Lowering a P3 Down a Hole........

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Hi All,

Thanks for having me!

I have a PFCO (with an I1) and was recently asked to look into a job. The client wants to survey a deep vertical concrete shaft and thought a drone could be flown down. Obviously this isn't viable - but it got me thinking that a modified P3 might do the job. I don't own a P3 but am thinking of buying one and modifying it to try and solve this problem.

This is what I am thinking.....

Option 1. - Attach a steel cable to the top/middle of a P3 and winch down the shaft. Motors idling and props spinning. Would this work? Can the unit yaw whilst idling as I would need to capture film/photos around a 360deg pan?

Option 2 - As above but with no props attached. Legs removed to allow a 360deg pan from the gimbal only as per the I1? Does the gimbal pan 360deg?

I'm not sure if these 2 options are viable and any ideas would be gratefully received before I buy a P3 and start drilling holes in it!

Regards

SD242
 
Wouldn't it be safer/easier to buy a GoPro camera and attach it to a string? It seems like a much better tool for this job.
 
My guess is you can actually fly in that shaft if you use prop guards!
See two incidents I had with my P3 Standard. The prop guards safed the drone.
Even a harder kick (like into the rock near the waterfall) is being absorbed easily:
Click on this link, don't know how to rename it:
Ham Burger
 
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The answer to option 2 is no 360° pan with the P3.
 
I don't think flying it is an option even with prop guards. You'll get all kinds of funky turbulence created by the aircraft itself and it's possible the prop guards could snag/drag and cause gyrations which could get UGLY in a hurry. I'd try it in something like a Silo where you have access to the bottom should you need it.
 
Thanks for the replies. I need to be able to see what the camera is seeing from the surface and be able to control the pan. The shaft is 75m deep and there is no access to the bottom. Also the access is a 600mm manhole cover!

@sonof40 - so the camera wont pan on its gimbal? Therefore i'll need to rotate the craft instead, so im looking at option 1. Do you know if the craft can be rotated whilst on the ground so-to-speak? Or does it need to be airborne to do this?

Thanks!

SD242
 
If you do it manually (string/rope), the Phantom should be turned on but there's no need to start the motors.
 
I think doing this project with a drone is a non-starter for all sorts of reasons. The camera isn't the best in the world, certainly not in low-light conditions, so you'll need to strap on some lights as well, which is, of course, possible with a P3. Control could be very 'iffy' given that the 75m of the vertical shaft almost certainly includes steel rebar reinforcement. and yawing round and round accurately and consistently whilst moving upwards would be quite a difficult task, especially given the possible control and turbulence interference which might ensue.

So if flying it doesn't seem likely to be possible, yawing 360 degrees with just the gimbal isn't possible and control may be unpredictable, why go with a drone at all? msinger's suggestion of a Go-pro seems like a good one - but could still be fraught with possible problems.

I personally would have turned the job down - IMHO, a team of competent climbers armed with good quality cameras and lighting would be the way to go....

Good luck if you decide to run with it, nonetheless! :)
 
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IF you decide to go with a P3...

First, P3 has no YAW for camera. The aircraft, yes, not the gimbal. The gimbal does tilt.

Take the props off so they won't snag on anything. If you have prop guards, they might help keep it off the walls.

Make a yoke and attach each end to a motor shaft forming a upside down Y on each side of the P3. Then two strings/cables up from the yokes to the surface. Attach some spring clips to the ends of a dowel rod and clip the cables through them. THen control the yaw using the stick like a marionette. You can then control the gimbal's pitch so you can control two axis of movement that way.

Since weight is not an issue (ie, not flying) tape a couple high output flashlights to the landing gear of the P3, one facing ahead and one facing down. That should provide sufficient light for the inspection. Make sure to mount both behind the camera so you don't get glare on the lens. It also might help if you could mount a pair of red and green LEDs facing upwards so you can monitor the direction of the drone down in the hole in the event the suspension cables become twisted. Something simple as the LEDs you can get to put inside balloons and some duct tape would do.

Under normal flight conditions a battery lasts 15 to 20 min. Since no stress is used for motors, you got lots of run time. Probably hour or more easy. Its just powering the electronics so it should last a long time.
 
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I think doing this project with a drone is a non-starter for all sorts of reasons. The camera isn't the best in the world, certainly not in low-light conditions, so you'll need to strap on some lights as well, which is, of course, possible with a P3. Control could be very 'iffy' given that the 75m of the vertical shaft almost certainly includes steel rebar reinforcement. and yawing round and round accurately and consistently whilst moving upwards would be quite a difficult task, especially given the possible control and turbulence interference which might ensue.

So if flying it doesn't seem likely to be possible, yawing 360 degrees with just the gimbal isn't possible and control may be unpredictable, why go with a drone at all? msinger's suggestion of a Go-pro seems like a good one - but could still be fraught with possible problems.

I personally would have turned the job down - IMHO, a team of competent climbers armed with good quality cameras and lighting would be the way to go....

Good luck if you decide to run with it, nonetheless! :)

Cheers Steve. Haven't accepted the job but its been eating away at me as to the best way it could be performed. Apparently the end client wont send people down the shaft and looking at the market, there's nothing there to fill this gap at such a depth.
 
