New P4P just arrived

[lonewolf41]

My new P4P arrived yesterday. It is brand new (still sealed). I only paid $990 for it so I think I got a pretty good deal. I got all the batteries charged up last night, but before I fire it up, I have a couple questions.

First, I see lots of posts about firmware. I don't know what mine has yet as I have not turned it on. My understanding is that the latest firmware requires you to register with DJI to unlock the full potential of the drone. I am no conspiracy theorist, but I like to decide to whom and what information I give out. I usually don't register stuff I buy...especially if it can track me or what I am doing. I don't plan on doing anything illegal, I just like keeping my business, my business. Can I fly this thing without registering? What about if I have older firmware?

Secondly, if the DJI software requires you to register, is there other software that doesn't? I see Litchi mentioned quite a bit and thought that might be an answer, but I also don't want there to be some issue and have it blamed on the 3rd party software.

I guess I should find someone in rural Africa and find out how they do it without internet access.

Anyway, just wanted to get some information before firing it up for the first time so I know what to expect.

Thanks.

 

[msinger]

You must register your Phantom in DJI GO 4 before you can use it (for any firmware version). You won't be able to use any 3rd party software (e.g. Litchi) until you register it.

 

[Jack Matthias]

Where did you get it for $990 brand new?

 

[John Locke]

Yes, like msinger says, you must have a internet connection and register the drone with DJI before it will fly at all, with any software, even in Africa! You don't need to run the latest firmware to fly. After you turn it on you can see the version you have in ABOUT section of the Go4 app. If you're lucky enough to get 1.3.509 in the craft, if it was me, I'd leave it on that version to maximize flexibility down the road. However, if it's a later version, that's OK too, I just prefer 1.3.509 for added freedoms. And yes, DJI can track you everywhere you fly, and what you do too, with details for every flight you make if you sync your flights with DJI. This tracking issue is why most federal drone jobs (if not all) can no longer use DJI craft. Even some power companies have this policy, so I've heard. I think the feds are afraid of what China is doing with the information, rightfully so.

 

[John Locke]

Where did you get it for $990 brand new?

Yes, at that price I would be concerned the seller isn't an authorized DJI reseller, in which case there is no warranty. That's a high risk if there is no warranty. I think I've sent 3 out of 5 DJI craft in for warranty work/replacement.

 

[lonewolf41]

Thanks for the info. I will see what I have when I fire it up...although rethinking about keeping it now. I got it from an overstock/closeout company on ebay. Missed one for $940, but still saved $400 over anywhere else I could find. I reviewed the warranty and didn't see anything about only buying from specific companies. Can someone point that out, I apparently missed it.

I have 30 days to return it, but if they have a 60% failure rate, I probably ought to be looking at a different manufacturer. What would you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[John Locke]

I reviewed the warranty and didn't see anything about only buying from specific companies. Can someone point that out, I apparently missed it.

I have 30 days to return it....

DJI doesn't come out and say this in an obvious manner, but that's their policy. This changed a couple years ago. I find it difficult to easily find their list of authorized dealers, as they want to know where you live instead of providing a simple alphabetically organized list of U.S. authorized dealers. They make it almost impossible to verify a dealer by name alone.

Fyi, DJI is the best drone on the market by far. Nobody else has lightbridge, which sets them apart from everyone else as the undeniable technology leader. They do have warts though, and consistency in quality is one of those warts we all have to deal with. If you get a good one, they're great. If you don't get a good one you'll lose confidence, having to return it and wait for the repairs. That's why it's wise to buy from a dealer that will swap out the drone in the first 30 days quickly, in case you get one with a problem, new out of the box. And IMO it's essential to have that 1yr warranty, as these drones are very complex, things do go wrong sometimes.

 

[Meta4]

DJI can track you everywhere you fly, and what you do too, with details for every flight you make if you sync your flights with DJI.

The corollary is also true.
If you don't synch your flight data (upload to DJI), then DJI have no idea what you have done, where or when you have flown.

So what you really mean is ... DJI can't track you everywhere you fly, and what you do too, with details for every flight you make.
But you can choose to share the flight data after the event.
Far from being an ominous big brother thing, this can be extremely beneficial if you ever have a warranty issue.

 

[Meta4]

if they have a 60% failure rate, I probably ought to be looking at a different manufacturer. What would you recommend?

I've had six P3 and P4 series drones from DJI and they have all been perfect.
DJI does not have a 60% failure rate.
They would not still be in business if that was true.
But rather than being about to fail, DJI have more than 70% of the market for ready-to-fly drones with all the other manufacturers sharing what's left.
Top Industry Analyst Colin Snow: Who’s Leading the Drone Market?
DJI is running away with the drone market

It's hard to recommend anything else when none are even close to matching the features and performance.

