How to Eliminate your flyaway concerns in 13 steps

[Doono]

Good post, I wish I knew how to subscribe to it, like it says in the FAQ.

 

[offtosleep]

*** I will be editing this post based on new information/comments***

DJI Phantom 2 Vision Plus is a fantastic, cutting edge product, but has had some serious concerns. It is advertised as an RTF (ready to fly) unit for "everybody". It is not. It requires reading the manual, watching videos, researching various topics online, and practice, but most of all, it requires switching the shipped software settings to another mode before flight (NAZA mode) in order to counter the loss of GPS signal during flight.

In a nutshell, if your Phantom drops below 5-6 satellites during flight, GPS mode is cancelled. It will not hover in one position, but drift with the wind. Worse, the RTH (return to home) function DJI touts as a "failsafe" will not work.

Many Phantoms seem to operate perfectly fine without the following steps, but more than a few "fly away". The following list isn't a requirement, but if you want to limit your long term risk of a "fly away", please invest the time and effort:

When you get your Phantom, do the following:
1. Read the manual.
2. Watch the videos
3. Read this board
4. Charge your batteries
5. Open your phantom (plenty of YouTube video on this) and seal the exposed electrical connections with GE Silicone II (non-acetic acid formula). This eliminates poor quality control during assembly or just plain shaking a connection loose during flight. Not definitively needed, but a worthwhile thing to do if your comfortable with it.
6. Install the drivers and DJI Assistant software into your computer. Connect your Phantom. Test transmitter function, switch to NAZA mode, enable IOC, set height and distance limits, perform an IMU calibration, check compass variables are within normal limits.
7. Check winds aloft (if the winds exceed 30 mph at the altitude you are flying, your Phantom may not be able to fight them and will "fly away".
8. Calibrate the compass (and repeat prior to flight any time you change geographic area significantly).
9. Inspect the prop tips and hubs carefully for cracks/damage. If you hit a big bug (cicada), or have bumped the props, they could fail during flight. Your Phantom will not be controllable and the NAZA flight controller will respond by trying to correct the imbalance in unpredictable ways.
10. Do not take off until your DJI FPV smartphone app is connected, the camera is functioning, and the app indicates at least 6 satellites and you are sure your home point is "locked". The RF (radio frequency) shielding of the Phantom has been observed (in a lab/small sample size) to be poor and can interfere with weak GPS signals. If the Phantom falls below 5-6 satellites during flight, it will drift with the wind, and the RTH (return to home) function will not work. Switch to ATTI mode using the S1 switch immediately.
11. Following take off, hover at 10 feet or so until the Phantom is stable and you confirm basic flight commands are functioning. Then ascend above the highest local obstacle (trees, houses, buildings, etc).
12. Avoid rapid descents, as this is known to cause VRS (vortex ring state). This results in the Phantom fluttering to the ground at high speed, despite full throttle. It is easily avoided by moving in any lateral direction during descent (right stick input). Be aware this may occur in hover as well, and that DJI prop guards are known to increase the likelihood of VRS.
13. Learn how to use the various IOC modes and flight modes in a big, open field with soft grass. In the event of any erratic behavior of the Phantom, switch to ATTI mode and land immediately.

If you take the time to learn these 13 steps, you will eliminate a vast majority of fly away concerns. You still need to be concerned with motor failure, ESC (electronic speed controller) failure, and RF interference. They have not yet invented a flying machine that is simple and idiot proof. Chinese labor and manufacturing is cheap for a reason, as Quality control and worker skill is questionable. The P2V+ is fragile. A bump or hard landing could effect the NAZA flight controller, its sensors, or especially the gimbal/camera. If you are new to this, buy a $400 Phantom FC40, which takes a beating before you bang up a $1369 P2V+ that does not (at this time) have a good replacement part or repair availability. You could always sell that FC40 and recoup at least half of your investment.

Other safety measures:
Repeat Advanced IMU calibration after any "hard" landings or bumps. Perform a compass calibration after IMU calibration.
Purchase a "Getterback" water retrieval device and mount to landing skid.
Purchase a GPS tracking device to mount on your Phantom (many topics on this board about different ones).
Purchase the third party FPV Boost app.
Upgrade your antennas with FPVLR.com stage 2 kit to have a lower chance of connection loss. (requires some modification and skill).
S1 and S2 switches are easy to inadvertently bump, be careful. Periodically check their function in DJI Assistant software as some have reported bad switches after some use.
Write your name and number on the Phantom in case its lost and found by a kind heart.

Emergency Check List:
VRS: apply right stick input immediately
If anything seems out of the ordinary: switch to ATTI mode immediately. Land immediately. Figure it out before you fly again.

Sure wished I still had a PV+ to try your 13 steps on. I think I followed all of those recommendations and my bird still flew the coop.

