming I did that allows the TP batt to fit in the bay, I could easily slide two maddog's in side-by-side it seems. Which I think I'm going to order a 2nd one to do exactly that, and compare the two options (1 TP 5400 vs 2 MD 2700). I'm guessing the paired maddog's will perform "close but not quite" when compared to ElGuano's morphed 5400, but I want to see by how much exactly.

I'm trying my best to finally do some test flights with my P1.5 today, the NAZA and motors all worked fine in the first power-on test last night, but now I can't get the %&%(# FrSky Rx to bind with my Tx...or vice versa, who knows. :x

By the way ElG, did you ever hear anything back from your contact @maddog or 2dogs re: them producing the 5400 you made? I seem to recall they said it sounded like a good idea, but nothing since..?
 
OI Photography said:
[
After measuring them just now, I see that the ThunderPower 5400 I got is within 2mm of being exactly twice the width of the single maddog 2700. So with the internal trimming I did that allows the TP batt to fit in the bay, I could easily slide two maddog's in side-by-side it seems. Which I think I'm going to order a 2nd one to do exactly that, and compare the two options (1 TP 5400 vs 2 MD 2700). I'm guessing the paired maddog's will perform "close but not quite" when compared to ElGuano's morphed 5400, but I want to see by how much exactly.

I'm trying my best to finally do some test flights with my P1.5 today, the NAZA and motors all worked fine in the first power-on test last night, but now I can't get the %&%(# FrSky Rx to bind with my Tx...or vice versa, who knows. :x

By the way ElG, did you ever hear anything back from your contact @maddog or 2dogs re: them producing the 5400 you made? I seem to recall they said it sounded like a good idea, but nothing since..?

I'd be interested in seeing the results of that test!

It wasn't me who asked Mark about producing 3S2Ps, maybe it was gen3benz?
 
OI Photography said:
After measuring them just now, I see that the ThunderPower 5400 I got is within 2mm of being exactly twice the width of the single maddog 2700. So with the internal trimming I did that allows the TP batt to fit in the bay, I could easily slide two maddog's in side-by-side it seems. Which I think I'm going to order a 2nd one to do exactly that, and compare the two options (1 TP 5400 vs 2 MD 2700).

I'm really trying not to carve anything out in the P2 compartment. I did set up the P1.5 conversion to include using my existing Lipos and the DJI P2 (overpriced) battery. I have a $50.00 gift card for Amazon and I could get a P2 battery for $109.00, shipped. I would also like to get a few affordable lipos like the Thunderbolt 5400 if they would fit without the surgery... I hope we soon find a few like that, as lipo technology advances... The guy at Maddog sounds like the perfect person to get to create a 5400 that would fit in the P2 compartment...

As for the Walkera 5200 battery... in my opinion... and please realize where I'm coming from. I don't know a fraction of the knowledge you and ELGuano and gen3benz have about lipo batteries, so by no means am I dissing any of my forum friends theories... However, I think it stands to reason that the Walkera Battery is made for the Walkera X350 Quad and tuned for it's circuitry... From what I know about our Phantoms, I haven't yet, but people on this forum said they topped speeds of 55mph in ATTi mode... I don't think you will ever get that kind of performance from a battery with a 10C rating when it's put through it's limits... At least from what I understand... Even if you put two together... I feel it was designed for the Walkera X350 Quad just as the DJI P2 Battery is designed for the P2 Quad...

I will now get off my soap box.... :cool:
 
The Walkera battery is definitely made with a small 350ish quad in mind. The thing is, it shares so many traits with the p2 battery- capacity, dimensions, weight, voltage sag...it stood to reason it would perform like the p2 battery. Looks like it doesn't really do so. I'm pretty disappointed too.

But I have my second one in now, so I can put the 10c theory to the test.
 
Mr Guano... I am having trouble sourcing some info and plans, part lists, and similar to build what you have here... basically I want to emulate you on this project you have shown... I want my very own brother.

Could you help me out? Fire off a parts list or maybe a link to get me going? My searches have ended in threads at RCG that I cannot find the info and people selling stuff... I want to build my own. I'm thinking wookong- but it will probably be naza v2 (although there are now some other options for flight control, I suspect the most support will be dji stuff)

All the coaxial Y6 frames I find are 650... this is smaller isn't it? If not, then you make it look tidy.
 
Hiway said:
Mr Guano... I am having trouble sourcing some info and plans, part lists, and similar to build what you have here... basically I want to emulate you on this project you have shown... I want my very own brother.

Could you help me out? Fire off a parts list or maybe a link to get me going? My searches have ended in threads at RCG that I cannot find the info and people selling stuff... I want to build my own. I'm thinking wookong- but it will probably be naza v2 (although there are now some other options for flight control, I suspect the most support will be dji stuff)

All the coaxial Y6 frames I find are 650... this is smaller isn't it? If not, then you make it look tidy.

Hey Hiway, I missed this post. Happy to help out. I have a parts list, but it's mostly cobbled together from stock F450 parts - arms, frames, motors, ESCs, etc. The frame itself is a modified F450 quad frame. I like the idea of having a smaller hex with more lift capacity than a quad :)

Speaking of cobbling together, this is the result of tonight's solder-and-code-fest. Programmable LEDs tied into the NAZA status LED:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GPdXcuUVXs[/youtube]
 
My Walkera finally arrived -- suffers a lot of voltage sag in a Phantom 1. It may have 5200mAH capacity but it doesn't do the same job as a PV 5200mAH battery.
My charger says it took 2700mAh to recharge it... From where I landed the P1 at 10.6V. So -- that fits with it having capacity but a lower C rating than a PV battery.

That's a shame...

Back to trying to find a battery equivalent to the PV battery!
 

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