Question to the group

[Rick_x]

Background: I am a construction superintendent starting a new project. I want to document the progress. I am trying to negotiate a deal so I can survey the project.

The Project is a 500,000 square foot distribution center. A ton of site work. I am doing this for me, I will use the maps i make in meetings. so I don’t need a 107 license. I am studying for it.

I have never flown a drone. I will pick up a small one to practice before a crash and burn a wad of $$ Any tips. I plan on flying pre programmed patterns.

I have been researching this purchase for ~4 months and i am ready to spend the cash. The project is about not start.

I am thinking the Pro but then i read there are issues w/ using 3rd party software and the monitor. Still trying to figure this out. I have an iPad Pro i was thinking this was to big.

Experienced people what would you buy and why. Especially accessories how many batteries carrying cases any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking buy a bare model and purchasing the accessories separately. Or is there a really good kit out there?

Thank you in advance,
Rick

 

[jwmcgrath]

Hey Rick, welcome to the adventure!

I have a P3 Standard.

It is more than capable of surveying a 500K sq’ area.
It has 2.7K video, which is clearer than what a 1080p TV can produce.
I bought a tablet mount and an iPad Mini2 as a dedicated device and more than happy with the performance of both.
I have four batteries total for over an hour and a half of flight time, and a four hub aftermarket battery charger. All have performed flawlessly.
I have a hard case that I can fit all those accessories in, while still leaving the propellers ON for transport and I wouldn’t change that either.
I wanted entry level for the $ involved but the entire setup has not disappointed and I feel no urgent desire to upgrade.

Hope that helps... you’ll get a hundred more opinions, mine is just one, and feel free to ask if there is anything I can expand on!

 

[Meta4]

Background: I am a construction superintendent starting a new project. I want to document the progress. I am trying to negotiate a deal so I can survey the project.
The Project is a 500,000 square foot distribution center. A ton of site work.

A Phantom is very useful for documenting big construction projects.
I do a video fly-through on one on a monthly basis that gets used in planning and board meetings to show progress without having a bunch of people walking all over the active site.
It's also good for creating orthophoto maps.

I have never flown a drone. I will pick up a small one to practice before a crash and burn a wad of $$

The Phantom is much easier to fly than you imagine. It takes about 5 minutes to get the basics but there's a lot to learn about what could go wrong and how to make sure they don't.
That catches some people because they get too confident too early and don't realise how risky their actions are.
The Phantom is easier to fly than the cheap drones that are sometimes recommended for learning.
It's probably better to start on a Phantom and use the learning time for the important things like how the Phantom is programmed and how you use it.

I have never flown a drone. I will pick up a small one to practice before a crash and burn a wad of $$ Any tips. I plan on flying pre programmed patterns.

For flying programmed routes (waypoint missions) you will want to get Litchi, a 3rd party app that is extremely good at this.
But it's important to get experience on all the basics of flying before moving on to advanced methods.

I am thinking the Pro but then i read there are issues w/ using 3rd party software and the monitor. Still trying to figure this out. I have an iPad Pro i was thinking this was to big.

The P4 pro is extremely good.
It comes in two flavours - P4 pro and P4 pro+.
The regular P4 pro has no problem using 3rd party software like Litchi or DroneDeploy. The Plus won't allow those.

 

[tevek]

In addition to what @jwmcgrath has posted, you might want consider a 3rd party app like Litchi or Dronedeploy to run the same mission each time as the construction progresses. I used a PS3 to follow the progress of a mining maintenance project that I was leading. Turned out fine and had I had known of Litchi at the time, it would have made for a better result.
Having said all of that, I would consider a P3A/P only due to the lightbridge setup vs wifi.

 

[LarBear360]

P3S is all you need. Image quality, range, ease of use is all there.

 

[Rick_x]

Thanks all. The building is 500,000 soft, the property ~35 acres. A substantial amount of site work, fast track project.

How long or how many batteries will i need to fly this to build the Ortho’s?

Is there a particular charger that is considered better than others?

I will be flying the sight daily....I think. It will be as much as possible I have to see how long the mission takes to fly. I will dial it in. My point being I need quality, something that can stand daily use.

I was looking at the P4 pro. I do love my gadgets!

Filters...1 better than the next?

Better yet is there a reputable vendor that comes highly recommend? I know more that the ppl at Best Buy and they have no idea what my goals are.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Meta4]

Thanks all. The building is 500,000 soft, the property ~35 acres. A substantial amount of site work, fast track project.
How long or how many batteries will i need to fly this to build the orthos?

No problem on 1 battery. I'm just looking at a 44 acre site I've been doing regular orthophotos on using DroneDeploy and at an altitude of 247 ft, I'm getting 1.3 inches/pixel detail and it takes 15 minutes to fly, incliding an orbit after flying the grid.
If I leave out the orbit or fly higher it's even quicker.

