RAW is processed, JPG is not

I did some testing today and found that if you have your P4pro camera set to D-Log the raw files come out looking better than the jpg files.
But if you set the camera to default values, you get the look that you expect.

I did try the first 3 profiles. Including None, D-Log and Cinelike. In all cases the result was the same. I will do further tests tomorrow.
 
I will do further tests because to be it doesn´t make sense. I understand what you are saying. In simpler terms is like if P4P is sugesting a starting point for the RAW file but the data and information still there and has not been modify. Even if that´s the case it shouldn´t be like that, regardless. A very dumb example would be: I buy a lolly pop and it comes full of sugar as a sugestion, if you don´t like it you can take it of hehehe

So what is the discussion about? That some people don't like the fully adjustable and none destructive preset that seems to be being pulled across from the Phantom?

Back to my Canon... if I apply a picture profile from the Canon default set on the camera. This data is embedded in the raw file and yes- it's pulled into ACR and therefore Lightroom and Photoshop etc. Yes. When I open the raw file it has overlayed that preset. Whether it be landscape, portrait or whatever. I can see this in the 'profile ' section of ACR as shown in my screen grabs the other day. At the moment ACR doesn't 'see' the colour profiles that the p4p has- so it doesn't know the dlog, cinema or whatever profiles you've set up for video or JPEG shooting.
It may or may not happen but ultimately it might not but it doesn't make any difference.

I guess Canon have more market share and this causes Adobe to implement and read the xml from the raw file enabling these 'default' profiles to be used in post processing.

However. Once again these profiles are just settings which can be removed. Or altered. It's just a starting point.

I don't see the value in comparing a JPEG sent from the camera which has a DJI designed profile
Set. Shooting anything as JPEG with whatever colour profile will be worse than using the DNG file. This is just normal.

It might be that DJI will work with Adobe etc to make their XML for their default colour profiles carry onto the DNG and then this thread won't have existed.

From what I keep reading someone is comparing a jpeg that's retained the baked in profile set in the DJI go app and the DNG file doesn't. Because the JPEG was shot with the DLOG profile folks are becoming confused the RAW looks different.

It does. Yes. But that's because the base level processing set by whoever decided it has made
It look that way. The actual digital file HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED its still I's and 0's! Nothing else.
 
I did try the first 3 profiles. Including None, D-Log and Cinelike. In all cases the result was the same. I will do further tests tomorrow.

What are you looking for? The **** colour profiles set in the app only affect the JPEG and video output. Why is this so hard to understand.

If there was a profile to make the image bright pink with green spots it STILL won't change the DNG file.

Never. Not at all. Ever ever.
 
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So what is the discussion about? That some people don't like the fully adjustable and none destructive preset that seems to be being pulled across from the Phantom?

Back to my Canon... if I apply a picture profile from the Canon default set on the camera. This data is embedded in the raw file and yes- it's pulled into ACR and therefore Lightroom and Photoshop etc. Yes. When I open the raw file it has overlayed that preset. Whether it be landscape, portrait or whatever. I can see this in the 'profile ' section of ACR as shown in my screen grabs the other day. At the moment ACR doesn't 'see' the colour profiles that the p4p has- so it doesn't know the dlog, cinema or whatever profiles you've set up for video or JPEG shooting.
It may or may not happen but ultimately it might not but it doesn't make any difference.

I guess Canon have more market share and this causes Adobe to implement and read the xml from the raw file enabling these 'default' profiles to be used in post processing.

However. Once again these profiles are just settings which can be removed. Or altered. It's just a starting point.

I don't see the value in comparing a JPEG sent from the camera which has a DJI designed profile
Set. Shooting anything as JPEG with whatever colour profile will be worse than using the DNG file. This is just normal.

It might be that DJI will work with Adobe etc to make their XML for their default colour profiles carry onto the DNG and then this thread won't have existed.

From what I keep reading someone is comparing a jpeg that's retained the baked in profile set in the DJI go app and the DNG file doesn't. Because the JPEG was shot with the DLOG profile folks are becoming confused the RAW looks different.

It does. Yes. But that's because the base level processing set by whoever decided it has made
It look that way. The actual digital file HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED its still I's and 0's! Nothing else.


I understand what you are saying. But let me ask you this: When you open a RAW image its has certain limit of what you can do with it. Of course is far greater than manipulating a JPG. BUt if the starting point is underexposed, then the range will be less. If the value it´s 0, shouldn´t look underexposed. You think it´s zero because the camera processed it and that reads at ZERO. It means that the new Zero is 2 steps underexposed
 
What are you looking for? The **** colour profiles set in the app only affect the JPEG and video output. Why is this so hard to understand.

