Isn’t this 107 stuff complete overkill?

[dmcgrew]

I have had a ton of requests to fly a drone and get paid for it. I just cannot understand the need for this 107 thing. I looked at some of the studying sites and it looks like they’re all teaching me how to fly an airplane. What would I need that for? It’s like going to college for design and needing to take a music class. I’m sure this is just some old government BS but wouldn’t it make much more sense to have a test that basically says “Don’t do this. Don’t fly here. Don’t go this high. Do this. etc?” I mean we’re just flying drones, not a [Language Removed] airplane. I don’t need to learn about weather reports and radar garbage.

 

[BigAl07]

I have had a ton of requests to fly a drone and get paid for it. I just cannot understand the need for this 107 thing. I looked at some of the studying sites and it looks like they’re all teaching me how to fly an airplane. What would I need that for? It’s like going to college for design and needing to take a music class. I’m sure this is just some old government BS but wouldn’t it make much more sense to have a test that basically says “Don’t do this. Don’t fly here. Don’t go this high. Do this. etc?” I mean we’re just flying drones, not a [Language Removed] airplane. I don’t need to learn about weather reports and radar garbage.

They are teaching you how to integrate into the National Airspace System and how to do so SAFELY and efficiently.


What you're missing is that sUAS Commercial operations entail a LOT more than just Phantom flights for Real Estate. We've got to understand the pond has a lot more fish in it than just the ones we happen to be flying. If we are big boy enough to say we are "Commercial" then we are expected to be big boy enough to understand Aviation Law/Regulations and how to fly well within those regulations. Who knows you might get good enough to fly in a place that would mandate knowing more than just charging your batteries and putting a new SD Card in the slot.

One other thing you've not realized is that until Aug 2016 we DID have to have an actual Pilot's License to do this type of work. We literally had to go to Pilot School, SOLO in an airplane, and log the required hours for book time and AIR time in order to fly our sUAS commercially. For many this came to the tune of $10,000 or more. So spending a few hours studying then spending $150 for a test is really minuscule in the Real World.

Why in the world would flying a sUAS in the National Airspace System NOT require some rudimentary education and testing in Aviation Regs? Did you not take a driving test in order to get your state issued drivers license? Did they ask if you're going to drive a tiny Smart Car or a huge jacked up 4x4? No you took the test just like everyone else who will be driving in your classification of vehicles. Same with Part 107. If you were to decide to become a Commercial Driver you'd also be required to go back and get more driver training to get your CDL's.

Lastly, if you don't know about weather reports, how to read a sectional map, and how to do the myriad of other things "Aviation Related" exactly how can you be a safe, competent, and professional Aviator? You can NOT!

 

[GMack]

I somewhat agree with the OP. If these things become commonplace where the local drug store begins drug delivery, the 107 may be overkill if these become fully autonomous flight machines. Do we need a driver's license test for a self-driving car other than know how to program it to go wherever?

I've seen far too many aerials by local people in this town who have no 107 license and have photo studios, or are self-proclaimed drone video production outfits. The Western FAA had a local drone awareness and regulations class at the local Civil Air Patrol office and during the intro, we all learned who the licensed 107 guys were and the names I see attached to aerials are not them. I can also ask the local flight examiner who gives the 107 tests at the local flight school and find out they have no 107. Even the local fire department was flying late night flights looking for illegal fireworks sans a waiver which is also easy to check online. TV stations as well as local newspaper online is flying over crowds at events, etc. It really is out of control and much of it has to do with the insane requirements which also run into permits, insurance, months waiting for waivers for a fast occurring event, etc. To fly "legally" is a lot more work, money, and time so many skip it. Hollywood may be much to blame in California with the film commissioners who rake in daily commercial video permits which start at $660/day too.

Years ago we only needed to find a private pilot and an airplane to shoot something from the air. Then the FAA got into the "You need a commercial licensed pilot to do that" and it still goes on. FAA cannot control it from a distance and regulation should be left to the local tower and municipality as they are likely the ones who may not want drones in their backyard. It's a mess as it currently is, and much of the legality is at the local level who will be the first badge to appear to shut you down and not the FAA.