BUT, to those who still have a bird, these are good, solid, recommendations that will certainly minimize your risk.

Thanks for posting Dr. JOE!

 

[Doono]

Thanks 17RW, for a thoughtful and intelligent reply. I guess I'm tiring of some folks presenting as fact their opinion on these things based on anecdotal evidence and/or personal bias. My guess is the verdict is out and likely to remain so.

My post was meant as recommendations to reduce "fly aways" and other issues based on my experience. In reading the boards over the past few months, I notice a lot of pilots with VRS accidents had prop guards on. My prop guards came very late, so **IN MY EXPERIENCE**, the Phantom responded differently, then I had a VRS incident. Didn't have on before, didn't have one since removing them. I suppose most of the info on this board consists of opinion, as many of us don't have access to 50 Phantoms to empirically test with different variables and parameters.

If you like prop guards, that is fine. They seem like a good idea for safety. All I would like to express is that you should be prepared for a VRS incident and know how to handle it. Agreed?

Agreed

 

[Dalite]

I have used prop guards on 2 FC-40s, a P 1.1.1 ( that I just sold) and a P2V.

Regarding screws, if you use the longer screws without the guards installed, they will hit the motor windings; because they are too long without the guard taking up part of their length. If you can't be bothered to put the correct length screw back in when the guards aren't in use, you can replace your motors much more often than those who are more aware of their surroundings and the concepts of simple mechanics.

The closer the prop tips come to rach other, the more the craft will resemble a kite in times when there is wind and no thrust or momentum. The guards add to the sail area. So, the longer props on the P2 combined with the prop guards make it more susceptable to acting like a kite in wind when there is no thrust being generated. Always maintain momentum/inertia in windy conditions; especially during descent. Flying into the wind gives more control than drifting with the wind. If there is more wind than the allowed descent rate can offset, chances are the craft is going to just sail away while you helplessly watch. Prop Guards aren't gong to make that much difference. Manual mode gives you the ability to recover from some of the possible casualties brought about by poorly thought out firmware routines.

Prop guards save props from damage, prop guards save people from props; especially the carbon fiber scalpels that some feel are necessary. Prop Guards should be a major consideration whenever flying in a public environment. When flying by oneself on private property, their presence can be directly linked to self worth and spare prop availability. When hand catching, they are an added safety aspect.

The time spent removing prop guards to put the phantom in a case will not cause early death. The time spent reinstalling them before flight gives a few more minutes of observation to contemplate the changes in environment from where you traveled from.

Those are the broad strokes of what I have observed after using them on 4 different Phantoms.

I currently have them on 2 P1s and 1 P2. I have a GoProfessional P1 case and a rolling Tradecraft P2 case. Neither have turned into pumpkins as a result of time spent removing the guards for transport.

My tongue-in-cheek observations..... YMMV...

 

[Tony McDrone]

Whatever you do, just remember to change the screws to the original, shorter ones, when it's time to fly without the prop guards. You will absolutely destroy the motors if you forget to change them out, speaking strictly from experience. I ruined a FC-40, then saw a video 2 weeks later, reminding me to change the screws once the guards are removed...the most important step in the entire process! Happy Flying All!

 

[gunslinger]

Re: Good advice, but something that needs...

further discussion:
In my own case, I put them on not because I think I'll bump into something in flight, but because after touch down many quads tend to be "light on their feet" until shutdown and can be pushed over by even small winds thereby dinging the props.

I totally agree regarding how easy it is to break a prop while landing due to tip overs... Which is exactly why I always hand land... Get a good grip high up on one leg and shut the motors down...

-slinger

 

[Dalite]

Re: Good advice, but something that needs...

further discussion:
In my own case, I put them on not because I think I'll bump into something in flight, but because after touch down many quads tend to be "light on their feet" until shutdown and can be pushed over by even small winds thereby dinging the props.

I totally agree regarding how easy it is to break a prop while landing due to tip overs... Which is exactly why I always hand land... Get a good grip high up on one leg and shut the motors down...

-slinger

As an add-on to the hand catch technique; catch, lower left stick and tilt Phantom more than 70 degrees for immediate motor stop. Make the NAZA work with you and for you.

