Folding props

[Dronason]

The temperature does worry me a bit, I know digital cameras I've taken up there don't last as long if I leave it sitting in my bag. Been considering various options, from having it in a chest pocket if not too big, to hand warmers in the camera bag, to maybe even sticking it in a black dry-bag on the outside to hopefully stay warm in the sun. Will have a play around when I get the chance and will be sure to make a thread about what I find works best.

It will be for sure less than 20 minutes flight because of battery, air density with the altitude and time for the initialisation. Probably you will want to calibrate the IMU really at very low temperature so it speed-up the initialisation. GL

 

[Meta4]

Then how do folding props work fine on other quadcopters? If it's something that isn't necessary for flight it annoys me it can't be disabled on the phantoms.

Folding props work fine on quadcopters designed and built to use folding props.
You have pushed yourself into a corner be deciding that fitting props is a big issue and that you must have folding props that stay on the Phantom.
To those of us that actually use Phantoms that just sounds silly.
There are several real issues you will face and putting regular props on won't even rate in the top 10.
Rather than working from your imagination of what the issues are, you'd be better off getting a Phantom or go flying with someone that does to experience first hand what will and what won't be an issue.
There is a steep learning curve to get a grasp of all the things that can go wrong flying a Phantom and learning strategies to ensure they don't.
The environment you are intending to fly are unforgiving.
Make sure you get plenty of experience before you head off.
The Phantom is ready-to-fly out of the box but that doesn't mean the operator is too.

 

[Dheorl]

Folding props work fine on quadcopters designed and built to use folding props.
You have pushed yourself into a corner be deciding that fitting props is a big issue and that you must have folding props that stay on the Phantom.
To those of us that actually use Phantoms that just sounds silly.
There are several real issues you will face and putting regular props on won't even rate in the top 10.
Rather than working from your imagination of what the issues are, you'd be better off getting a Phantom or go flying with someone that does to experience first hand what will and what won't be an issue.
There is a steep learning curve to get a grasp of all the things that can go wrong flying a Phantom and learning strategies to ensure they don't.
The environment you are intending to fly are unforgiving.
Make sure you get plenty of experience before you head off.
The Phantom is ready-to-fly out of the box but that doesn't mean the operator is too.

In what way do these folding quadcopters differ then? Some people are saying it's a braking issue, others are saying it's not. I'm just keen to learn.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pushed myself into a corner". I know how much space I have in my pack, I know what my dexterity is like with gloves on and I've practised taking the props on and off a phantom. For me the three aren't particularly compatible. I'm not sure why everyone is being so aggressive about this fact.

I understand the environment is unforgiving, hence I'm buying a drone now when I won't actually be in said environment till next spring at the earliest. I live in the middle of hundreds of acres of farm-land so practise before then shouldn't be an issue. Yes, I could go out and buy a phantom right now and just play with it, but buying something for a specific purpose without first considering potential problems that it might not be able to overcome just seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[Reed L]

Basically, you've backed yourself into a corner by first wanting folding props for quick access. Then after the fact, you have now stated that it will be packed into a backpack and surrounded by climbing, camping, ropes, and all kinds of gear. Leaving props on in your pack surrounded by gear won't give you that quick access ever. So the extra 30 seconds to spin the props on really is not an issue anymore because you have no reason to have any props, folding or not, left on to be crunched inside of a backpack. In other words, your in the corner, and have now packed yourself in with all of your gear... And the pack will need to be untied, then unpacked to get it out safe enough to not damage the gimbal. Now you need to be worrying about the camera and gimbal. Folding props are not the issue. Your answer from everyone here is that they don't work well. Buy them, try them, then decide for yourself. I looked hard at all of them and spent hours researching folding props of all kinds. They're not worth the money to me and that was my final opinion after doing the research and looking at them in person.

 

[Dheorl]

I'm planning on putting it in a padded case inside a pack with a back panel opening. The bag can stay attached to me, swivelled round on the hip-belt and the drone accessed from underneath all my gear without having to unpack it all. I've done the same with standard camera gear and access really isn't an issue. Do you genuinely think I haven't thought about this? Props, with my dexterity wearing gloves, will take longer than 30 seconds to spin on, and it's just one more thing I have to worry about slipping out of my hands and falling down a crevasse.

I don't understand why the answer from everyone here is they don't work well, as I already stated I've read this before. I very specifically stated that I've read they're not advised, but if you have to use them are there any that are recommended. Largely what I've been met with is varying levels of aggression. I guess I should expect no less when I ask a perfectly innocent question on an online forum, especially one to do with anything technological.