Is there a particular charger that is considered better than others?

The standard charger that's included is just fine.

Filters...1 better than the next?

Filters are for serious video but won't do anything to improve stills or mapping.

 

[sar104]

You mentioned not needing Part 107, but presumably that was a typo, and you know that you do.

 

[Rick_x]

No problem on 1 battery. I'm just looking at a 44 acre site I've been doing regular orthophotos on using DroneDeploy and at an altitude of 247 ft, I'm getting 1.3 inches/pixel detail and it takes 15 minutes to fly, incliding an orbit after flying the grid.
If I leave out the orbit or fly higher it's even quicker.

The standard charger that's included is just fine.

Filters are for serious video but won't do anything to improve stills or mapping.

Thank you

 

[Rick_x]

You mentioned not needing Part 107, but presumably that was a typo, and you know that you do.

Why? this is for me I’m only spending money, certainly not making any. If I have to I will look into testing dates. I have been studying.

Rick

 

[sar104]

Why? this is for me I’m only spending money, certainly not making any. If I have to I will look into testing dates. I have been studying.

Rick

Because it's clearly not recreational - it's supporting a business. Whether or not you are personally making any money is not the applicable criterion. You should definitely get your remote pilot license for this kind of work.

 

[Rick_x]

Because it's clearly not recreational - it's supporting a business. Whether or not you are personally making any money is not the applicable criterion. You should definitely get your remote pilot license for this kind of work.

If I didn’t use the phots in my meetings then I am good to go? This would be the only way I would be supporting the business. I assure you this purely the engineer in me coming out. it’s amazing what I they are capable of & I want to learn. I have no marketable skill set as of yet.

Alternatively I can just sit for the test. I have no aversion to this just curious as to how you figure this would benefit my company
Rick

 

[sar104]

If I didn’t use the phots in my meetings then I am good to go? This would be the only way I would be supporting the business. I assure you this purely the engineer in me coming out. it’s amazing what I they are capable of & I want to learn. I have no marketable skill set as of yet.

Alternatively I can just sit for the test. I have no aversion to this just curious as to how you figure this would benefit my company
Rick

If you are using aerial images in any way in relation to the business then you are not flying recreationally. I have no idea what could be unclear about that.

On the other hand, if you don't use them in any work-related sense then no - they would not be benefiting the business.

 

[Rick_x]

If you are using aerial images in any way in relation to the business then you are not flying recreationally. I have no idea what could be unclear about that.

On the other hand, if you don't use them in any work-related sense then no - they would not be benefiting the business.

Thank you for the clarification. I was abundantly clean I am new to this . Your original statement assumed I made a typeo. I do pride myself in having a through understanding of any situation I am in

What was unclear to me what what action triggered me needing needing the 107. Was it because I am flying over a construction site on a regular basis? Was it because I would use the images in my meetings. I never read the verbiage “supporting a business “ I googled this and found nothing I did not know and you sounded pretty sure of yourself. You could a least point me to a regulation.

I appreciate the help
Rick

 

[LarBear360]

I'm of the opinion a Part 107 is going to be needed. You stated in your original post "I am trying to negotiate a deal so I can survey the project" so there may be some compensation involved? The key is recreational vs. commercial use.

Why not just ask the FAA?

I'm also thinking that if you already work for this company and the video is never sold to anyone, you may not need it. Unless being a drone pilot is your primary job there, which it's not.

 

[sar104]

Thank you for the clarification. I was abundantly clean I am new to this . Your original statement assumed I made a typeo. I do pride myself in having a through understanding of any situation I am in

What was unclear to me what what action triggered me needing needing the 107. Was it because I am flying over a construction site on a regular basis? Was it because I would use the images in my meetings. I never read the verbiage “supporting a business “ I googled this and found nothing I did not know and you sounded pretty sure of yourself. You could a least point me to a regulation.

I appreciate the help
Rick

Since you mentioned studying for your Part 107 I assumed that you were somewhat familiar with the applicable laws. The following references should help.

14 CFR Part 107 defines in 107.1 (b) 3 that it applies to all operations that do not fall under section 336 of Public Law 112-95, a.k.a the Special Rule for Model Aircraft. That states that only purely recreational flight is covered by the special rule, and the FAA issued a clarifying interpretation on that point.

 

[Rick_x]

I'm of the opinion a Part 107 is going to be needed. You stated in your original post "I am trying to negotiate a deal so I can survey the project" so there may be some compensation involved? The key is recreational vs. commercial use.

Why not just ask the FAA?

I'm also thinking that if you already work for this company and the video is never sold to anyone, you may not need it. Unless being a drone pilot is your primary job there, which it's not.

