Refused clearance by an airport???

[fofun]

First of all, I respect your right to an opinion, but I don't appreciate your common sense pot shot. It seems that you are a person who believes the first thing that they are told and runs with it.

First of all, Helicopters as well as military aircraft have to file a flight plan as do all manned aircraft. By doing so, they have a designated path that they have to fly in. If they were to alter the flight path, they would have to have a very good reason in which to do so including flying below 500'.

If they were to fly below the 500 foot elevation, and land in your back yard where you were flying your quad, "Not Drone"they would be in violation and have stiff penalties filled against them. Not you for flying below your legal limit of 400' unless other stated in a law under the code of federal regulations a.k.a CFR.

So my question to you is how many helicopters or military aircraft have landed or even taken off in your back yards let's say in the past 20 years?

I don't even know you, but I bet I know the answer.

Im just trying to help some people to better understand the situation and not be bullied by fear and everything that they hear. The FAA cannot change any law unless it's done through CFR. They can try scare tactics that most politicians do that puts fear into naive people. They can also make recommendations.

If you live within a 5 mile radius of an airport that has been deemed a no fly zone, then you are screwed and have to go outside of the no fly zone to fly.

Guys, don't get all upset over nothing yet. I say yet. Fly responsibly, be respectful and don't do anything stupid and you will be fine. Don't ruin it for all of us.

And don't take pot shots at people who are trying to help you.

End of discussion.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[turbulence]

First of all, Helicopters as well as military aircraft have to file a flight plan as do all manned aircraft. By doing so, they have a designated path that they have to fly in. If they were to alter the flight path, they would have to have a very good reason in which to do so including flying below 500'.

Negative, that's only for IFR flight. You don't need to file a flight plan for VFR.

 

[Jschaudt]

I got my first refusal today when calling in to notify from 3.8 miles away from a small airport. ATC received the call, knowing it was for a hobbyist sec.336 from the first airport staffer that transferred the call. It was "Do we have your waiver 7711-1 on file?". I'm lost as to how to accomplish this when I basically need to file a FAA Section 333 Petition by researching prior documents. Half of the web links are dead from the section 333 petition guidance and checklist pages.

Things were much simpler by email with another local Airport. The manager informed me I am not approved, but he is not concerned by any flights in my neighborhood as I had described previously. He described the no-fly zones to me too. Wishful thinking for the ATC at the other field where executive jets land.

 

[Bad Andy]

Might be useful to know more details, i.e. which airport, where you wanted to fly near. Sounds like they either didn't know this was a hobbyist flight or just didn't want to deal with you. But that's pure conjecture. All of what you heard from them sounds outside the norms of Part 107 hobbyist flight.

 

[BigAl07]

First off welcome to the forum.

It honestly sounds like the full introduction from airport person #1 and you was not relayed to ATC correctly. It sounds like he was asking for your Part 107 Airspace Authorization/Waiver which you would not have (or need) as a hobbyist.

There is an issue with your reply:

I'm lost as to how to accomplish this when I basically need to file a FAA Section 333 Petition by researching prior documents. Half of the web links are dead from the section 333 petition guidance and checklist pages

For "normal" Commercial sUAS Flight the Section 333 Exemption is no longer being approved or renewed for those of us who already had one approved. Most everything you need/want to do commercially can now be accomplished by getting your Part 107 RPIC License. Items that can not be done under Part 107 which cannot be waived (there is a valid albeit very lengthy Waiver process in place for most of them) you would then need to research and apply for your Section 333 Exemption. The days of Copy & Pasting one that has already been approved are long since gone.

It sounds like you caught a grumpy airport manager unless he had a valid reason to deny the flight. Unless it explicitly causes a danger to the National Airspace System they are to merely acknowledge your phone call and suggest you fly safely.

Even a denial doesn't mean you "Can't" fly but flying against their wishes is most likely only going to get you some company from local authorities for local ordinances etc. Once you're on the FAA's radar (see what I did there) you're not going to be happy any more.

 

[BigAl07]

....... of Part 107 hobbyist flight.

I think that's a typo or missing some punctuation in there. No such thing as Part 107 hobbyist flight. One or the other.

 

[Jschaudt]

First off welcome to the forum.

It honestly sounds like the full introduction from airport person #1 and you was not relayed to ATC correctly. It sounds like he was asking for your Part 107 Airspace Authorization/Waiver which you would not have (or need) as a hobbyist.

