Revoking 336 Hobby Rules

[GMack]

It would be simple matter for DJI, and other makers, to implement a "Hobbyist Flying Mode" as well as a "Pro (107) Flying Mode" in as much as they could control the flight distance of their gear. Much as they do with the need to log in to DJI to get beyond 100 feet, etc. Hobbyist could limited to maybe 500 feet and 100 feet in altitude (VLOS), with the "Pro Mode" unlocked to the radio's range (BVLOS) along with some extras like maybe within 1/2 mile of airport, etc.

FAA could inform DJI of who has a current 107 that could allow for the unlock. The 107 flying unlock could also be verified by the 107 operator's fingerprint or facial recognition as installed on many cellphones and tablets too. No verification means no GO 4 or RC radio transmission is switched back to "Hobbyist Flying Mode."

A bunch of flying tiers wouldn't work as the local cops who might be called to investigate would have no idea of an airborne drone or the operator's tier and they may have to intervene too much to find out.

 

[WV. Rootman]

This may sound like I am down. I try to think logically within my emotional human body.
Since the beginning of time people can not just govern themselves. It takes a strong arm to come in and force people into order. The strong arm then can do what ever it wants with a few butt kissers. We like to think there is a utopia. It hasn't and won't happen, because of human nature. Too long to list the evils the government has committed, like mass disease testing on the public or the mass shooting down WWW1 vets. Government is using technology and the media to control the masses.
For one, the day is coming when a drone is going to cause a bad happening. We know the media is going to jump on it. The masses is going to cry and the government is going to take more control in the name of order. We are not going to change the majority of people flying drones. Not that we should not try.
I live each day with a positive and a respectful attitude to those around me in trying to be an example in my flying.( I have a few off days.) lol I enjoy flying my P4 and take advantage of every moment I can. What happens, is going to happen. I care, but I really don't care because it will take it's course. I not going to worry about it. Continue to be an example. HAPPY FLYING!

 

[Dwilliams35]

This may sound like I am down. I try to think logically within my emotional human body.
Since the beginning of time people can not just govern themselves. It takes a strong arm to come in and force people into order. The strong arm then can do what ever it wants with a few butt kissers. We like to think there is a utopia. It hasn't and won't happen, because of human nature. Too long to list the evils the government has committed, like mass disease testing on the public or the mass shooting down WWW1 vets. Government is using technology and the media to control the masses.
For one, the day is coming when a drone is going to cause a bad happening. We know the media is going to jump on it. The masses is going to cry and the government is going to take more control in the name of order. We are not going to change the majority of people flying drones. Not that we should not try.
I live each day with a positive and a respectful attitude to those around me in trying to be an example in my flying.( I have a few off days.) lol I enjoy flying my P4 and take advantage of every moment I can. What happens, is going to happen. I care, but I really don't care because it will take it's course. I not going to worry about it. Continue to be an example. HAPPY FLYING!

At some point, we also need to just step back and reassess the risk here. How long have we had consumer level drones, eight or ten years? How many incidents have really happened? (I don't know, but as far as major ones, I can't really recall any...) Even manned aircraft considers a mile separation a "near miss" now. How many planes could fit between the two on a "near miss"?

We've gotten to the point where anything that has the possibility of flying two feet above the ground in somebody's backyard is considered a mortal threat to the national airspace system and our way of American life.. At what point do we just step back and say "Geez, dude; have some perspective here"? In 2015 they listed 770,000 drones thus far registered: that doesn't include non-registered drones up and flying, or anything bought in the last three years; (which we all know probably dwarfs that 770K) With all those in the air, surely we're bringing down a 757 a week, right?

Ain't happening. Is it probably GOING to happen? Sure. Just like it's GOING to happen that a bald eagle is going to get sucked into an engine and blow the wing off. (maybe): do we catch all the eagles and clip their flight feathers to keep them below 200 feet? We're not going to remove all risk from ANYTHING we do, and 99.999999999999 percent of the drones out there are flown in a manner that just simply isn't going to be a risk to "real" air traffic. Is it really worth the level of time, resources, and effort that we're attempting to put into regulation to stop an event that is spectacularly less probable than an aircraft fuel line cutting loose at the wrong time and the wrong place?. (hint: "If it saves just one life" is a cop-out for those who can't otherwise hope to justify it given the scientific and actuarial probabilities of the peril)

Is there a risk of a helicopter screwing around too close to the ground and just happening to occupy the same space as a drone that can't get out of the way fast enough? Sure. Helicopters also go down clipping trees, etc.: it's an inherently risky means of flight. We've just seem to have lost sight of the actual risk here, being consumed by the tragic nature of a named peril, however improbable it may be. We've become so enamored with regulation that we're completely blowing off common sense here. If you want an over-regulated society, then so be it; that's a valid opinion, however misguided it may be. I for one would rather the level of regulation we live under to actually reflect the valid risks it's trying to avoid, rather than just making a random list of random, statistically insignificant possibilities and making futile efforts at deleting all of them from the list.