 

[abacus01]

concerns i have using the NAZA mode anyone

great write up to the op on this one....so i haven't turned on NAZA mode yet....im concerned because a lot of the flyaways seem to happen in this mode...you wrote...below the following:

the P2V+ is fragile. A bump or hard landing could effect the NAZA flight controller, its sensors, or especially the gimbal/camera

So the gimbal camera doesn't affect the controller in phantom mode...what do you mean NAZA flight controller..i thought it was one in the same..thats question one....is there a home lock in phantom mode..i thought there was....reason i'd like to use NAZA is the orientation function that always lets the right stick pushed up made your drone go away and back come back to you...i find this the biggest problem in phantom mode...is phantom mode the same as ATTI?. I have not upgraded the software at all because i don't like the slow descent feature they added...and i don't fly near airports...so far so good...but i'd like to try out NAZA...but if Naza gets confused about home lock ect...is it safe for someone with 10 flights under their belt to switch to this..and please if anyone can or feels like they could answer i'd appreciate it..i know some of this stuff is in the manual...thanks

 

[BlackTracer]

Atti and naza mode are sort of unrelated. First I think atti mode is available in phantom mode. S1 middle and down in phantom mode switches you to atti I think. Someone running in phantom can check this on the ground. After you get slow green, switch S1 middle and your lights will flash slow yellow if you are in atti.

Atti still gives you auto leveling just no gps. So it will not hold its position with sticks released. It will drift with the wind. Also if you give stick input then release it will continue in that direction until it loses its momentum and stops or is influenced by another force like wind or more stick input. Keep in mind it still has satellites in atti but just doesn't use them for flying. Just switch back to gps mode to start using sats again. Simple right?

 

[DrJoe]

So the gimbal camera doesn't affect the controller in phantom mode...what do you mean NAZA flight controller..i thought it was one in the same..thats question one....

I'll try and clear this up for you:
The "NAZA Flight Controller" is the flight controller board in the Phantom. It can be programmed to fly in two modes: Phantom Mode (default factory configuration) or NAZA mode (enables IOC use and flying in ATTI and manual mode. Also enables the right S1 switch to be set to trigger a RTH-return to home).

is there a home lock in phantom mode..i thought there was....reason i'd like to use NAZA is the orientation function that always lets the right stick pushed up made your drone go away and back come back to you...i find this the biggest problem in phantom mode...is phantom mode the same as ATTI?.

NAZA mode lets you use IOC (left switch S2). You are speaking about Home Lock flying in IOC mode, which needs NAZA mode enabled in the Assistant software to work. And no, Phantom Mode limits you to flying IOC off and GPS mode all the time. ATTI mode can fly IOC off or on (Home Lock/Course Lock). The big difference in ATTI flying is the Phantom "drifts". It doesn't use the GPS to hold its postion, it will drift with the wind. It also flys faster, is more responsive and can allow smoother video if used correctly.

I have not upgraded the software at all because i don't like the slow descent feature they added...and i don't fly near airports...so far so good...but i'd like to try out NAZA...but if Naza gets confused about home lock ect...is it safe for someone with 10 flights under their belt to switch to this..and please if anyone can or feels like they could answer i'd appreciate it..i know some of this stuff is in the manual...thanks

Is it safe? That depends on your comfort level. Label your transmitter S1 and S2 switches to help. In my opinion, the use of IOC can be helpful, but ATTI mode is a must in case of a problem. Manual mode is not for the faint of heart- be careful).

 

[Railhound]

Dr. Joe,

Great steps to help prevent a flyaway until DJI actuallly fixes the issue. To bad for the rest of us that read the manuals, watched the videos, downloaded all of the lastest firmware before flight and then expected the device to operate as advertised. Of course it doesn't but your steps help counteract the bugs in the logic.

For those thate want to get an understand of why flyaways are allmost sure to happen at some point if you don't follow Dr. Joe's steps (by the way flyaways still can occur since Dr. Joe's suggeswtions won't counteract all of the bugs but they will really help).

If you want to read about the details of the flyaway issues start here: http://www.djiguys.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3922&hilit=flyaway&start=15

Make no mistake until DJI fixes the issue(s), you will still have a probabilty of a flyaway but greatly reduced with Dr. Joe's procedures.

 

[Flying Cephlopod]

Don't all radio-controlled unmanned aerial vehicles have the potential to experience fly-away?

All we can do is reduce our risks.

 

[ToddSmi]

Nice list Joe - your advice seems sound to me.

Regarding the topic of prop guards, what do you guys think of this video? It's not conclusive what role the prop guards played in the crash, but in my view it seems hard to rule them out as being a contributing factor. FYI...the latter half of the video appears to be a slowed down version of the key events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vUncsN ... r_embedded

 

[ToThePoint]

I though i had one yesterday, but it wasn't.
As i was learning the features for the FPV with the video link and new tablet that i finally got working and testing the range limit for that video link i return the copter back when the battery was @ 40%. The remaining juice i use to just have fun near me or to test the RTH function and what it does. I do a test by turning the transmitter of. Indeed all worked fine, tryed what it does under 20m and also above the 20 m. It wasn't my first test. Actually before i did any maneuvering it test out that feature. Now the phantom runs on naza so i wanted to practice the new settings on S1. So i had some 20% left when it landed on the RTH. I still had juice left to do a other RTH but not that far away some 10m and 8m altitude. Turned off the transmitter, it whent into RTH, turned the transmitter on and S1 in atti. If the RTH screen whent away on the tablet i can't remember but the phantom just drifted away down wind and decending. I was surpriced and the first thing that popped up in the mind was " this is bad ". Did i pulled down on the left stick ? I guess so and there was a lot of wind. When it crashed and landed on its head in a field the was no damage and i could get it. When i was going to collect it it came to my mind that i maybe didn't put the S1 back into GPS mode. And after checking S1 on the transmitter it was indeed still on atti. How could i be so stupid not to member that simple action ? But it was a nice experience. Lucky i was recording that first flight on naza. But it seems that the telemetry isn't incorporated into the video. Have to dig into that.