Cheers Steve. Haven't accepted the job but its been eating away at me as to the best way it could be performed. Apparently the end client wont send people down the shaft and looking at the market, there's nothing there to fill this gap at such a depth.

OK moving on from the climbers idea if it's not allowed, I feel that the bits of string method is going to be fairly uncontrollable by the time your 75 metres away from where it's being controlled.

My next idea: How about a 3-axis motorised gimbal + camera mounted on extendible lightweight rods, a bit like chimney sweeps use?

Rotational control would be pretty good and the upside is that it's easy to accurately gauge how much you are hauling the camera up each time because you could put marks on the rods as indicators. A simple clamp arrangement braced across the opening would take the strain and you'd unscrew and remove rods as the camera ascends.

Just another possible idea..... :)
 
Well, I just bought one of these....
4k-1.png


Its a 360 degree camera and its a bit bigger than a tennis ball. You don't need a gimbal or any mechanical means of moving it. Just lower it down the hole. Its shock proof, water proof and dust and dirt proof. Its got WiFi and bluetooth and 64g storage onboard so you can see what it sees and since it records 360, you can pan/tilt all you want after you haul it out of the hole and you can look all around while live streaming to your android/iOS device as well as snap photos while recording video. You will, of course, need a light source, but that should be fairly simple as a visit to the flashlight isle at walmart and a roll of duct tape.

I just bought one to put on the P3. Its got a standard 1/4-20 tap on its base. And it came with an adapter that will hook it to any gopro mount accessory.

Now either one on strings is gong to move around. But I am presuming that there is no wind down a 75m hole so I don't think its going to be an issue. However, go buy 20 sticks of 1/2" PVC and 20 male threaded couplings and 21 female threaded couplings and a cap. Attach a male and female to the ends of each pipe. Nip a couple inches off the last pipe before adding the threaded couplings to it. Attach the small stub you cut off to the last female. Drill a 1/4" hole in the top of the cap and drop a 1/4-20 hex bolt through and fill it with epoxy to secure it. Once it hardens, glue it to the other end of the stub.

Now you should have a very controllable PVC rig to lower in the hole. Thread the stub on the end of one pipe, attach the camera (or drone). Lower it 10' into the hole. Screw the next section of pipe on and lower another 10'. With 20 sticks, that gets you 200' of depth down. You should be able to easily hold and rotate the whole pipe. Reverse the process by unscrewing sections as you bring them out of the hole.

Just a couple ideas. Use what you feel good about.
 
Well, I just bought one of these....
4k-1.png


Its a 360 degree camera and its a bit bigger than a tennis ball. You don't need a gimbal or any mechanical means of moving it. Just lower it down the hole. Its shock proof, water proof and dust and dirt proof. Its got WiFi and bluetooth and 64g storage onboard so you can see what it sees and since it records 360, you can pan/tilt all you want after you haul it out of the hole and you can look all around while live streaming to your android/iOS device as well as snap photos while recording video. You will, of course, need a light source, but that should be fairly simple as a visit to the flashlight isle at walmart and a roll of duct tape.

I just bought one to put on the P3. Its got a standard 1/4-20 tap on its base. And it came with an adapter that will hook it to any gopro mount accessory.

Now either one on strings is gong to move around. But I am presuming that there is no wind down a 75m hole so I don't think its going to be an issue. However, go buy 20 sticks of 1/2" PVC and 20 male threaded couplings and 21 female threaded couplings and a cap. Attach a male and female to the ends of each pipe. Nip a couple inches off the last pipe before adding the threaded couplings to it. Attach the small stub you cut off to the last female. Drill a 1/4" hole in the top of the cap and drop a 1/4-20 hex bolt through and fill it with epoxy to secure it. Once it hardens, glue it to the other end of the stub.

Now you should have a very controllable PVC rig to lower in the hole. Thread the stub on the end of one pipe, attach the camera (or drone). Lower it 10' into the hole. Screw the next section of pipe on and lower another 10'. With 20 sticks, that gets you 200' of depth down. You should be able to easily hold and rotate the whole pipe. Reverse the process by unscrewing sections as you bring them out of the hole.

Just a couple ideas. Use what you feel good about.

Hey Wolfie, it gets you thinking this one doesn't it?!!

Was looking a carbon poles which weigh quite a bit once you get past 45feet or so, but didn't consider PVC piping. I think it would still be better mounted to a legless P2/3 as I would retain the 2.8ghz downlink. Im not sure that the inbuilt wifi or Bluetooth would have that range (does it?!). Also I then have a rig to fit CREE lights onto.
 
I don't know the range on it. Weather is making flying impossible (rain, sleet, snow, and hail all on the way to work this morning alone). The camera will record even when out of contact (just like the Phantom does). In fact you don't need a device, simply power it on and press the button once and it begins recording. You can then review the video after its out of the hole. And again, since its 360, you don't need to worry about looking in any direction during the descent or time at the bottom, you get ALL directions in the video and you can pan and zoom after the fact.

Here is a still I took the day I got it as a test. Its indoor with the lights off in a fairly dark room. Should be a good example of a worse case scenario.


It takes far better photos in a lighted environment.
 

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