Revoking 336 Hobby Rules
- Thread starter Philsmith76
- Start date
Agreed. All things considered, it likely takes far more skill to get a fixed-wing airborne and safely back on the ground without any autonomous control than it does to pilot a Phantom.
captainmilehigh
Premium Pilot
Agree 100% with that! My r/c flying as a kid was with the ‘ol control line aircraft. You know, fly around in circles for a few laps, then puke on your shoes. Oh, that was fun.
And maybe that's where the "bad blood", animosity, or resentment (if I can use those terms) creeps in. If you're a traditional RC pilot, you've got blood, sweat, and (likely) tears invested in getting your aircraft built and flying. There's more of a personal investment (sweat equity) in your craft than someone who drops $500+ on a craft, takes it out of the box, powers it up, and off it goes. I get that, and I guess I don't blame the fixed-wing guys if they see me as not worthy enough to share their field.
To exclude a fellow aviator (regardless of flight controller) is only hurting them. At the end of the day It's about the PERSON not the flight controller. The "Club" is about friendship and camaraderie and one of the reason I HIGHLY suggest we all get involved if possible.
Now if a MR operator can't abide by/follow the club rules (no flying over people, not flying low over neighbor houses etc) then I can see kicking them out of the club but just outright banning them.... that's just a shame.
And I wasn't suggesting that traditional RC pilots look down on those of us who choose a less traditonal path to take flight. All I'm saying is that, I understand if someone might have a "you're not worthy" view. I trust that's not the view of AMA as a whole because, as BigAl said, we're all pilots, regardless of which way our props point. Well, ok, I added that last part about the props. I was on a roll.
Turn off the controls and fly manual. There is always that option.
Or grab yourself a Bugs 3 (or similar). No GPS, just a complete manual flyer and pretty darn inexpensive. FAST AND RESPONSIVE... Plenty of skill needed to fly these...
I really don't blame AMA members being resistant to drones. The AMA is a long established governing body for model aviation going back to the 1930's. They have a history, traditions, and methods that are long established.
However, the fact that their rules are in significant conflict with FAA rules can not be overlooked. If their rules were more restrictive than the national rules it would be ok. But when their rules can be hidden behind, in order to violate FAA Regulations it is just a matter of time.
However, the fact that their rules are in significant conflict with FAA rules can not be overlooked. If their rules were more restrictive than the national rules it would be ok. But when their rules can be hidden behind, in order to violate FAA Regulations it is just a matter of time.
Yeah, but, if I wanted to do that, I'd take my Syma out and crash that a couple hundred times.
Yep. My point was... Just because it has GPS, etc... doesn’t mean the “fun factor of a manual R/C” can’t be obtained...
I"m in favor of this. I have co-workers who fly their drones and have NO idea about any of the 107 rules. I tell them about flying safely, and they just laugh. "As long as nobody catches me I'll be fine". Not a good way to look at it.
Wow. A lot of good points on this thread and clearly some division between 336 rule.
I was going to join the AMA because of the insurance and the weight they carry. Have to say I’m on the fence now. If you fly your MR in Atti mode would that be viewed as a “traditional pilot?”
I also have a non GPS helicopter that has to be flown manually will the AMA recognize that AC?
Sorry for the tangent I know this isn’t an AMA thread so back to the point....
Rather than revoking the rule completely maybe just amend it to include both the 107 pilots and the hobbiest pilot. And IF a license is required have a different “test” and a different license. My CDL class A is about three times the cost of a class C license plus I need a physical every two years. Between the two you’re looking at about $175 for my class A vs $36 for a class C. If the part 107 is $150 (like a CDL class A) can’t there be a shorter basic knowledge test and a (class C) type of license for the average pilot? Maybe a $25 fee? The money raised could very well go to good use if a percentage was put back into training, support, and education for future MR pilots. I’m just thinking that this doesn’t have to be a black and white situation. There is room for some grey area to give 107 pilots some more leeway and say (107b?) pilots some restrictions. Everyone main concern is safety and like it’s been said so many times in the thread most is because of poor education of the AC you have.
Example: 107 pilots could fly say 500’ , fly without VLOS (up to a mile and have an FAA approved strobe) and fly at night.
And 107b 400’ MUST retain VLOS, fly until dusk (as long as you have an FAA approved strobe)
Obviously these are just brainstorming ideas.
Just has to be a way we can ALL be safe, responsible and have fun. That’s what we’re all in this for anyway. We NEED to unite and be on the same page or we will all suffer if divided.
I was going to join the AMA because of the insurance and the weight they carry. Have to say I’m on the fence now. If you fly your MR in Atti mode would that be viewed as a “traditional pilot?”
I also have a non GPS helicopter that has to be flown manually will the AMA recognize that AC?
Sorry for the tangent I know this isn’t an AMA thread so back to the point....