 

[Reed L]

I very specifically stated that I've read they're not advised, but if you have to use them are there any that are recommended. Largely what I've been met with is varying levels of aggression.

The answers are not aggression, they're just "No". None are recommended. Plain and simple... with no aggression, just a simple answer - Nope... lol You may really want to find somebody to say yes but.... No

 

[Dheorl]

Clearly you and me have different definitions of aggression. Answers such as yours, where you haven't addressed the actual question in any way, simply treated me like an idiot and listed every way in which you think I'm wrong, serves no purpose but to toot your own horn and annoy me.

 

[Mako79]

Avoid the folding props.

I haven't tried on my P3A and I will not either considering that the active braking system is known to lose props (this was happening with the inspires - the fix was to use prop locks).

I have the triblades on my P2 and they offer no benefit. The problem is that the way the hub is constructed. You have screws to tighten the each of the blade. If you tighten too much, the blades wont fold out and self balance. If you keep it too loose, it will fall off. You need to inspect each screw for tightness on each flight. That's 3x4 screws you need to check before taking off and this becomes time consuming and rather pointless for quick take off.
Another is the weight. They are quite heavy compared to the OEM DJI props. I had to increase my gains to stop the phantom from wobbling or losing altitude.
Another is the pitch of the blade. Some manufacturers think just by copying the blade will just work. This is wrong especially if you don't factor in another blade. Too many blades can decrease lift (RPM dependant).

The only benefit I saw in them was they looked cool.

You are better just to let the phantom warm up find its GPS and attach the props on.

 

[Reed L]

Clearly you and me have different definitions of aggression. Answers such as yours, where you haven't addressed the actual question in any way, simply treated me like an idiot and listed every way in which you think I'm wrong, serves no purpose but to toot your own horn and annoy me.

I don't mean to annoy so I'll start by re-reading your first post. -

I'm looking at getting a P3, either advanced or professional. Haven't quite decided yet but if you'd like to weigh in on that conundrum you're welcome. Looking at the price at SLR hut it seems silly to not go for the P, but if I were to get it from a local seller the larger price difference makes the decision a lot harder.

Anyway, on to the main question. I'd very much like to get folding props for whichever I buy. I want a drone to take hiking/mountaineering with me, and hence it needs to be kept safe inside my pack (i.e. Without props attached) but must be ready for flight as fast as possible whilst wearing gloves (and therefore not wanting to fiddle any more than necessary).

I know there are a fair number of threads around regarding folding props, and most seem to be full of comments stating "don't use them" without any actual discussion. So on the assumption that I have to use them, which would anyone recommend?

Ok I read it again and again, nope, there are no folding props as far as brands to recommend by me one over the other.
Is there anyone else that can help him? I know of 2 brands and they look almost the same and I wouldn't recommend either of them myself.

Foldable Props for the DJI Phantom from Infinity Hobby - RC Groups

The Future of Propeller Technology

Foldable propellers

Search Results - Search Results for Query: folding props | DJI Phantom Drone Forum

 

[GunnyPapa]

I'm looking at getting a P3, either advanced or professional. Haven't quite decided yet but if you'd like to weigh in on that conundrum you're welcome. Looking at the price at SLR hut it seems silly to not go for the P, but if I were to get it from a local seller the larger price difference makes the decision a lot harder.

Anyway, on to the main question. I'd very much like to get folding props for whichever I buy. I want a drone to take hiking/mountaineering with me, and hence it needs to be kept safe inside my pack (i.e. Without props attached) but must be ready for flight as fast as possible whilst wearing gloves (and therefore not wanting to fiddle any more than necessary).

I know there are a fair number of threads around regarding folding props, and most seem to be full of comments stating "don't use them" without any actual discussion. So on the assumption that I have to use them, which would anyone recommend?

The reason that not using make folding props is the same reason they don't make folding props on any aircraft even real ones. If your concerned about space most or shall I say everyone takes the props off when humping out to the field.

 

[HWCM]

If that was the case, DJI wouldn't have had to develop the composite hubs needed for the P3 series.