 

[John Locke]

So what you really mean is ... DJI can't track you everywhere you fly, and what you do too, with details for every flight you make.
But you can choose to share the flight data after the event.

I'm not so sure about that. Some folks believe syncing may not be needed for DJI to see your every move, but I have no proof of that. It is kinda cool the history you can see from syncing, keeping track of flight time and how many miles you fly, longest flight, highest launch elevation etc, that is the key attraction to syncing occasionally. I don't mind since I have nothing to hide, but I do wonder about it.

 

[Meta4]

I'm not so sure about that. Some folks believe syncing may not be needed for DJI to see your every move

Some folks believe all kinds of things, and some of them are a long way from the truth.
Think about it.
Your Phantom and controller are only good for transmitting a couple of miles.
How is DJI ever going to tap into your transmission and get your flight data?
No-one is unless they are a determined hacker, know where and when you fly and are waiting there prepared to somehow get your data.
And really, that's just not happening.
People should exercise a little healthy skepticism rather than spreading alarmist rumours that just aren't credible.

 

[John Locke]

Your Phantom and controller are only good for transmitting a couple of miles.
How is DJI ever going to tap into your transmission and get your flight data?

My flight iPad is cellular, always connected to the internet for active map downloading. It's very possible DJI could secretly send data without me knowing it from the GO app, however I doubt it. But it's clearly possible if they wanted to, and I think that's exactly why the US army forbids DJI drones in any military property, training area, contract job or government operation. I believe they found a Trojan horse, or suspect one.

 

[Meta4]

My flight iPad is cellular, always connected to the internet for active map downloading. It's very possible DJI could secretly send data without me knowing it from the GO app, however I doubt it. But it's clearly possible if they wanted to, and I think that's exactly why the US army forbids DJI drones in any military property, training area, contract job or government operation. I believe they found a Trojan horse, or suspect one.

Why would DJI bother to try to siphon data from just the users that have cellular data on their devices and don't disable mobile data when they fly?
It would be pretty dumb to set up a system to just spy on people with cellular data enabled and flying where they have mobile coverage but ignore all the other flyers.
Anyone wanting to avoid such an improbable system could do so very easily.
The US Army thing was because of the (remote) possibility for a hacker to hijack a drones controls rather than spy on where drones are being flown.

DJI do not know where and when you fly unless you choose to share that info and that happens after the flight is completed.

 

[lonewolf41]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I will see if it works correctly...found the check list here (How to validate your new Phantom 4P. What to test for.) ...and if it does, I guess just use it. I find it hard to believe that they can require you to buy from an authorized distributor, but yet not include that in the warranty terms. That sounds like the most legally unenforceable policy I have ever heard of. The 30 days should give me time to check for infant mortality issues. I am $500 ahead so I guess that give me that much repair money.

I did find it interesting that there are people that sell on Amazon that are authorized dealers, but not Amazon itself...so you really need to be careful who you buy from on Amazon.

Thanks.

 

[John Locke]

Why would DJI bother to try to siphon data from just the users that have cellular data on their devices and don't disable mobile data when they fly?
It would be pretty dumb to set up a system to just spy on people with cellular data enabled and flying where they have mobile coverage but ignore all the other flyers.
Anyone wanting to avoid such an improbable system could do so very easily.
The US Army thing was because of the (remote) possibility for a hacker to hijack a drones controls rather than spy on where drones are being flown.

DJI do not know where and when you fly unless you choose to share that info and that happens after the flight is completed.

I agree, as I mentioned I doubt they are snooping. I'm just pointing out it's possible for DJI to snoop, as sophisticated of a system they have, and we'd never know it. It's a matter of trusting they don't, so everyone can have their own feeling about the ethics of a company in communist China. As for collecting "only cellular" flyers", I'm guessing over half the pilots are connected to the internet while flying to have maps download, maybe up to 75%, either through a hotspot on the phone, or with a cellular tablet device like me, but I may be wrong. I base that on how my friends fly, I think they all fly with active maps downloading, which helps to locate the bird in case of mishap.

This would be a good poll to find out the exposure:

How many fly with an active connection to the internet to download maps?

How many sync their flight data with DJI at least on a quarterly basis?

 

[Meta4]

I'm just pointing out it's possible for DJI to snoop, as sophisticated of a system they have, and we'd never know it. It's a matter of trusting they don't,

If DJI was causing Phantoms to "dial home" and send data over your mobile phone connection (and there's no good reason why they would) someone would have discovered the data traffic by now - but that hasn't happened.
The net is full of people making fanciful comments )just as in this thread) saying perhaps DJI do this ... or that ... .
But despite the prevalence of conspiracy theories, no-one has found evidence of Phantoms dialing home.

so everyone can have their own feeling about the ethics of a company in communist China.