If there was a profile to make the image bright pink with green spots it STILL won't change the DNG file.

Never. Not at all. Ever ever.


I don´t agree with you. It´s ok you don´t agree with me.
 
I understand what you are saying. But let me ask you this: When you open a RAW image its has certain limit of what you can do with it. Of course is far greater than manipulating a JPG. BUt if the starting point is underexposed, then the range will be less. If the value it´s 0, shouldn´t look underexposed. You think it´s zero because the camera processed it and that reads at ZERO. It means that the new Zero is 2 steps underexposed

Sorry. But if the shot is underexposed then it's been shot underexposed. Raw won't save bad photography or a bad exposure.


Ideally the initial image should be well exposed etc. Sure raw is a help but getting it right in camera is the best way forward. Exposing and shooting to the quirks of the camera is something we all should do.

Again - for example. My brand new 1dxii I feel overexposed a touch. So, I shoot at -1/3 EV pretty much all the time. That's my preference and from my experience with this camera it is better for editing.

My other cameras have other quirks. It's just taste.

Once again. Just disregard how the image looks when you open your editor. I am guessing that someone at DJI has decided that people want to see that tonality on the base DNG file. That's all.

HOWEVER. Make sure you capture the shot as best you can. That's what photography is about. That's why I learn more every day. Each shoot throws its challenges. There is not one size that suits all.
 
I will do further tests because to be it doesn´t make sense. I understand what you are saying. In simpler terms is like if P4P is sugesting a starting point for the RAW file but the data and information still there and has not been modify. Even if that´s the case it shouldn´t be like that, regardless. A very dumb example would be: I buy a lolly pop and it comes full of sugar as a sugestion, if you don´t like it you can take it of hehehe

Ricardo, I think what you're seeing (the default treatment of the DNG being underexposed, with a high contrast curve) may be partially due to ACR not yet having been updated with an actual profile for P4P. So it's relying on a default or perhaps misreading the metadata of the P4P DNGs, resulting in default settings that are off. The JPEG is not affected because its gamma curve is applied in camera -- ACR doesn't have to give it a gamma curve in order to display it.

Think of it this way. A DNG (raw) file is like a letter written in invisible ink. In order to read it, you have to apply a chemical to make the ink visible again. Depending on what chemical you apply, the ink might come out blue, or black. But this isn't a property of the ink -- it's a property of the chemical you're processing the letter with. In this analogy, ACR's default settings are the chemical you have to apply to the invisible ink letter in order to make it usable. But unlike in the letter example, you can change ACRs settings any way you want. To stretch the analogy further, a JPEG by comparison would be a letter written in regular ink, where the color of the ink (the gamma curve) is already fixed at the time the letter is written.

Until ACR is updated, you could tweak your default import settings for P4P DNG files to set -100 contrast and +1 or +2 exposure for example to have a flatter, more properly exposed starting point like you're used to for your other cameras. Assuming the underlying data hasn't actually been affected at the time it was recorded by the camera, this is an bit of an annoyance, but ultimately shouldn't impact the ultimate quality of the final processed image.

One other thing I've noticed, since the latest update that fixed DLOG -- in DLOG mode now, DJI GO suggests an exposure that's 2EV lower than the exposure it suggests if you have NONE/DCINELIKE/TRUECOLOR selected. So, if you're shooting in auto/aperture/shutter priority modes, the camera may indeed be underexposing. If you're shooting in manual mode, for the same fixed exposure which DJI reports as 0EV if in most color modes, switching to DLOG will show as +2EV. This is presumably because DLOG is trying to underexpose the scene to preserve the highlights and then lifting the shadows. I don't know if this affects the histogram display in addition to the EV display, but it might.

So you may want to avoid DLOG when shooting pictures, even if shooting DNGs, in case it is misleading about the proper exposure.
 
Last edited:
Sorry. But if the shot is underexposed then it's been shot underexposed. Raw won't save bad photography or a bad exposure.


Ideally the initial image should be well exposed etc. Sure raw is a help but getting it right in camera is the best way forward. Exposing and shooting to the quirks of the camera is something we all should do.

Again - for example. My brand new 1dxii I feel overexposed a touch. So, I shoot at -1/3 EV pretty much all the time. That's my preference and from my experience with this camera it is better for editing.

My other cameras have other quirks. It's just taste.

Once again. Just disregard how the image looks when you open your editor. I am guessing that someone at DJI has decided that people want to see that tonality on the base DNG file. That's all.

HOWEVER. Make sure you capture the shot as best you can. That's what photography is about. That's why I learn more every day. Each shoot throws its challenges. There is not one size that suits all.


Well for me where it doesn´t make sense is: Dji decided to apply some tonality to the DNG, but not to the JPG?

Sorry, for me thats, just wrong and does not make sense.

Is not an issue if I can fix it in post or not, or if I know how to expose or not. It´s a matter of it actually should be the other way around. DJI should apply a tonality to the JPG and not the DNG.

Anyways, this thread is getting pointless. I guess I´ll have to wait to see if they correct this in a upcoming firmware update and their "suggested" tonality applied to the RAW file then could be applied it to the JPG where it belongs
 
Ricardo, I think what you're seeing (the default treatment of the DNG being underexposed, with a high contrast curve) may be partially due to ACR not yet having been updated with an actual profile for P4P. So it's relying on a default or perhaps misreading the metadata of the P4P DNGs, resulting in default settings that are off. The JPEG is not affected because its gamma curve is applied in camera -- ACR doesn't have to give it a gamma curve in order to display it.

Think of it this way. A DNG (raw) file is like a letter written in invisible ink. In order to read it, you have to apply a chemical to make the ink visible again. Depending on what chemical you apply, the ink might come out blue, or black. But this isn't a property of the ink -- it's a property of the chemical you're processing the letter with. In this analogy, ACR's default settings are the chemical you have to apply to the invisible ink letter in order to make it usable. But unlike in the letter example, you can change ACRs settings any way you want. To stretch the analogy further, a JPEG by comparison would be a letter written in regular ink, where the color of the ink (the gamma curve) is already fixed at the time the letter is written.

Until ACR is updated, you could tweak your default import settings for P4P DNG files to set -100 contrast and +1 or +2 exposure for example to have a flatter, more properly exposed starting point like you're used to for your other cameras. Assuming the underlying data hasn't actually been affected at the time it was recorded by the camera, this is an bit of an annoyance, but ultimately shouldn't impact the ultimate quality of the final processed image.

One other thing I've noticed, since the latest update that fixed DLOG -- in DLOG mode now, DJI GO suggests an exposure that's 2EV lower than the exposure it suggests if you have NONE/DCINELIKE/TRUECOLOR selected. So, if you're shooting in auto/aperture/shutter priority modes, the camera may indeed be underexposing. If you're shooting in manual mode, for the same fixed exposure which DJI reports as 0EV if in most color modes, switching to DLOG will show as -2EV. This is presumably because DLOG is trying to underexpose the scene to preserve the highlights and then lifting the shadows. I don't know if this affects the histogram display in addition to the EV display, but it might.

So you may want to avoid DLOG when shooting pictures, even if shooting DNGs, in case it is misleading about the proper exposure.



Make sens what you are saying, but also when I try opening them in Lighroom is the same thing. I will do further test tomorrow and see how it goes.

What bothers me a lot is, OK, ACR is not updated and therefore doesn´t look the way it should. But then why JPG that should come out with some process apply to it, it comes out flat and without contrast, as the DNG should. Is like if the process or the lack of it would be inverse (bye mistake of DJI of course, which actually could be the case).
 
Well for me where it doesn´t make sense is: Dji decided to apply some tonality to the DNG, but not to the JPG?

Sorry, for me thats, just wrong and does not make sense.

Is not an issue if I can fix it in post or not, or if I know how to expose or not. It´s a matter of it actually should be the other way around. DJI should apply a tonality to the JPG and not the DNG.

Anyways, this thread is getting pointless. I guess I´ll have to wait to see if they correct this in a upcoming firmware update and their "suggested" tonality applied to the RAW file then could be applied it to the JPG where it belongs

No. They have not done anything. They just don't have the power that CaNikon and Sony/Fuji do when they work with Adobe or whoever to develop and implement default profiles which are embedded on import.


That's all it is. You can disagree but the raw file is raw. Does not matter if it imports into your computer in polka dots. The raw file is how the camera captured it.

Please. It's really not that complex. DJI is just not able to embed the 'neutral' profile into the raw file like other manufacturers do.

What it appears to be now is the end users laziness and inability to edit a photo. Nothing else.
 
Make sens what you are saying, but also when I try opening them in Lighroom is the same thing. I will do further test tomorrow and see how it goes.

What bothers me a lot is, OK, ACR is not updated and therefore doesn´t look the way it should. But then why JPG that should come out with some process apply to it, it comes out flat and without contrast, as the DNG should. Is like if the process or the lack of it would be inverse (bye mistake of DJI of course, which actually could be the case).

What is bothering you is the fact that your jpeg is using the colour setting you set in the app. Set the app to shoot in normal and the jpeg and raw will look the same.

I just don't understand why this is bothering you. Not one bit.
 
No. They have not done anything. They just don't have the power that CaNikon and Sony/Fuji do when they work with Adobe or whoever to develop and implement default profiles which are embedded on import.


That's all it is. You can disagree but the raw file is raw. Does not matter if it imports into your computer in polka dots. The raw file is how the camera captured it.

Please. It's really not that complex. DJI is just not able to embed the 'neutral' profile into the raw file like other manufacturers do.

What it appears to be now is the end users laziness and inability to edit a photo. Nothing else.


Believe me. I know how to retouch a photo. I do that for a living. It has nothing to do with laziness. I disagree with you. But thanks for your input anyways.
 
What is bothering you is the fact that your jpeg is using the colour setting you set in the app. Set the app to shoot in normal and the jpeg and raw will look the same.

I just don't understand why this is bothering you. Not one bit.

Lightroom. Photoshop they all use Adobe Camera Raw as its base processing. Even if you don't open ACR. LR uses this as a BASE level for processing. Good lord man. Just adjust the sliders. What is the issue?
 
What is bothering you is the fact that your jpeg is using the colour setting you set in the app. Set the app to shoot in normal and the jpeg and raw will look the same.

I just don't understand why this is bothering you. Not one bit.

If you don´t have a problem with your DNG and you love what you see in you P4P don´t understand why you keep answering and trying to convince me of something, at least to me, it´s clear and it´s wring.

I have tried it with different profiles and is the same. Again, thanks for your valuable input.
 
Believe me. I know how to retouch a photo. I do that for a living. It has nothing to do with laziness. I disagree with you. But thanks for your input anyways.

You can't and don't see the difference with an out of camera JPEG which as a baked in colour to a DNG file that has a default profile (that you don't like) but is NOT baked in. Just overlaid. Like a **** tablecloth.
 
You can't and don't see the difference with an out of camera JPEG which as a baked in colour to a DNG file that has a default profile (that you don't like) but is NOT baked in. Just overlaid. Like a **** tablecloth.

sure. whatever you say. Good luck to you.
 
If you don´t have a problem with your DNG and you love what you see in you P4P don´t understand why you keep answering and trying to convince me of something, at least to me, it´s clear and it´s wring.

I have tried it with different profiles and is the same. Again, thanks for your valuable input.

Once again. Repeat after me.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFILES.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFILES.


Set the **** profile to be +3 in every setting.
Raw file the same.
JPEG different.

Nothing will change that.
 
Good lord. Someone please explain this better? I don't get what is so difficult to understand.

It's very bizarre.
 
Once again. Repeat after me.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFILES.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFILES.


Set the **** profile to be +3 in every setting.
Raw file the same.
JPEG different.

Nothing will change that.


hehehe sure sure. Good night.
 
Well for me where it doesn´t make sense is: Dji decided to apply some tonality to the DNG, but not to the JPG?

Sorry, for me thats, just wrong and does not make sense.

Is not an issue if I can fix it in post or not, or if I know how to expose or not. It´s a matter of it actually should be the other way around. DJI should apply a tonality to the JPG and not the DNG.

Anyways, this thread is getting pointless. I guess I´ll have to wait to see if they correct this in a upcoming firmware update and their "suggested" tonality applied to the RAW file then could be applied it to the JPG where it belongs

What you're complaining about isn't caused by DJI, it's caused by Adobe Camera Raw's lack of specific profile for the Phantom 4 Pro. DJI isn't applying tonality to the DNG. Adobe Camera Raw is, when it debayers it. Adobe Camera Raw is the core RAW/DNG processing engine that is implemented and used by all Adobe products, including Lightroom and Photoshop.

Perhaps DJI and Adobe will work together to implement a profile, just like Adobe already has profiles for the Phantom 3.

Or you could try using a different Raw Converter, like DXO, Capture 1, Rawtherapee, etc... Perhaps they treat Phantom 4 Pro DNGs in a way that you prefer.
 

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