Question concerning airspace authrorization... which is correct, FAA UAS map site or Airmap?

[smiller]

With regard to fights withing controlled airspace, I've seen a few sites that direct me to the FCC UAS map site ( FAA UAS Data Delivery Service ) and the data there appears to provide maximum AGL altitudes in grid form for flights within class B/C/D airspace, and it all seems pretty clear. But sources such as Airmap still report 'Controlled airspace - ATC permission required' for any location within a 5-mile radius of any controlled airport facility, which of course is much more strict. Which is correct? Am I permitted to fly at or below the altitudes indicated in the FCC UAS map without notification/authorization, or... not?

Thanks

 

[mossphotography]

Airmap is not very good at keeping their data current.

And there are currently different rules for hobby vs. non-hobby.

All drone owners (in the US) now need permission to fly in controlled airspace. 107 Pilots use LAANC at the moment.

Hobbyists won't have access to LAANC until July 23rd. At that time they can use LAANC. Use a current (not Airmap) LAANC provider like Skyward, Kittyhawk, or UASidekick.

Airmap is falling behind the times when it comes to actual FAA hobby rules.

 

[smiller]

Yes, I should have specified that this is for hobbyist, non-107 ops.

OK, I think I have it now. Hobbyist flights still follow the old rules concerning ATC notification at present, and after July 23rd will have access to the LAANC system and should be able to obtain rapid approval to operate as indicated in the FCC ULS maps. Operation in non-LANNC areas will continue to require manual notification of ATC. Is that correct?

 

[dronesky]

Yes, I should have specified that this is for hobbyist, non-107 ops.

OK, I think I have it now. Hobbyist flights still follow the old rules concerning ATC notification at present, and after July 23rd will have access to the LAANC system and should be able to obtain rapid approval to operate as indicated in the FCC ULS maps. Is that correct?

No you cannot contact ATC now under hobbyist rules it is in limbo till July 23 only Part 107 pilots can fly in controlled airspace now

 

[smiller]

No you cannot contact ATC now under hobbyist rules it is in limbo till July 23 only Part 107 pilots can fly in controlled airspace now

Ah, 'limbo', a great place for flight regulations to be But yes, after further research I see that you are correct.

So after July 23rd, what would be required of a hobbyist to fly in airspace near an airport but not in a LANNC zone, such as within 5 miles of a smaller uncontrolled airport that is class G below 700' and has no LANNC? Will any authorization be required for these kinds of ops? Notify the 'airport operator' as before, or..?

 

[sar104]

Ah, 'limbo', a great place for flight regulations to be But yes, after further research I see that you are correct.

So after July 23rd, what would be required of a hobbyist to fly in airspace near an airport but not in a LANNC zone, such as within 5 miles of a smaller uncontrolled airport that is class G below 700' and has no LANNC? Will any authorization be required for these kinds of ops? Notify the 'airport operator' as before, or..?

I recommend that you read the applicable law and FAA guidance, but the answer to your specific question is that hobbyists will be (and are now) able to fly in Class G airspace. The proximity to an airport is irrelevant from a regulatory point of view (the same as the existing Part 107 rules), and puts the responsibility fully on the pilot to operate safely in that location.

 

[smiller]

I recommend that you read the applicable law and FAA guidance, but the answer to your specific question is that hobbyists will be (and are now) able to fly in Class G airspace. The proximity to an airport is irrelevant from a regulatory point of view (the same as the existing Part 107 rules), and puts the responsibility fully on the pilot to operate safely in that location.

Thank you. I have been inactive for a while and in trying to refresh myself am finding that the regulatory environment has changed significantly. I appreciate the commentary and links, they are helpful. I think I understand the overall framework now and will continue to educate myself. In spite of the changed procedures it looks as though maintaining compliance will actually be easier going forward.

 

[Shoot4fun]

Ok, along this same line, what about if you're inside a red circle? Have a farm rented near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri that I can't even make my bird spin a prop in. Are those off limits completely? I wouldn't think ATC could release the hold on my drone, could they?
Brad

 

[smiller]

Ok, along this same line, what about if you're inside a red circle? Have a farm rented near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri that I can't even make my bird spin a prop in. Are those off limits completely? I wouldn't think ATC could release the hold on my drone, could they?

You should be able to find out the reason for the restriction, you could be close to a government facility of some kind (there are also many reports of DJI georestrictions being unnecessarily broad in some cases so it's possible that you are not actually within the restricted area, not sure what the resolution for that would be.) In any event, assuming it's possible to get regulatory approval to fly there I don't think there's any connection between the FAA approval process and DJI's geo restrictions, so even if you obtain approval to fly in an area restricted by DJI geofencing I'd expect you'd still have to request a separate temporary authorization from DJI via their web site in order to to unlock their georestriction.