Thank you for the greeting. I'm trying to fly around my workplace near KTME Houston Executive airport. I'm 3.8miles southwest, and never see their planes or helicopters overhead. It has been 10 years since I've seen a flight from the mostly dead dirt fields for the crop dusters around me.

Even a denial doesn't mean you "Can't" fly but flying against their wishes is most likely only going to get you some company from local authorities for local ordinances etc. Once you're on the FAA's radar (see what I did there) you're not going to be happy any more.

I'm thinking an email or an in person meeting will be needed. In the last hour of chasing this down, I too have found that section 333 is a deprecated system. If you can't get the only thing ATC is willing to have, then you are out of luck without educating the locals. I'm totally non-commercial and will be going for my 107 by year end. I may be overzealous for a beginner, but from my flight videos shared with friends, they just start asking me to do this and that for a few bucks. Of course I'm willing, just looking to do it correctly.

Having proper notification will help when the grumpy south border neighbor at work shoots me out of the sky. What can I say, I want to fly near work, and he hates everything that happens on our property. Even calling him to politely tell him his cows crossed the river to our property was more than he could handle.

 

[Cajuncontroller]

After reading most of the posts in here I thought I would bring a bit of clarification (I hope) to the conversation. First of let me state that I am an Air Traffic Controller working at a contract tower, (usually Class D airspace and a VFR Tower only), we follow FAA guidance and rules and our company applies any additional restrictions they feel necessary. I have over 25 years experience (military and civil towers), I am also a licensed private pilot with an instrument rating, and I am a licensed drone pilot.

As of this post the guidance we have received from the FAA is not to approve, but we can deny based on but not limited to traffic flow, density, and location of the drone flight. In class D airspace which is usually 4.5 to 5 miles from the geographical center of the airport and from the surface up to and including 2500' AGL. This reason that drone pilots must call when within 5 miles is because any aircraft operation within that airspace must have 2 way radio communication with the tower.

I have taken many calls in the last year and a half or so, and the guidance keeps changing and evolving. I have on 95% of all of those calls NOT denied flight, but on a few occasions I have had to say no because of location of the flight based on the traffic flow at the time of the flight. I can only speak for the controllers at the Tower I work at and say that we try to do everything possible not to deny the flight, but sometimes we have no choice.

I hope this helps.

 

[Aussie markD1969]

There are so many places to fly why even go there ? Just my 50 cents worth .

 

[njsarge]

Hi I am a new drone operator. I live on the outer edge of the 5 mile radius of a military airport. I have AirMap and use that to create a flight plan. Do i still have to call the tower? If so what do I say when calling?

 

[loktite]

Hi I am a new drone operator. I live on the outer edge of the 5 mile radius of a military airport. I have AirMap and use that to create a flight plan. Do i still have to call the tower? If so what do I say when calling?

Tell them your name, that you are giving notification you will be flying a model aircraft, give the location and time of flight, and contact information.

 

[njsarge]

Thanks by location do you mean gps coordinates?

 

[loktite]

Thanks by location do you mean gps coordinates?

While that would work, I'd be willing to bet most would be happy with cardinal direction, distance from airport, and cross street (if available) - such as 4.5 mile S-SW of airport center, near the intersection of Birch and Hollow Oak. Also would be a good idea to specify you will be flying in VLOS, and at an altitude less than XXX feet.

 

[sar104]

After reading most of the posts in here I thought I would bring a bit of clarification (I hope) to the conversation. First of let me state that I am an Air Traffic Controller working at a contract tower, (usually Class D airspace and a VFR Tower only), we follow FAA guidance and rules and our company applies any additional restrictions they feel necessary. I have over 25 years experience (military and civil towers), I am also a licensed private pilot with an instrument rating, and I am a licensed drone pilot.

As of this post the guidance we have received from the FAA is not to approve, but we can deny based on but not limited to traffic flow, density, and location of the drone flight. In class D airspace which is usually 4.5 to 5 miles from the geographical center of the airport and from the surface up to and including 2500' AGL. This reason that drone pilots must call when within 5 miles is because any aircraft operation within that airspace must have 2 way radio communication with the tower.