What's that got to do with anything? (Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question).
You could query the ethics of any company - even those of a country that's strongly anti-communist but feels the need to eavesdrop on the phonecalls and emails of all their citizens.

 

[John Locke]

I'm just pointing out it's possible for DJI to snoop, as sophisticated of a system they have, and we'd never know it. It's a matter of trusting they don't, so everyone can have their own feeling about the ethics of a company in communist China.

What's that got to do with anything? (Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question).

I'm compelled to answer this, because it should be the root of the question in most people's minds.

China has a reputation for hacking into US computers, stealing technology secrets, there's no question about that fact, right? That shows intent and interest in snooping on Americans for gain. The Chinese government has free will to penetrate any business in their country if they so choose. It's not like the US where there are rights of the people, and rights for businesses, and freedom of the press. The government could easily walk into DJI and plant a government spy organization of unknown numbers with a spy mission, and DJI could not do anything about it. DJI would have to cooperate and stay quiet in fear of punishment. This is how a communist country works, as much as we Americans may be in disbelief. Although this may sound like extreme cynicism, this is easily in the realm of possibilities in China, do we agree? So this subject of snooping on DJI pilots has everything to do with how each American trusts the government of China, not the company DJI (a potential puppet), who may be worthy and ethical people building drones.

I personally don't care if they track me and my flights, as I'm not involved with anything of value to anyone from China, and if they did, it would be a waste of their time. So I sync with DJI, like thousands of other pilots, to track flight history. But there are others that do special work on US infrastructure or other sensitive areas, and they would be a good target for snooping. It would be very easy to sort through all flight records to determine who's doing special work in special areas, simply by doing a GPS location sort using DJI's monster database of volunteered flight records. This is why the US has curbed DJI hardware in US government operations, the risk is too high. Smart decision IMO.

This thread is getting off topic, sorry. I'm going to cease posting here. We can start another thread on this snooping subject if interested.

 

[Meta4]

I'm compelled to answer this, because it should be the root of the question in most people's minds..

Sorry but this is fanciful at best.
It's already been discussed to pieces in this and other forums.
Discussing on the basis of what you imagine might happen, especially with a large dose of xenophobia is a good way to convince yourself of very unlikely things.
I explained the US Army ban in post #13 above.

What you are suggesting would be the world's worst attempt to gain espionage if it was true.
DJI (or whatever evil entity controls them) set up a system that users can easily opt out of, and then troll through hundreds of thousands of flight logs to see if anyone might have been flying somewhere "interesting".
And then what? You've seen what info is contained in a flight record.
How would it be of value to see that someone had flown here and there at whatever height and then landed?
If you want to see something of real value, point your Google Earth to 43.904669° -69.811177° where you can see a couple of new Zumwalt class destroyers being made

 

[Slickvolt]

My new P4P arrived yesterday. It is brand new (still sealed). I only paid $990 for it so I think I got a pretty good deal. I got all the batteries charged up last night, but before I fire it up, I have a couple questions.

First, I see lots of posts about firmware. I don't know what mine has yet as I have not turned it on. My understanding is that the latest firmware requires you to register with DJI to unlock the full potential of the drone. I am no conspiracy theorist, but I like to decide to whom and what information I give out. I usually don't register stuff I buy...especially if it can track me or what I am doing. I don't plan on doing anything illegal, I just like keeping my business, my business. Can I fly this thing without registering? What about if I have older firmware?

Secondly, if the DJI software requires you to register, is there other software that doesn't? I see Litchi mentioned quite a bit and thought that might be an answer, but I also don't want there to be some issue and have it blamed on the 3rd party software.

I guess I should find someone in rural Africa and find out how they do it without internet access.

Anyway, just wanted to get some information before firing it up for the first time so I know what to expect.

Thanks.

<Whistling to self, eyes shifting every direction, while avoiding direct eye contact with anyone, twiddling my thumbs>

 

[Slickvolt]

Sorry but this is fanciful at best.
It's already been discussed to pieces in this and other forums.
Discussing on the basis of what you imagine might happen, especially with a large dose of xenophobia is a good way to convince yourself of very unlikely things.
I explained the US Army ban in post #13 above.

What you are suggesting would be the world's worst attempt to gain espionage if it was true.
DJI (or whatever evil entity controls them) set up a system that users can easily opt out of, and then troll through hundreds of thousands of flight logs to see if anyone might have been flying somewhere "interesting".
And then what? You've seen what info is contained in a flight record.
How would it be of value to see that someone had flown here and there at whatever height and then landed?
If you want to see something of real value, point your Google Earth to 43.904669° -69.811177° where you can see a couple of new Zumwalt class destroyers being made

LOL