 

[BigAl07]

For the record nothing is final yet but IF they model the Hobby process after Part 107 (in regards to LAANC and non-LAANC facilities).... if you are wishing to fly in Controlled Airspace that is NOT currently offered in LAANC you would submit a request through the FAA DroneZone portal.

FAADroneZone

faadronezone.faa.gov

@Shoot4fun it sounds like your problem is getting DJI Authorization in that zone as opposed to getting FAA Clearance. If you're in a RESTRICTED ZONE you''ll need to submit to DJI that you have Approval (from the FAA) to fly in that area and request a Custom Unlock for your system. It CAN be done but takes time and several HOOPS to jump through.

DJI FlySafe

www.dji.com

 

[sar104]

Ok, along this same line, what about if you're inside a red circle? Have a farm rented near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri that I can't even make my bird spin a prop in. Are those off limits completely? I wouldn't think ATC could release the hold on my drone, could they?
Brad

Somewhere in here:

Which is DJI's rather strange implementation of this:

Of which only the non-continuous R-4501A is restricted from the surface up.

However, either way, if you are inside the DJI red restricted zone then that requires custom unlocking. If you are actually inside R-4501A then you probably won't get authorization.

 

[smiller]

Which is DJI's rather strange implementation of this:

A common issue with DJI's overly agressive geo restrictions.

 

[sar104]

A common issue with DJI's overly agressive geo restrictions.

Actually the new geo system is much better, and generally quite good. I think the complexity of the special use airspace in that particular area may have led them to give up and just draw a big red polygon.

 

[BigAl07]

Actually the new geo system is much better, and generally quite good. I think the complexity of the special use airspace in that particular area may have led them to give up and just draw a big red polygon.

^^^^ Nailed it! ! !

 

[Shoot4fun]

You should be able to find out the reason for the restriction, you could be close to a government facility

Yup. Less than 5 miles from the airstrip of a MAJOR Army base to this rented farm. And yes, its dji geofence keeping me grounded. If it were an easy process I might be interested in pursuing it, but sounds like it'll be more hassle than it's worth. It's just a corn field I'd like to be able to check. Thanks!

Brad

For the record nothing is final yet but IF they model the Hobby process after Part 107 (in regards to LAANC and non-LAANC facilities).... if you are wishing to fly in Controlled Airspace that is NOT currently offered in LAANC you would submit a request through the FAA DroneZone portal.

FAADroneZone

faadronezone.faa.gov

@Shoot4fun it sounds like your problem is getting DJI Authorization in that zone as opposed to getting FAA Clearance. If you're in a RESTRICTED ZONE you''ll need to submit to DJI that you have Approval (from the FAA) to fly in that area and request a Custom Unlock for your system. It CAN be done but takes time and several HOOPS to jump through.

http://[URL]https://www.dji.com/flysafe/custom-unlock

[/URL]

Thanks!
Brad

Somewhere in here:

View attachment 112514


Which is DJI's rather strange implementation of this:

View attachment 112516

Of which only the non-continuous R-4501A is restricted from the surface up.

However, either way, if you are inside the DJI red restricted zone then that requires custom unlocking. If you are actually inside R-4501A then you probably won't get authorization.

Yup. Just barely inside R-4501A. Just North of Cannon B MOA.

Thanks for the help
Brad

 

[smiller]

I think the complexity of the special use airspace in that particular area may have led them to give up and just draw a big red polygon.

Of course, that's the point. Maybe this kind of practice is less common lately which would certainly be good, but it doesn't help those affected. I do see how some sort of control is practical necessity but the implementation can still be quite frustrating at times.

 

[Shoot4fun]

Actually the new geo system is much better, and generally quite good. I think the complexity of the special use airspace in that particular area may have led them to give up and just draw a big red polygon.

And I get that. It is a very important installation. Chemical warfare school. MP school. Several other highly classified things... I wouldn't want anyone flying around it either. And the airfield is used for civilian aircraft as well.

 

[Shoot4fun]

So close, yet so far, far away...
Purple indicates farm location.

 

[Shoot4fun]

Thanks for all the help and info guys!

Brad

 

[sar104]

So close, yet so far, far away...
Purple indicates farm location.

Doesn't that put you up here:

That's nowhere near the restricted airspace, and just on the edge of the Class D: