New P4P crashed into a building - GPS and no VPS/OAS didn't work

smiller · May 3, 2017

MaxHam said:
See description under the video: "Tripod Mode is perfect for fine framing and indoor flying"
Hard for me to watch these videos. This guy gives me the kreeps ;-)

Yeah, don't know where they got him. But tripod mode does work well indoors without GPS, the Vision system holds position very precisely and you have 360-degree OA.

erlik-khan · May 7, 2017

left stick push left or right. I mean. If you were drifting towards a wall, just strafe opposite of it. I feel like that's a super basic move... am i wrong?
Sorry to hear about the crash, glad no one was under it when it fell.

bluesgeek · May 7, 2017

Real sorry to hear about your crash. Were you able to confirm it went into ATTI?

I did lose GPS in a similar situation in a small lot between tall buildings. It happened just as I was autolanding and was only a meter off the ground. I assumed a safe landing and looked away at my phone. Then I heard a sound coming from behind me as it had drifted about 5 meters and the props were clipping some branches off of a small bush. It was then that I remembered having a few moments earlier heard, "ATTI Mode."

If you didn't go into ATTI, is it possible that your GPS positioning became inaccurate (the bird thinks its somewhere it's not and aggressively flies in one direction to correct itself). I haven't had that happen, but it was a common problem with the 3DR Solo.

Real nice shooting and edit, BTW. What camera did you use?

GadgetGuy · May 8, 2017

MaxHam said:
Actually I think that all these safety systems/sensors make people feel so comfortable that even more crashes occur.
Before my first drone I saw this video and couldn't even imagine those drones can be crashed.
As fascinating as these promoting videos are they seduce the customer to try all kinds of crazy stuff not knowing the systems limitations.
(Not talking about you, Alex)

Similar to snowboarders and skiers wearing helmets thinking they were now invincible. According to ski patrol records, accident frequency actually increased when people wore helmets, because those wearing helmets skied more recklessly than those who weren't wearing helmets!

Meta4 · May 8, 2017

bluesgeek said:
If you didn't go into ATTI, is it possible that your GPS positioning became inaccurate (the bird thinks its somewhere it's not and aggressively flies in one direction to correct itself). I haven't had that happen, but it was a common problem with the 3DR Solo.

The Solo was noted for GPS problems but that's not an issue with the Phantom.
The GPS is very reliable

FlyByVideoPros · May 8, 2017

Was the building white? Or reflective glad? ...could have been a reason it did not sense obstacle.

GadgetGuy · May 8, 2017

From the above aerial included in your posted video, there is a possibility that there was insufficient light in between the buildings in the shade and immediately next to the building you crashed into, to support obstacle avoidance. I fly a lot after sunset, and frequently get a warning on screen (blocking my view!

) that there is insufficient light for obstacle avoidance, and to fly with caution (Duh!).

AlexSP · May 10, 2017

GadgetGuy said:
From the above aerial included in your posted video, there is a possibility that there was insufficient light in between the buildings in the shade and immediately next to the building you crashed into, to support obstacle avoidance. I fly a lot after sunset, and frequently get a warning on screen (blocking my view! ) that there is insufficient light for obstacle avoidance, and to fly with caution (Duh!).

Believe me there was more than enough light, it was a bright evening and even though I was between buildings and there was shades and all it was pretty clear. Certainly not dim nor dark. There's some PP effects (vignetting, etc.) applied maybe that's why it looks a bit darker, but there was no low-light warnings like I get when flying my Mavic or the P4P in such conditions, that much I'm sure

AlexSP · May 10, 2017

Thanks everyone for the support and insights, unfortunately the P4P is damaged beyond repair (just got confirmation) BUT lesson learned, it's just a drone and I've been offered a good discount from local DJI rep on a new P4P (pr P+) because he's taking the remnants of the aircraft, including the still-new RC

I'm keeping my MP and my other Phantoms to stay in the game, maybe a new P4P soon.

AlexSP · May 10, 2017

bluesgeek said:
Real sorry to hear about your crash. Were you able to confirm it went into ATTI?

I did lose GPS in a similar situation in a small lot between tall buildings. It happened just as I was autolanding and was only a meter off the ground. I assumed a safe landing and looked away at my phone. Then I heard a sound coming from behind me as it had drifted about 5 meters and the props were clipping some branches off of a small bush. It was then that I remembered having a few moments earlier heard, "ATTI Mode."

If you didn't go into ATTI, is it possible that your GPS positioning became inaccurate (the bird thinks its somewhere it's not and aggressively flies in one direction to correct itself). I haven't had that happen, but it was a common problem with the 3DR Solo.

Real nice shooting and edit, BTW. What camera did you use?

Thanks mate, I used an iPhone 6S and Oslo Mobile. It was a small production for lcal company making a campaign in social media. Yeah that's exactly what happened, a moment of distraction and it drifted to the building pretty quick. When I woke up to it and took measures it was already hitting the building and with the tip of the props hitting the wall it lost control and hit harder and crashed. If it was a tree I'm sure the outcome would have been different but there's no IF in life LOL.