Well, that oughta stir the safety gurus up...

 

[Dwilliams35]

A bunch of flying tiers wouldn't work as the local cops who might be called to investigate would have no idea of an airborne drone or the operator's tier and they may have to intervene too much to find out.

Are you saying the local cops have the slightest clue of the difference between the 336 and the 107 as it is? That's not their job. If you're flying like an idiot, he gives you a ticket and you and your lawyer can deal with whether you're licensed to be an idiot or not.

 

[N017RW]

LEOs will only deal with jurisdictional enforcement and verifying registration.
They are then asked to refer to the FAA a report of the complaint/incident who will then evaluate further.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/law_enforcement/media/FAA-UAS-DRONE-LE-ReferenceCard.pdf

 

[BigAl07]

Are you saying the local cops have the slightest clue of the difference between the 336 and the 107 as it is? That's not their job. If you're flying like an idiot, he gives you a ticket and you and your lawyer can deal with whether you're licensed to be an idiot or not.

I can't speak for LEO across the US but as far as here in my area they not only know the difference, they know how to look for it on your credentials. They know the difference between Hobby and Commercial Registration, know to ask if Hobby or Commercial flight, and depending on how you answer that one whether or not to ask for your NC DOT Drone credentials.

I would think that this is becoming more and more common across the country as more and more LEO are signing up for classes etc. These classes give them an overall picture of legal drone use in order to become educated on what to say, what to do, what to NOT do, and how to interact with "suspect" rogue Drone Operators. That's actually a big portion of our training and hands-on exercises.

 

[Dwilliams35]

I can't speak for LEO across the US but as far as here in my area they not only know the difference, they know how to look for it on your credentials. They know the difference between Hobby and Commercial Registration, know to ask if Hobby or Commercial flight, and depending on how you answer that one whether or not to ask for your NC DOT Drone credentials.

I would think that this is becoming more and more common across the country as more and more LEO are signing up for classes etc. These classes give them an overall picture of legal drone use in order to become educated on what to say, what to do, what to NOT do, and how to interact with "suspect" rogue Drone Operators. That's actually a big portion of our training and hands-on exercises.

Best I can tell around here, about the most you get is "so is that one of those drone things?"

 

[BigAl07]

Best I can tell around here, about the most you get is "so is that one of those drone things?"

We're all doomed LOL! If I heard an LEO say something like that I'd say, "Does your father know you're wearing his uniform?" LOL

 

[captainmilehigh]

What I find funny is that the FAA already came up with an acronym for their basic LE response enforcement card. “D.R.O.N.E.”

I guess they couldn’t come up with one for sUAS. [emoji30]

 

[RunningWithScissors]

I guess they couldn’t come up with one for sUAS.

Contrary to their usual approach in these matters, I guess they decided to follow K.I.S.S, although I don't know why they decided to start now.

 

[Wilbur]

And I wasn't suggesting that traditional RC pilots look down on those of us who choose a less traditonal path to take flight. All I'm saying is that, I understand if someone might have a "you're not worthy" view. I trust that's not the view of AMA as a whole because, as BigAl said, we're all pilots, regardless of which way our props point. Well, ok, I added that last part about the props. I was on a roll.

This should be printed on a tshirt!

 

[RunningWithScissors]

"Fixed wing, heli, or multi-rotor, we're all pilots, regardless of which way our props point."

Let me know if I left anyone out.

 

[oconnb]

At some point, we also need to just step back and reassess the risk here. How long have we had consumer level drones, eight or ten years? How many incidents have really happened? (I don't know, but as far as major ones, I can't really recall any...) Even manned aircraft considers a mile separation a "near miss" now. How many planes could fit between the two on a "near miss"?

We've gotten to the point where anything that has the possibility of flying two feet above the ground in somebody's backyard is considered a mortal threat to the national airspace system and our way of American life.. At what point do we just step back and say "Geez, dude; have some perspective here"? In 2015 they listed 770,000 drones thus far registered: that doesn't include non-registered drones up and flying, or anything bought in the last three years; (which we all know probably dwarfs that 770K) With all those in the air, surely we're bringing down a 757 a week, right?

Ain't happening. Is it probably GOING to happen? Sure. Just like it's GOING to happen that a bald eagle is going to get sucked into an engine and blow the wing off. (maybe): do we catch all the eagles and clip their flight feathers to keep them below 200 feet? We're not going to remove all risk from ANYTHING we do, and 99.999999999999 percent of the drones out there are flown in a manner that just simply isn't going to be a risk to "real" air traffic. Is it really worth the level of time, resources, and effort that we're attempting to put into regulation to stop an event that is spectacularly less probable than an aircraft fuel line cutting loose at the wrong time and the wrong place?. (hint: "If it saves just one life" is a cop-out for those who can't otherwise hope to justify it given the scientific and actuarial probabilities of the peril)

Is there a risk of a helicopter screwing around too close to the ground and just happening to occupy the same space as a drone that can't get out of the way fast enough? Sure. Helicopters also go down clipping trees, etc.: it's an inherently risky means of flight. We've just seem to have lost sight of the actual risk here, being consumed by the tragic nature of a named peril, however improbable it may be. We've become so enamored with regulation that we're completely blowing off common sense here. If you want an over-regulated society, then so be it; that's a valid opinion, however misguided it may be. I for one would rather the level of regulation we live under to actually reflect the valid risks it's trying to avoid, rather than just making a random list of random, statistically insignificant possibilities and making futile efforts at deleting all of them from the list.