Greetings
JP

 

[DrJoe]

Nice list Joe - your advice seems sound to me.

Regarding the topic of prop guards, what do you guys think of this video? It's not conclusive what role the prop guards played in the crash, but in my view it seems hard to rule them out as being a contributing factor. FYI...the latter half of the video appears to be a slowed down version of the key events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vUncsN ... r_embedded

First of all, the pilot has a gimbal twitch. not good. Second, in the beginning of the video, the string that goes around the prop guards is tight. Later, it's broken. That was likely causing the roll-overs, as this video was not indicative of VRS. That phantom could have a bad ESC or a bad motor too. Pick a cause.

 

[DrJoe]

I though i had one yesterday, but it wasn't.
Did i pulled down on the left stick ? I guess so and there was a lot of wind. When it crashed and landed on its head in a field the was no damage and i could get it. When i was going to collect it it came to my mind that i maybe didn't put the S1 back into GPS mode. And after checking S1 on the transmitter it was indeed still on atti. How could i be so stupid not to member that simple action ?
JP

I still make pilot errors, too. Yesterday, I though I was in GPS and switched down to Atti. Nope. Switched from Atti to manual (that's how I have my S1 switch configured). Phantom dropped like a stone and right out of LOS, since I was low. Lost video and control connection before I knew what happened. RTH self initiated and she came home at 60 feet. Cleared a big pine tree by inches while she was inbound. I switched back to ATTI and got control back. Phew!

Errors suck.

 

[CarlJ]

Thanks 17RW, for a thoughtful and intelligent reply. I guess I'm tiring of some folks presenting as fact their opinion on these things based on anecdotal evidence and/or personal bias. My guess is the verdict is out and likely to remain so.

I put them on, I take them off all the time, and have no more or less issue with VRS either way. Since opinion is fact now, the people that "claim" prop guards are causing VRS are too hot on the **** stick, fact! :lol:

And Rebelvis you could argue til the cows come home, but I don't think some of them would know empirical data if they tripped over it. You can tell by the way they continued to argue...

Thx for posting though, it's nice to know there is some sanity in the world.

 

[N017RW]

Thanks 17RW, for a thoughtful and intelligent reply. I guess I'm tiring of some folks presenting as fact their opinion on these things based on anecdotal evidence and/or personal bias. My guess is the verdict is out and likely to remain so.

I put them on, I take them off all the time, and have no more or less issue with VRS either way. Since opinion is fact now, the people that "claim" prop guards are causing VRS are too hot on the **** stick, fact! :lol:

And Rebelvis you could argue til the cows come home, but I don't think some of them would know empirical data if they tripped over it. You can tell by the way they continued to argue...

Thx for posting though, it's nice to know there is some sanity in the world.

Nothing wrong with arguing.
It's the basis of debate.

ar·gue
[ahr-gyoo]
verb (used without object), ar·gued, ar·gu·ing.
1.- to present reasons for or against a thing: He argued in favor of prop guards.

Participation is voluntary.

 

[ToThePoint]

@Dr Joe

LMAO, you had a lucky day.
I tested live video range today. As i got across the road and clearing just some tree's obvious the control failed out. But the live video still worked so i saw the return home screen. Prepared the transceiver ( off and on atti ) and the moment it cleared the treetops so i had it back in sight switched on the transceiver watching the video link to see if the returning home screen disappeared and when it did back on GPS. I guess its hammered in my brain now LOL.

JP

 

[CarlJ]

Nothing wrong with arguing.
It's the basis of debate.

ar·gue
[ahr-gyoo]
verb (used without object), ar·gued, ar·gu·ing.
1.- to present reasons for or against a thing: He argued in favor of prop guards.

Participation is voluntary.

EVERYONE is giving me English lessons today, I must really suck.

I guess my issue with the debate is the denial of the one fact, that we have no facts, should be the basis for telling other hobbyist that they shouldn't use prop guards. It has been my observation, anecdotal though it may be, that option varies on the effects of guards in flight. Without question they do add surface area, the effects of which could exacerbate VRS, but the truth is that's just conjecture.

Many of us use prop guards for a variety of reasons with no ill effects.