GadgetGuy · May 11, 2017

AlexSP said:
Believe me there was more than enough light, it was a bright evening and even though I was between buildings and there was shades and all it was pretty clear. Certainly not dim nor dark. There's some PP effects (vignetting, etc.) applied maybe that's why it looks a bit darker, but there was no low-light warnings like I get when flying my Mavic or the P4P in such conditions, that much I'm sure

The illumination requirements for obstacle avoidance are more restrictive than you might think. It works best in daylight in direct sun. No matter how bright the evening, it's already marginal during the evening. If you check your ISO in the extracted .SRT file metadata, you might discover that lack of the necessary illumination was a contributing factor, and the aircraft may have crashed just before the warning would have been generated. Once it headed to the building it crashed into, after it switched into ATTI mode, it would get darker, as it flew towards the vertical building wall that had no ilumination from the sky above. Just something to consider on why obstacle avoidance failed.

AlexSP · May 11, 2017

GadgetGuy said:
The illumination requirements for obstacle avoidance are more restrictive than you might think. It works best in daylight in direct sun. No matter how bright the evening, it's already marginal during the evening. If you check your ISO in the extracted .SRT file metadata, you might discover that lack of the necessary illumination was a contributing factor, and the aircraft may have crashed just before the warning would have been generated. Once it headed to the building it crashed into, after it switched into ATTI mode, it would get darker, as it flew towards the vertical building wall that had no ilumination from the sky above. Just something to consider on why obstacle avoidance failed.

"It works best in daylight in direct sun" doesn't mean it won't work efficiently in other conditions. Yes I'm well aware of the limitations, so much aware I made clear I never, ever rely on OA intentionally regardless of the environment conditions. As I said before, that's different than expecting it to work exactly when you need, though I also made clear this crash was entirely my fault.

Along those lines, I don't pretend to judge perfectly these automated/authonomous flying systems and their workings and limitations. But I'm pretty confident the light conditions at the moment were more than enough for the OA to work - IF I was in Tripod or Beginner, which I believe now I wasn't. There is no "contributing factor", only the decisive one: my lack of attention for a couple of seconds. Incidentally, that's the only thing I can change - my behavior

My thoughts are that OA didn't work because I wasn't in Tripod, or some other failure (other than mine

). Not saying what, just that it can happen and I accept that. But certainly not for the lack of decent light, because I've experimented quite a bit on this with both my P4, my MP and the P4P to know at least that I was above the minimum requirements by a good margin, despite what the edited video might suggest.

marciano · May 11, 2017

I miss P1 and P2 Home Lock switch.
If you have an obstacle at left you could rapidly set HL and move the drone to the right no matter its orientation.

GadgetGuy · May 11, 2017

AlexSP said:
"It works best in daylight in direct sun" doesn't mean it won't work efficiently in other conditions. Yes I'm well aware of the limitations, so much aware I made clear I never, ever rely on OA intentionally regardless of the environment conditions. As I said before, that's different than expecting it to work exactly when you need, though I also made clear this crash was entirely my fault.

Along those lines, I don't pretend to judge perfectly these automated/authonomous flying systems and their workings and limitations. But I'm pretty confident the light conditions at the moment were more than enough for the OA to work - IF I was in Tripod or Beginner, which I believe now I wasn't. There is no "contributing factor", only the decisive one: my lack of attention for a couple of seconds. Incidentally, that's the only thing I can change - my behavior

My thoughts are that OA didn't work because I wasn't in Tripod, or some other failure (other than mine ). Not saying what, just that it can happen and I accept that. But certainly not for the lack of decent light, because I've experimented quite a bit on this with both my P4, my MP and the P4P to know at least that I was above the minimum requirements by a good margin, despite what the edited video might suggest.

I'll defer to your better knowledge of the circumstances. Hopefully others reading this will benefit from clarifying that these OA systems may help, but cannot be relied upon in all circumstances to prevent crashes. The side sensors aren't even active unless in Tripod Mode or Beginner Mode. I had one P4P "tree trimming incident" where the aircraft literally dove into the tree instead of orbiting around it. Whether it was due to the crooked camera (manufacturing defect--left by 5°), a sudden gust of wind, or a buggy OA system which was later updated (fixed issue where OA sometimes failed to work!), I'll never know. Once it was chopping leaves in the tree, the OA notified me of a problem! I backed away, and all was well! Aicraft covered in green cellulose juice afterward, and needed a sponge bath! Have a look!

bluesgeek · May 21, 2017

AlexSP said:
Thanks mate, I used an iPhone 6S and Oslo Mobile. It was a small production for lcal company making a campaign in social media. Yeah that's exactly what happened, a moment of distraction and it drifted to the building pretty quick. When I woke up to it and took measures it was already hitting the building and with the tip of the props hitting the wall it lost control and hit harder and crashed. If it was a tree I'm sure the outcome would have been different but there's no IF in life LOL.

Thank you for the info. **** good work!

I've taken to more ATTI practice again. Gotta stay fluid. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks about your experience every time we go up.