If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 READ!

[Prylar Bek]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I really think something is wrong when you have to be cutting holes in your quad. I've had different phantoms since they came out and never had to worry about this. IT SHOULD FLY FINE THE WAY YOU BOUGHT IT !

While this is affecting a few people, I believe it is not affecting the majority of V3 quad owners/pilots. I'd guess that quite a number of V3's have been/are being sold and flown since they came out in November worldwide. Hundreds? Thousands maybe? If there were a constant, a part that is produced and placed in all of the V3 Phantoms, then logic would dictate that they would all heat up and malfunction, with very little exception right out of the box or shortly after. I personally find it hard to believe that all V3 quads are a time-bomb waiting to overheat and fall out of the sky. Something tells me that simply is not the case.

Until someone qualified does a true diagnostics test under the exact same circumstances and conditions, we can what if and guess all day long, but that isn't going on actual data and facts. Until then, I'll continue to fly mine as I have been, without any incident or signs of heating or melting components flying in mid 70's degree weather.

IMO, this is being blown way out of proportion.

Respectfully,

I agree completely

 

[MacCool]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Hi I'm a first time quadcopter and Phantom owner. I just got my Phantom 2 Vision + on the 2nd January. After going through this thread I decided to open it up and have a look. It seems to have the thin wires but I've no idea about the ESC however it's labelled as V2.1. I tried to move the wires away from the mosfets as much as possible and also tried to leave some distance between the wires themselves before closing it again. Here are a few photos. I'd like the experts' opinion on what I did. Thanks.

I guess if I was going to go to the trouble of opening the Phantom to rearrange wiring, I'd also take the opportunity to pick up some appropriate-sized silicone fuel line tubing for R/C airplanes at the hobby shop, slit it, and slip it over the wires to insulate.

 

[MacCool]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Which would cause more heat, 100% full throttle load or many load changes. I think full load would be the heat indicator and the rapid load changes would test the firmware and hardware for the random spits and sputters some people have speculated.

According to Paul's treatise, the problem isn't heat from load changes, it's rapid heat buildup from a stalled propeller creating a dead short in the motor circuit. This can be caused by a tipover, or by some kind of (undefined) air maneuver that creates a momentary stalled propeller.

 

[burlbark]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Which would cause more heat, 100% full throttle load or many load changes. I think full load would be the heat indicator and the rapid load changes would test the firmware and hardware for the random spits and sputters some people have speculated.

According to Paul's treatise, the problem isn't heat from load changes, it's rapid heat buildup from a stalled propeller creating a dead short in the motor circuit. This can be caused by a tipover, or by some kind of (undefined) air maneuver that creates a momentary stalled propeller.

The mosfets are cheap... I am in the process of possibly upgrading them and parts are on order. This along with hard wire is a recipe for failure, more testing to come.

 

[MacCool]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Which would cause more heat, 100% full throttle load or many load changes. I think full load would be the heat indicator and the rapid load changes would test the firmware and hardware for the random spits and sputters some people have speculated.

According to Paul's treatise, the problem isn't heat from load changes, it's rapid heat buildup from a stalled propeller creating a dead short in the motor circuit. This can be caused by a tipover, or by some kind of (undefined) air maneuver that creates a momentary stalled propeller.

The mosfets are cheap... I am in the process of possibly upgrading them and parts are on order. This along with hard wire is a recipe for failure, more testing to come.

I'm not convinced about the importance of the wire diameter as a primary problem, but I certainly agree that if you're repairing the ESC (presuming you have a newer ESC with the appropriate firmware version) and are going to the trouble of replacing the MOSFET, it's certainly reasonable to modify the wiring at the same time. The warranty would be toast anyway.

As to replacing the MOSFET, are you proposing that this is a fix for an otherwise burnout-prone older version ESC? is there such a thing as a MOSFET that is more resistant to melting from shorting from a stalled motor? If not, I don't see how upgrading the wiring an replacing the MOSFET with the same component would prevent the drop-from-the-sky problem.

 

[herkam]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

When you drive a BLDC motor or stepper motor you focus on the current to the motor, not the voltage. You demand a current to the motor driver circuit and the circuit will pulse the voltage on/off/on (PWM) to keep the current at the correct level. If you get a stall and two windings gets energized all the time it shouldn't blow any mosfets, it should just continue to current regulate the two enabled windings. This is the normal way....but I'm not sure if DJI uses current regulation or just turns on full voltage to the windings? If you skip current regulation and just turn on full voltage you will get higher current through the winding at a stall condition and also each time you start the motors, how much higher depends on the inductanse of the winding and back EMF.