I don't know what the answer is, but current system is not working as I see it. Aside, CA just started this sideline Real ID Drivers License mess last Monday and I went through all that nonsense yesterday too which creates another layer of bureaucracy on the driver's license level so we have two CA driver's licenses for the time being. DMV guy said it was a paperwork nightmare, but it was federally mandated else no federal money so CA DMV had to institute it.

 

[BigAl07]

I personally don't think the current Part 107 is enough and wouldn't be surprised (actually welcome) to see a hands on flight review become part of it in the future. As Part 107 is now, a lot of it can be applied to "Hobby/Recreational" UAS flights if Congress had not stepped in and muddied the water in 2012.

 

[GMack]

I personally don't think the current Part 107 is enough and wouldn't be surprised (actually welcome) to see a hands on flight review become part of it in the future. As Part 107 is now, a lot of it can be applied to "Hobby/Recreational" UAS flights if Congress had not stepped in and muddied the water in 2012.

I still don't think it will help anymore than requiring people to drive with an auto license or even having mandated car insurance (Get hit out here in CA and good luck!). The sUAV system is a mess, and I agree that having the Hobbyist side of the equation isn't helping either. A FAA flight review, if ever required, better have something better working than the disconnecting hardware and/or software issues with my DJI gear too as I have little faith in it. I doubt it will make anyone more conscientious either as far too many violate the FAA regs as well as city ordinances on a daily basis around here, not to mention the local film commissioner's money grab if legally commercial. People will still fly free of the FAA and local regs. I'd almost bet any drone put up in L.A. for commercial use isn't fully legal if one looks.

There's also the logistics of doing some actual flight test or review in the field. The IACRA testing site here is at the airport at a flight school. It's in a DJI locked out zone as it is, and then dealing with the FAA regs about the operating radius around the airport's tower. You'd have to drive out into the country somewhere with an examiner, and on some good weather day, and the cost would be far in excess of the current $150 for the computer test at the center now.

Don't know what the answer is really. Could be the flight distance needs to be shorn down to VLOS only (<300 meters. Ceiling <100 meters. ???) so the perps can be found, but now your back to local level of enforcement too. Dunno.

 

[N42742]

One thing to remember: If all commercial drone operators had voluntarily stuck to Class G airspace, stayed below 400 feet, avoided Restricted/Prohibited Areas and TFRs, and stayed away from airports, the FAA would have never bothered with Part 107. The problems started when people thought they could safely fly pretty much anywhere at any altitude (the "big sky theory"). We brought this on ourselves.

 

[BigAl07]

One thing to remember: If all commercial drone operators had voluntarily stuck to Class G airspace, stayed below 400 feet, avoided Restricted/Prohibited Areas and TFRs, and stayed away from airports, the FAA would have never bothered with Part 107. The problems started when people thought they could safely fly pretty much anywhere at any altitude (the "big sky theory"). We brought this on ourselves.

And it's still "epidemic" in our country.

 

[N017RW]

One thing to remember: If all commercial drone operators had voluntarily stuck to Class G airspace, stayed below 400 feet, avoided Restricted/Prohibited Areas and TFRs, and stayed away from airports, the FAA would have never bothered with Part 107.

How do you know that as fact?
I find such dubious but will yield to a citing or other substantiation.

Hobbyists were 'protected' by Congress in 2012 (thank the AMA???) but there were no regulations for other sUAS operations.

 

[N42742]

You got me there, N017RW. I don't know this as fact. I just know that government frequently works in a reactive fashion. They wait until there's a problem, then develop regulation to mitigate it.

 

[N017RW]

You got me there, N017RW. I don't know this as fact. I just know that government frequently works in a reactive fashion. They wait until there's a problem, then develop regulation to mitigate it.

Not trying to get u or anyone. Reckless behavior by the masses doesn’t help but to say it is the precipitator is hard for me to accept.

 

[KAOS Imagery]

I am currently taking a study course for the 107 and my first impression was that it did seem overkill, the amount of information the FAA wants you to know to fly your little drone. But then I realized what Big AL touched on, part 107 includes flying drones that can be considerably larger than the Phantom or even Inspire. If the small UAVs might do damage to plane, what about a 30 lb UAV or bigger? Maybe there needs to be more size classes with different certification levels, but that makes things more complicated than the one course fits all concept.