Well, that oughta stir the safety gurus up...

Well done! And it is funny just as I was scrolling through here at the thought of birds and such cross my mind not that it hasn't in the past. But actually another thing just came to mind and that is the fact of just the simple name drone!
For some reason this word has taken on such a Negative form and I think there's probably some relation to the fact that drones are used in the military and of course they are baby killers and all that stuff. Perhaps we should consider not using the word drone for what we do. The public just goes crazy when they hear the word. I've seen it over and over again where people just roll their eyes when I let them know that flying a drone is something that I do.

 

[RunningWithScissors]

For some reason this word has taken on such a Negative form and I think there's probably some relation to the fact that drones are used in the military and of course they are baby killers and all that stuff. Perhaps we should consider not using the word drone for what we do. The public just goes crazy when they hear the word. I've seen it over and over again where people just roll their eyes when I let them know that flying a drone is something that I do.

Although the word "drone" is recognizeable by many people, I would agree with your assessment. I think military applications of "drones" in conflicts around the world likely have not been instrumental in promoting a positive image for our beloved flying machines. There are times, when talking to others about my Phantoms, I often scramble for a word other than "drone" that the average person would understand in a more positive light. I've decided to make a conscious effort to use the term "multi-rotor" instead of "drone" in the hopes of promoting a more positive image of our sport. Then again, that's just me.

 

[BigAl07]

For some reason this word has taken on such a Negative form and I think there's probably some relation to the fact that drones are used in the military and of course they are baby killers and all that stuff. Perhaps we should consider not using the word drone for what we do. The public just goes crazy when they hear the word. I've seen it over and over again where people just roll their eyes when I let them know that flying a drone is something that I do.

You're welcome to use whatever word(s) you like but you're spitting in the wind fighting that battle with John Q. Public. The media has turned that into an international Buzz-Word and there's no putting that cat back into the bag.

 

[oconnb]

You're welcome to use whatever word(s) you like but you're spitting in the wind fighting that battle with John Q. Public. The media has turned that into an international Buzz-Word and there's no putting that cat back into the bag.

Actually that is my point we need to start steering away from the actual word DRONE! UAV and all those are a much better choice! And when we have the serious discussions maybe we should be using the alternative words rather than DRONE!

 

[oconnb]

Are you aware that the definition of DRONE is something that makes a low humming sound? It is also an unmanned vehicle that delivers missiles according to Wikipedia and dictionary.com

 

[oconnb]

I do believe in the discussions of our crafts we should be using terms like quadcopter instead of drone. Unmanned air vehicle is okay but sort of sounds mysterious to the general public again. How about autonomous aerial vehicle. Aerial photography platform?
But even this is not good enough because there are still several different factions of this type of craft!
We have racing crafts that do fpv! We have little selfie cameras that fly. We have aerial photography vehicles we have do all kinds of cool things. But why do we need to call them drone? I don't think we have any missiles coming from any of these vehicles? Do we?
At present I believe our terminology of this is what is hurting us! We need to have a more positive spin on our Hobby and our craft and what they do!

 

[Dwilliams35]

Actually that is my point we need to start steering away from the actual word DRONE! UAV and all those are a much better choice! And when we have the serious discussions maybe we should be using the alternative words rather than DRONE!

I guess it’s just a regional issue, given the politics of the general population: around here, I don’t really see any negative connotation of note as you speak of. Even the military version is generally thought of on the positive side, as is about anything to do with the military.. As long as it’s on the right side, I guess. Not much talk of “baby killers” here unless you just watch the national news. Our birds have a more negative public view in most cases than the ones killing terrorists, due to the standard public privacy concerns, etc..

That being said, UAV, UAS, and sUAS sound like so much acronym claptrap for those “in the loop” of some certain technological arena. (Which, I guess, is exactly what they are). I don’t really see those catching on as you speak. “Autonomous” might be a good term to stay away from, given the current debate regarding the societal dangers of AI.

I’m still good with drone, barring something really exciting that comes down the pipe.

 

[barefootbeachcombing]

Actually that is my point we need to start steering away from the actual word DRONE! UAV and all those are a much better choice! And when we have the serious discussions maybe we should be using the alternative words rather than DRONE!

Right. But the point is that it's beyond the point of no return with the usage of the word drone. Nothing we do will get the public to understand quadcopter or UAV instead of drone.