One way to blow the mosfets is if you have a bug in the driver IC that enables both the hi and lo side mosfet for a winding, then you have a dead short in the ESC!! The mosfets will receive all current that the battery can output and get toasted! No current will flow to the motor through the wires since this happens on the circuit board.

A user at the dji forums has managed to reproduce the fault just by stalling the motor. Could be a bug in the ESC that gets triggered by the stall and enables both hi and lo side mosfet at the same time?

/hakan

 

[MacCool]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

A user at the dji forums has managed to reproduce the fault just by stalling the motor. Could be a bug in the ESC that gets triggered by the stall and enables both hi and lo side mosfet at the same time?

Yes. na5n posted his testing over at DJI. IIUC, that was his conclusion.

 

[herkam]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

"Yes. na5n posted his testing over at DJI. IIUC, that was his conclusion."
If I understand things correctly his conclusion was that it was enough to just energize a winding with a stalled engine to fry the mosfets, no internal short in the ESC.
If they have current regulation on the windings the stall shouldn't be an issue, but if the don't regulate the current it will vary depending on motor speed and be highest when the motor is stalled.

If this can be solved by a software update I think we have a bug that creates a short in the ESC by enabling both hi and lo side mosfets.

/hakan

 

[mlars]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I have opened my +v3 I got on the 29th dec. I took the cover off and my esc boards have no v2.0 or v2.1 next to the bar code. The store could have got it long before I did. I assume it is before they went to 2.0 and 2.1 so where would that fit in. I would just wait for it to fail or not but $1400 to wonder, over water or 250' above whatever. Who would enjoy that's? Dji basically says your safe with 2.1, the upgraded 2.0.

 

[rhysvins]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I've opened my lid this afternoon and found I have the V2.1 ESC's.

I will continue to fly with a little more faith and maybe not view the forum so I can't hear anything bad. What you don't know can't hurt you right?

 

[Eltrochaphantom]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I've opened my lid this afternoon and found I have the V2.1 ESC's.

I will continue to fly with a little more faith and maybe not view the forum so I can't hear anything bad. What you don't know can't hurt you right?

When did u buy it and from who?

 

[rhysvins]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

When did u buy it and from who?

I got mine late December 14 and from Quadcopters.co.uk

 

[sterha]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I have the v3 with 2.1 esc. And i fly it with no worries. And its fun!

 

[eyecon82]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Not sure if I just got lucky, but had a tip over while landing yesterday. First incident since I got my P2V+, so I was a little freaked out. I was actually landed, then did CSC to stop motors when the tip occurred. Changed the 2 props and did a test flight, everything seems ok.

any idea WHY it tipped?

Push left stick down for a few seconds in landing instead of a csc

When I spend this much money on a product that is supposed to work right out of the box I expect it to do exactly that.Work. I dont see the point in ordering one and putting my time and money into it if I am going to have to "fix" it on my own in order for it to work right. A product, any product should work as advertized. If I wanted to solder wires I would just buy one I could build myself.
This makes me want to consider the vision as opposed to the vision plus. It also makes me wonder if I want to buy a Dji at all.

No offense, but are you new to the rc world?

In this hobby, you have to be comfortable taking apart your bird, knowing what Is going on, etc.

You will never find a perfect uav. You think the grass is greener on the other side? Just go ahead and look at the walkera forums....

Just like with ALL aircraft, you have to maintain and service it regularly or it will fall out of the sky no matter what

No offense taken and yes I am new to the quad copter world. I absolutely see your point about new technology needing to be tweaked. I would expect some bugs in firmware or even GPS because like you said the technology is new. RC motors with propellers on the other hand have been around for a very long time and are fairly simple. I will buy the phantom but after research I think I'm going to go with the vision non plus model. I can put upgrades on it when they get the bugs worked out.

That involves more work though. You have to install an iosd, gimbal, fpv, etc.

I have gotten a lot of info right here to decide to return mine. I just got it at Christmas. It is a v3, have not even charged the battery yet. Will think about getting older model in exchange but hate going backward.

bad idea

Or not? The V2s aren't dropping like rocks.