Rather than revoking the rule completely maybe just amend it to include both the 107 pilots and the hobbiest pilot. And IF a license is required have a different “test” and a different license. My CDL class A is about three times the cost of a class C license plus I need a physical every two years. Between the two you’re looking at about $175 for my class A vs $36 for a class C. If the part 107 is $150 (like a CDL class A) can’t there be a shorter basic knowledge test and a (class C) type of license for the average pilot? Maybe a $25 fee? The money raised could very well go to good use if a percentage was put back into training, support, and education for future MR pilots. I’m just thinking that this doesn’t have to be a black and white situation. There is room for some grey area to give 107 pilots some more leeway and say (107b?) pilots some restrictions. Everyone main concern is safety and like it’s been said so many times in the thread most is because of poor education of the AC you have.
Example: 107 pilots could fly say 500’ , fly without VLOS (up to a mile and have an FAA approved strobe) and fly at night.
And 107b 400’ MUST retain VLOS, fly until dusk (as long as you have an FAA approved strobe)
Obviously these are just brainstorming ideas.
Just has to be a way we can ALL be safe, responsible and have fun. That’s what we’re all in this for anyway. We NEED to unite and be on the same page or we will all suffer if divided.
Not an AMA member (yet), however, my dad is and has been for some 60 years. He doesn't have any interest in owning a MR, but takes an interest and many of his flying buddies do. They welcome us multi-rotor pilots. According to him, the AMA is actively looking for us to join for the collective voice against the ever increasing government regulation.
I've been giving this some thought myself lately. Seems like a sensible approach. I think you just might be onto something with this.
Without really reviewing the thread more, that’s the first I’ve seen of anyone actually looking for solutions beyond “ground ‘em all”... that’s where we need to start. No matter how bad it hurts the feelings of the 107 holders, the cat’s out of the bag now. We’ve gone YEARS distributing Phantoms and the like to people to give to their 14 year old for Christmas. Even if the FAA were to recommend pulling the 336, you’d probably end up with so much congressional pushback when the word gets out to the soccer moms than they’re trying to take little Johnny’s toy away from him, that it’d probably be short lived or a non-starter entirely. I’m not sure of the actual numbers, but I’d say that it’s very likely that the number of people flying under 336 (or should be) absolutely dwarfs the 107’s. Such is the March of technology: The only thing keeping “normal” people from getting full commercial drones is essentially price point, and like I said, the cat’s out of the bag: They’re already out there, in use extensively, including a whole lot of usage for which 107 certification is an extraordinarily onerous proposition.
No matter what the “107 or nothing” says, there’s a lot of usage of these drones that poses zero threat to the NAS. Are they capable of flight that does? Of course. Do some idiots take advantage of those capabilities? Of course. However, we’ve reached a sad point in our history when we prosecute, regulate, license, etc. individuals for what they CAN do instead of what they actually do. Thoughtcrime is upon us.
There’s a lot of room between the “send in your registration and five bucks” and the current 107 for additional tiers of appropriate licensure. I’d guarantee that there would be a lot of people that take advantage of it, as well. Even the 107 level of money probably wouldn’t be a deal killer for many: that’s child’s play for people who don’t have a problem putting a couple of grand into a drone and accessories. There’s just too big of a “hop” between the two levels now, and it’s all the education/testing burden; not the cost. Hobby flyers aren’t going to do what they have to now to learn bank angle forces on a fixed wing UAS in order to fly their Phantom in the park. Would they spend an hour or two one night sipping a scotch and water on their iPad on the couch taking a $50 online course and test? You betcha. Would the NAS be safer as a result? You betcha on that as well.
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This is genius. I wonder why ideas like this are so elusive to the FAA. It seems to be an all or nothing process with them.
The future of drone laws, and the 336 model airplane rule, is in the hands of the hobbyist to make it or break it.. They will conform to safe flying or not.
I am confident that most will, and already are, flying safe and having fun. I am also confident that enough will not, to make things difficult for the survival of 336.
We all see what happens when someone does bad things with a gun. Just wait till one of our idiots really does do something incredibly stupid with a drone. The 336 rule will be gone in a New York minute as soon as the news reports that 336 pilots can violate FAA regulations by following AMA safety rules. Summer is coming.
I am confident that most will, and already are, flying safe and having fun. I am also confident that enough will not, to make things difficult for the survival of 336.
We all see what happens when someone does bad things with a gun. Just wait till one of our idiots really does do something incredibly stupid with a drone. The 336 rule will be gone in a New York minute as soon as the news reports that 336 pilots can violate FAA regulations by following AMA safety rules. Summer is coming.
I completely agree. It's only going to take one "Confirmed" incident to put the fuel on the fire.
It's in the hands of the entire consumer spectrum, not just the hobbyists.. Take a phantom-level, commercial or hobbyist level drone, and see what happens to its price and availability if you take the hobbyist market away. There's just not enough 107 demand out there to keep them on the market to a company like DJI. Pros using Phantom 4's are going to find themselves having to replace them with ten thousand dollar commercial drones in pretty short order: that's just the way things happen when you limit your sales base.
Government agencies being who and what they are, they're going to load up all the regulations they can get away with: it justifies their own existence and jobs, no matter what effect it has on safety, antiterrorism efforts, or whatever else excuse they can come up with.
If the commercial drone market wants to keep their toys, they'd better get on board with a more flexible solution than "nobody in the air without a 107", and if the hobbyist market wants to keep theirs, they'd better get on board with "act like a grownup"...
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