In any event, in my opinion, more education is better for us all, both commercial and hobbyist. The wife and I took a walk across frozen Lake George (NY) the other day to see how the ice fishermen were doing. In 10 minutes out there, we got buzzed by a Mavic then a Phantom 4, both hardly 15' above us. There were lots of people out there that were flown over too. Probably some newbies that got drones for Christmas.

This corner of the lake is about 7 miles from the closest airport. I've flown here in the past. Now that I've learned to read sectionals, I see that it's technically Class E to the surface from the airport out onto the lake a small ways. On Airmap, as a hobbyist, you are out of the radius of the airport, but for 107, you would need permission? Doesn't make sense. In addition to education, there has to be a better and easier way for both commercial and hobbyists to know where they can and can't fly without needing authorization.

 

[N42742]

In addition to education, there has to be a better and easier way for both commercial and hobbyists to know where they can and can't fly without needing authorization.

And that's pretty much why you have to study for a test. The FAA wants you to learn how to determine if an Authorization is needed, based on the airspace you are in. It isn't difficult, but you do have to learn how.

 

[GMack]

.... In addition to education, there has to be a better and easier way for both commercial and hobbyists to know where they can and can't fly without needing authorization.

Second that.

I find it's easier to talk to the local police department desk Sargent to get the skinny on drone flights in a given area. Some know what I need, like talk to the film commissioner for a permit, insurance, and then maybe see the local business license office for a temporary one-day business license to operate in their town. I've even gotten referred to the sheriff who has some say over county land and if trespassing would be involved, or if the BLM would consider trespassing even in the desert on federal land (They have.). FAA is a small part once in the air, but getting off the ground commercially and legally is another matter. Even still shooting on the beach, dry sand is a city permit, and wet sand is some CA Coastal Commission permit. Insane. If I do get out of the drone business, it will because I am tired of dealing with the police and city ordinances as well as our supervisor who I suspect hates drones in general. Too many fly illegally around here for commercial gain without a 107 and pointless to have a license and try and do it legally. /rant.

 

[Nightwolf]

An idiot will always be an idiot but the easier the FAA makes it to conform the more folks are likely to conform. I think the 107 is needlessly complicated for the average Joe looking to take pictures. That said I would be ok with taking a test; even as a hobbyist.

Why is it people making money have to take a test when I can fly the same line for free without taking a test?

 

[gingerbloke]

Don't know the p107 stuff in any detail but the PfCO (CAA here in the UK) certainly looks to be overkill. I'm reading through the pre-course stuff and much of it doesn't seem relevant. I'll reserve judgement until I've taken the course itself.

I think the only advantage will be that you can snitch on people who are flying commercially without permission

 

[DixonAerial]

Answer to question is tax dollars. $150 of them to be exact.

 

[GMack]

....
I think the only advantage will be that you can snitch on people who are flying commercially without permission

Doesn't work. Too many of them, and too late to catch them both. Only advantage is you can spot illegal flights easier and raise your ire, but FAA and local police will probably look away from a complaint. That Casey Neistat guy in New York got away with a lot of stuff with his Youtube videos over several years and made millions. May not even have a 107 either, but don't know ( Casey Neistat New York Karma - sUAS News - The Business of Drones )

 

[BigAl07]

Answer to question is tax dollars. $150 of them to be exact.

That money doesn't go into the tax bucket but to the testing facility.

 

[N42742]

An idiot will always be an idiot but the easier the FAA makes it to conform the more folks are likely to conform. I think the 107 is needlessly complicated for the average Joe looking to take pictures.

Even Average Joe is flying inside the National Airspace System. Doesn't matter why he's there. He needs to understand the system and conform just like everyone else. This stuff really isn't that difficult and I don't think it's too much of the FAA to ask. Anyone can learn it with a few hours of study.

 

[barefootbeachcombing]

Answer to question is tax dollars. $150 of them to be exact.

Wrong.

The fee is paid to the testing center which 1) is not a government agency and 2) keeps the money.