I doubt that the v3.0's are either.

I think there's an engineering issue with the ESC's. I don't think it's clear how big a problem it is. Obviously, there are a couple of prominent posters on this forum for whom it is a big deal. Many have drawn conclusions about the issue, its cause, and its solution from those posts that leads them to make assumptions that just aren't objectively supported. Yet.

Here are a few other images. Has anything changed from the previous version apart from the GPS shielding?

The wifi module has also been changed

 

[robinb]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I've opened my lid this afternoon and found I have the V2.1 ESC's.

I will continue to fly with a little more faith and maybe not view the forum so I can't hear anything bad. What you don't know can't hurt you right?

Well done, no looking back now.

 

[Bymg]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Mine was a Christmas gift and arrived a few days before Christmas. It has the v2.0 on it was purchased from LCE who i understand have an excellent reputation. I've only flown it three times and there looks like there may be signs at the end of the cables of the plastic shielding starting to melt a tiny bit.

LCE are raising the concerns with DJI and we'll wait and see what they offer to do about it. In the meantime an easy way to test this I guess, without risking a crash would be to take the case off and then pop it back on loosly with the plug back in it and then with the propellors off it power it up and fly it for 15 minutes without it actually flying. If the cables get really hot then there is the problem identified and you know that the components will need replacing ratherr than the entire unit..... Is there any reason why this wouldnt replicate the issue?

 

[msinger]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

and then with the propellors off it power it up and fly it for 15 minutes without it actually flying. If the cables get really hot then there is the problem identified and you know that the components will need replacing ratherr than the entire unit

Wouldn't a lot of other components overheat too since the props are not cooling them down like they usually do? This could be a dangerous test.

 

[Mako79]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

and then with the propellors off it power it up and fly it for 15 minutes without it actually flying. If the cables get really hot then there is the problem identified and you know that the components will need replacing ratherr than the entire unit

Wouldn't a lot of other components overheat too since the props are not cooling them down like they usually do? This could be a dangerous test.

+1
The props cool the phantom down. DO NOT run the motors without props it also confuses the ESC.

*Sugestion ONLY*
In normal correct firmware circumstances the ESC "knows" exactly where the phase is to prevent failure.
If you want to test it, just imitate a tip over by obstructing the props. I'll assume, once there is load on the props/motors, it will cause a confusion in the firmware/software phase and maybe a cause the short.
This happens real quick and I don't know the sequence of events...
Maybe some can answer this..
Does the incorrect phase cause:
the wires to melt > short > then the mosfets burn up?
the mosfets burn up > short > then melt wires > white smoke?
Or maybe I'm off track??

 

[burlbark]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

and then with the propellors off it power it up and fly it for 15 minutes without it actually flying. If the cables get really hot then there is the problem identified and you know that the components will need replacing ratherr than the entire unit

Wouldn't a lot of other components overheat too since the props are not cooling them down like they usually do? This could be a dangerous test.

+1
The props cool the phantom down. DO NOT run the motors without props it also confuses the ESC.

*Sugestion ONLY*
In normal correct firmware circumstances the ESC "knows" exactly where the phase is to prevent failure.
If you want to test it, just imitate a tip over by obstructing the props. I'll assume, once there is load on the props/motors, it will cause a confusion in the firmware/software phase and maybe a cause the short.
This happens real quick and I don't know the sequence of events...
Maybe some can answer this..
Does the incorrect phase cause:
the wires to melt > short > then the mosfets burn up?
the mosfets burn up > short > then melt wires > white smoke?
Or maybe I'm off track??

I have seen only one example of a mosfet burn closed and allow current to continue. They usually go and kill all power. This is with hundreds of repairs and fet stacking for brushless and brushed motors for the last 12 years.

The motor wires are not going to burn out with the fets smoked. Its going to be a very rare occurrence. The board traces would go up in smoke. I owed a company back around 2005? Customxmods and did all sorts of crazy mods including custom motor controllers that could handle 300 amps in a 1/27 scale. I never had a single motor or motor leads burn up from fet failure. The pads on the mosfet often fuse to the esc and and then you get a poof of smoke and no power.

 

[Mako79]

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Thanks.

OK..
So wires melting is from the way DJI lays the wires on top of the mosfets and has nothing to do with the gauge?