Phantoms do not have active motor braking, not true motor braking like in a 250 racing quad or a 3D quad where changing the quads position actually stops the motors, this feature is there to have the quad descend at a faster rate to go under or over an obstacle. Go to you tube and watch some videos of an active braking ESC/motor in action. The phantom has no need for this. When DJI says braking in the settings, it is referring to how fast the quad stops after the sticks are released to try and maintain its current position (position hold) Dji uses simple language for people who think they know everything because they bought a Phantom and spend all day on a forum. All of my APM, Pixhawk and 250 Naze quads do this. They do not have active braking but will hold the position just like the phantom and they definitely do not have active braking ESCs, I built them so I would know.

 

[WetDog]

There seem to be plenty of cases of people happily launching and landing drones from their hands. It doesn't worry me much. The thought of setting it down on the sheet ice of a glacier just to see if slide of down a 100m crevass makes launching it from, and landing it in, my hands, preferable.

As previously asked, is there any way to disable this motor breaking? Clearly some quads, including those setup with DJI gear, happily fly with folding props. This will be used for sedate cinematic footage in the open mountains, so rapid change of direction is not much of a worry for me.

Yes, there is no breaking in ATTI mode. Photographers often use that to allow the P3 to glide to a stop with the camera running. It's a nice effect.

Of course, trying to fly ATTI mode whilst perched on the side of a mountain in crampons sounds like a good way to spend $1000 right quick. Maybe you want a different UAV like a Lily or the silly egg shaped thingy.

 

[Vertigo]

About the cold batteries, its a very valid point and you will want to bring something like this:
Turnigy Programmable Lipo Battery Warmer Bag (12v DC)

I have one, and just tried, you can fit 2 phantom batteries in there. You can power it with a regular lipo. Hobbykings multistar series of batteries would be an excellent fit (their low C rating is fine for this, and they are remarkably small and light for their capacity).

As for the props saga; maybe you should consider an alternative. In particular, a bebop 2. Its much, much smaller, yet has about the same endurance. Yes, its video quality is inferior, but the difference is especially large when flying or panning around quickly (which you wouldnt) and when filming things with fine detail like trees and brushes, which you may not have there, not sure. It should do snowy mountains fairly well. Here is something to give you an idea what to expect:

just noticed thats a bebop 1, but they have the same camera.
If thats good enough for you, to control the bebop, you dont want to pack the huge skycontroller, and a phone or tablet just dont have enough range, so you'll want a mini router (xiaomi youth is perfect and usb powered) and possibly a bluetooth game controller because operating a touch screen with gloves on a mountain is a non starter. Thinking about it, even a game controller might be tricky.

 

[happydays]

If you 'have' to keep your gloves on (if I read that correctly about four pages ago) then how will you possibly access the screen to open the app, or start recording, or to enter the different modes that may be necessary for use?

Sorry to say, but I think this whole thread is a bit pointless. If you are so handicapped by the fact that you have to keep the gear in a backpack, have to have a shed load of additional equipment so the weight has to be kept to a minimum, and have to keep gloves on so rendering putting on the standard props (which are perfect for the phantom) impossible, never mind the affect of the cold weather on the battery, then I feel the mission is doomed from the start. Also, (from what I can see) you'll have to hand launch and hand catch (no problem normally) but won't it be windy up there too? Hand catching in a strong wind is not the simplest task. Especially with thick gloves on...

However, I, like most other posters on this thread, look forward to seeing the footage. I remember about two and a half years ago, a guy who was going into the arctic circle to film and came on here to ask for advice on what to be wary of. He never came back to the forum which led me to believe that the mission was not a success. In fact, I wonder if he came back from the mission?

 

[N017RW]

Dehorl, you are free to do as

Phantoms do not have active motor braking, not true motor braking like in a 250 racing quad or a 3D quad where changing the quads position actually stops the motors, this feature is there to have the quad descend at a faster rate to go under or over an obstacle. Go to you tube and watch some videos of an active braking ESC/motor in action. The phantom has no need for this. When DJI says braking in the settings, it is referring to how fast the quad stops after the sticks are released to try and maintain its current position (position hold) Dji uses simple language for people who think they know everything because they bought a Phantom and spend all day on a forum. All of my APM, Pixhawk and 250 Naze quads do this. They do not have active braking but will hold the position just like the phantom and they definitely do not have active braking ESCs, I built them so I would know.

You should read post #29. I imagine the extent of the AB may vary as well as the techniques used. Not sure
why folks want to argue such a thing in the face of the manufacturer's own publication.

 

[Dheorl]

I don't mean to annoy so I'll start by re-reading your first post. -


Ok I read it again and again, nope, there are no folding props as far as brands to recommend by me one over the other.
Is there anyone else that can help him? I know of 2 brands and they look almost the same and I wouldn't recommend either of them myself.