I have taken many calls in the last year and a half or so, and the guidance keeps changing and evolving. I have on 95% of all of those calls NOT denied flight, but on a few occasions I have had to say no because of location of the flight based on the traffic flow at the time of the flight. I can only speak for the controllers at the Tower I work at and say that we try to do everything possible not to deny the flight, but sometimes we have no choice.

I hope this helps.

Is JO 7200.23A the most recent guidance, or have there been any further communications on this topic?

 

[Jschaudt]

Thanks by location do you mean gps coordinates?

Distance and direction from ATC tower, or the runway is what I’ve given.

After reading most of the posts in here I thought I would bring a bit of clarification (I hope) to the conversation. First of let me state that I am an Air Traffic Controller working at a contract tower, (usually Class D airspace and a VFR Tower only), we follow FAA guidance and rules and our company applies any additional restrictions they feel necessary.

Good to hear from you. I think we can agree that the title of post is incorrect, which is why I have an agreed no-fly zone and “not-concerned” zone with one tower-less airport. There is no clearance, but when you are denied the chance to inform the tower, it just feels wrong. For me “7711-1 FAA form” not being on file doesn’t help. I stated to him my distance and direction and that I would be well under 400 feet. I tried to ask if there was a chance for hobbyist flight anywhere in the 5 mile, and I got the 7711-1 again.

FAA leaves it wide open for them to deny, but they do well to ask the airport to gather info. I was shocked to know he had only the one concern. FAA section 333 is all about “does it harm the public, or is in the greater good to waive restrictions”. I am not asking them to turn a blind eye. I want to be in contact and held liable if I exceed my welcome.

There are so many places to fly why even go there ? Just my 50 cents worth .

I live and work under 5 mile umbrellas. There is a gap between, but it is quickly becoming developed. Look up Katy TX west of Houston TX and you will see helipads everywhere. Dirt fields that are FAA registered are everywhere because we were a rice growing capital. Now there are homes surrounding those dead fields, but they still have their right to take-off and land there. Landowners will not give up on the grandfathered airspace.

 

[Nightwolf]

I personally know some High Speed Low Drag folks that would argue that although I'm certainly no Obama fan.

We have some areas that are defined from surface to 6000 ft. on NOTAM. for months at a time.

Thanks Obama

 

[D Greg]

Negative, that's only for IFR flight. You don't need to file a flight plan for VFR.

Helo's can just about fly anywhere at very low altitudes. I used to fly into Midway in Chicago at 500 ft from the south up Cicero Ave and didn't have to talk to anyone until 5 miles fro MDW.

 

[njsarge]

Thanks for all of the information.

 

[Cajuncontroller]

Is JO 7200.23A the most recent guidance, or have there been any further communications on this topic?

I will get back with you, I'm not at work today, but I can check just to be sure. Most of the guidance we get comes in the form of Read and Initial documents, also to be honest I don't recall the publication that covers UAS/UAV operations.

 

[Cajuncontroller]

Distance and direction from ATC tower, or the runway is what I’ve given.



Good to hear from you. I think we can agree that the title of post is incorrect, which is why I have an agreed no-fly zone and “not-concerned” zone with one tower-less airport. There is no clearance, but when you are denied the chance to inform the tower, it just feels wrong. For me “7711-1 FAA form” not being on file doesn’t help. I stated to him my distance and direction and that I would be well under 400 feet. I tried to ask if there was a chance for hobbyist flight anywhere in the 5 mile, and I got the 7711-1 again.

FAA leaves it wide open for them to deny, but they do well to ask the airport to gather info. I was shocked to know he had only the one concern. FAA section 333 is all about “does it harm the public, or is in the greater good to waive restrictions”. I am not asking them to turn a blind eye. I want to be in contact and held liable if I exceed my welcome.


I live and work under 5 mile umbrellas. There is a gap between, but it is quickly becoming developed. Look up Katy TX west of Houston TX and you will see helipads everywhere. Dirt fields that are FAA registered are everywhere because we were a rice growing capital. Now there are homes surrounding those dead fields, but they still have their right to take-off and land there. Landowners will not give up on the grandfathered airspace.

Most of my reference is to controlled airports and most of those will be in Class D airspace or higher. Non controlled airports are either Class E or G and there is no one to inform or call and therefore no one to deny. In those cases I would say use your best judgement. Any incident that involves a drone the drone operator will probably be found at fault.