That is a very good point! I never thought of it. I will call email them on Monday.

No I am the General Superintendent. As a priority flying the drone is very far down on the list. I run the site. I would like to document what is going to be a very exciting project and extremely fast paced!

Ive watched several webinars an the construction mapping capabilities and surveying capabilities, I already use civil CAD.

We are at the final design ready for permit sets to be issued. ACOE is close on the wetland permit. I should be digging Footers early November.

Thank you for the insight,
Rick

 

[Rick_x]

Since you mentioned studying for your Part 107 I assumed that you were somewhat familiar with the applicable laws. The following references should help.

14 CFR Part 107 defines in 107.1 (b) 3 that it applies to all operations that do not fall under section 336 of Public Law 112-95, a.k.a the Special Rule for Model Aircraft. That states that only purely recreational flight is covered by the special rule, and the FAA issued a clarifying interpretation on that point.

Understood. Assume this I know nothing. 4 months ago I saw some survey / Dron info at a trade show. cit combined my two passions gadgets & building stuff. I had never even had a thought of flying a drone.

I have been reading this board’s past post, researching all the possible software and costs, watching webinars all geared toward buying all this week, then i found out about the legal stuff so started looking into that... it is a lot to take in a short amount of time.

This is what i meant about “negotiations w/ my company” a seat for the software for what i want to do, is paid as a monthly subscription. ~700.00 per month. I wanted to see if the budget could support this.

I work for a large construction/ engineering firm I have a fiduciary duty to my company I could never do anything that I knowingly caused them exposure to a risk.

Then my thoughts were that if no monies change hand then I would be ok as a hobbies. I Did see how this is a gray area. I hate gray areas I am very binary person. Our legal dept. hates them more so

I did consider that a perceived benefit would be the data iand also would be paying an indirect cost. company. Then again I was not benefiting finically in any way. I confused my self.

I just figured I would hazard on the side of caution and researched the standard D/l the 107 PDF, watched a few webinars. At the moment I I am studying about maps, restricted airspace and how it is classified etc.I want the knowledge not just a pice of paper saying i test well/

Then again if it keeps me out of trouble I can just pay for a test prep and get the cliffs notes version. I wanted to learn as much as i could.

W/ regards to your post I thought perhaps there was a reg that referenced this. The best idea i received, was to call the FAA. I never considered this as an option.

Again Thanks for the info,
Rick

 

[sar104]

Understood. Assume this I know nothing. 4 months ago I saw some survey / Dron info at a trade show. cit combined my two passions gadgets & building stuff. I had never even had a thought of flying a drone.

I have been reading this board’s past post, researching all the possible software and costs, watching webinars all geared toward buying all this week, then i found out about the legal stuff so started looking into that... it is a lot to take in a short amount of time.

This is what i meant about “negotiations w/ my company” a seat for the software for what i want to do, is paid as a monthly subscription. ~700.00 per month. I wanted to see if the budget could support this.

I work for a large construction/ engineering firm I have a fiduciary duty to my company I could never do anything that I knowingly caused them exposure to a risk.

Then my thoughts were that if no monies change hand then I would be ok as a hobbies. I Did see how this is a gray area. I hate gray areas I am very binary person. Our legal dept. hates them more so

I did consider that a perceived benefit would be the data iand also would be paying an indirect cost. company. Then again I was not benefiting finically in any way. I confused my self.

I just figured I would hazard on the side of caution and researched the standard D/l the 107 PDF, watched a few webinars. At the moment I I am studying about maps, restricted airspace and how it is classified etc.I want the knowledge not just a pice of paper saying i test well/

Then again if it keeps me out of trouble I can just pay for a test prep and get the cliffs notes version. I wanted to learn as much as i could.

W/ regards to your post I thought perhaps there was a reg that referenced this. The best idea i received, was to call the FAA. I never considered this as an option.

Again Thanks for the info,
Rick

You can certainly call the FAA, or most likely your local FSDO, and you should do that if you have any doubts on the issue, but they will give you the same answer. There is nothing ambiguous in the regulations and interpretations that I linked above, so I'm not clear why you don't think that it is referenced in the regulations. On top of which this question has been asked of the FAA many times. The answer is not going to change.

 

[Rick_x]

I am not looking to skirt the law. I am an engineer not a lawyer. I do not read the statute as clearly as you do. I control the site. I would fly off hours and will not accept any money for my photos. I have dealt w/ enough inspectors to know many have the same personality you have displayed in this email. I also fully understand the onus is on me to know and understand the law. I don’t so I hold off on this pursuit.

If i can not put a drone in the air the day before I put shovel in the ground, then I would rather wait. perhaps this will work for the next project. Iam not looking to open myself up to any liability.

Rick