I'm not sure how the answer to "which would you recommend?" could be "nope" or any variation thereof, but thanks for at least trying to not be demeaning. It's appreciated.

 

[Dheorl]

The reason that not using make folding props is the same reason they don't make folding props on any aircraft even real ones. If your concerned about space most or shall I say everyone takes the props off when humping out to the field.

You're right

Not a single real aircraft

Has folding blades

 

[Dheorl]

About the cold batteries, its a very valid point and you will want to bring something like this:
Turnigy Programmable Lipo Battery Warmer Bag (12v DC)

I have one, and just tried, you can fit 2 phantom batteries in there. You can power it with a regular lipo. Hobbykings multistar series of batteries would be an excellent fit (their low C rating is fine for this, and they are remarkably small and light for their capacity).

As for the props saga; maybe you should consider an alternative. In particular, a bebop 2. Its much, much smaller, yet has about the same endurance. Yes, its video quality is inferior, but the difference is especially large when flying or panning around quickly (which you wouldnt) and when filming things with fine detail like trees and brushes, which you may not have there, not sure. It should do snowy mountains fairly well. Here is something to give you an idea what to expect:

just noticed thats a bebop 1, but they have the same camera.
If thats good enough for you, to control the bebop, you dont want to pack the huge skycontroller, and a phone or tablet just dont have enough range, so you'll want a mini router (xiaomi youth is perfect and usb powered) and possibly a bluetooth game controller because operating a touch screen with gloves on a mountain is a non starter. Thinking about it, even a game controller might be tricky.

Thanks, the recommendations are appreciated. The ability to better direct the camera is needed though, and as mentioned I'll be cutting the footage together with that from GoPros and my GH3. I'm not sure how well the bebop will fare in that mix. Does look like a fun little package though, and might at some point consider one more for use as a toy when out and about.

The GDU Byrd is also one I've looked at, but people who've tried it really don't seem to view it that favourably. I wish the Typhoon H was just a tad smaller as well. The folding arms look to provide a fairly neat package, and the redundancy would be nice in an environment where if it goes down there's little chance of recovery. Even like the look of the all in one controller. Shame it's just a tad too big.

The battery bag looks very interesting, and looks designed to solve the exact problems I'm worried about. Sure easier than using chemical hand warmers. Thanks for the link.

 

[Dheorl]

If you 'have' to keep your gloves on (if I read that correctly about four pages ago) then how will you possibly access the screen to open the app, or start recording, or to enter the different modes that may be necessary for use?

Sorry to say, but I think this whole thread is a bit pointless. If you are so handicapped by the fact that you have to keep the gear in a backpack, have to have a shed load of additional equipment so the weight has to be kept to a minimum, and have to keep gloves on so rendering putting on the standard props (which are perfect for the phantom) impossible, never mind the affect of the cold weather on the battery, then I feel the mission is doomed from the start. Also, (from what I can see) you'll have to hand launch and hand catch (no problem normally) but won't it be windy up there too? Hand catching in a strong wind is not the simplest task. Especially with thick gloves on...

However, I, like most other posters on this thread, look forward to seeing the footage. I remember about two and a half years ago, a guy who was going into the arctic circle to film and came on here to ask for advice on what to be wary of. He never came back to the forum which led me to believe that the mission was not a success. In fact, I wonder if he came back from the mission?

There's various materials already used in gloves for touch screens. Shouldn't be hard to stick a bit to the finger and thumb of my mountaineering gloves. Due to construction they come to two quite small points that have enable quite dexterous manipulation of pressure based screens in the past. Almost like having a stumpy stylus on the end of your finger

It's not too windy tbh, and the glaciers, which are the highest point I'm likely to film, normally have fairly consistent winds with little in the way of gusting or directional changes. I'll try and use my best judgement when it comes to conditions, as I always do in the high mountains. At least with thick gloves on if I fail a hand catch all I'll be loosing is my drone and not my fingers

If I manage to overcome the various problems I'll definitely post back here with what solutions work best, and any footage I've managed to get. Don't hold your breath though, as based on current timelines the earliest I'll have finished footage will likely be sometime next autumn. Just trying to do the sensible thing and get prepared and start practising with my equipment of choice ASAP.

 

[BigAl07]

Dheorl whatever you decide to use I sincerely hope you come back and share the final product here. It sounds like a LOT of fun (although a lot of work too) but could result in an AMAZING final product. I'd very much like to see it when complete. Will you be posting it online?