80 to 90% battery level takeoff is triggering outrage

I don't wanna stir the pot but **** here goes


My battery was at 100 or **** near when I took off flew around for 10-12 min batt level at 50 %yhen drop out the sky from about 15 ft . P3p and four batteries less than a wk old. Discharge at the default 10 days. At Dji support now waiting on it to be repaired and shipped back to me. At less than a wk old , I flew my bird daily and recharged to full every time. Maybe just a placebo


Due note new style motor and the day my quad crashed I got the update to 1.06 pop up when entering the app

Do you have the DAT file of the crashed flight? There are some members here that can get a lot of information out of that DAT file will be able to tell you exactly what the % battery is. One of the more common issues is that the % read is faulty.
 
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HI,
to me there's a difference in voltage drops between taking off easy hovering at 10 feet for a while, descending easy and landing, as opposed to take off full throttle, flying full throttle for the same time, working the speed hard and fast and then landing. If you measured the voltage drops thru time on both flights, Im under the impression that the hard flight would show higher drops. When you have a full battery, with 100% of milliamp hours charged, the deeper drop doesnt matter, when you battery depletes and the static voltage is lower and closer to critical, any great load will drop the volts close to or below the critical stage... Ex. I just saw an RC heli do this at the local field. at the end of flight we commented how powerful the motor was, the pilot decided to show us the power by ascending full throttle. Because he was close to the ground the battery didn't recover in time and he had a very hard landing. I am not an elec engineer, but this is how I understand how ohms law works. Hitec also cautions users to design the batt source so a catastrophic voltage drop doesnt cause a crash. They even design there recvers so you can tap off of the higher votage tap direct from the batts (instead of the ESC) Which I think is a good design... (prob. from experience ;-)
Tons of info here. I need to understand it fully before I can comment on it :)
 
When i studied electonics, my head would spin uncontrolably often. [emoji4]. Troybuilt.com has a lot of battery info if ur interested.
 
To further any ideas for solutions to the "holy crap" battery issue, i should give you some perspective on my habbits with batts. I come from the old days of ni-cad batt tech. So Iv been thru a bunch of new tech in the batt area. Currently with my Li-ions in my fixed wing (that i would not want to crash) this is what I do. Full charge day before always. Never fly without a top off.(putting in a short charge to top off) After flights, immediately check with multi-meter to confirm my Hitec A9 voltage telemetry is correct. If you wait a couple of minutes before checking the batts will "come back" closer to static charge voltage and your reading will not be correct. Before next flight check with 1amp load, confirm volts above acceptable level for batt pack. For initial flight test with a new plane, you would fly 1 flight, charger batt pack to see how many milliamps were put back in pack. This is your baseline for how many flights can be safely flown. We would fly about 40% out of the pack, then recharge. Knowing how many milliamps are used in a flight allows you to compute how many safe flights are possible before recharge.(because the pack has a milliamp rating like 2000mah or 3000mah) We also watch volts. On a 2C li-ion pack (2 cells, 7.4V) No fly is at 7.2V with a 1amp load. Time to recharge.
Now the batt system on the p3 is obviously diff than this. (the tech is Li-Poly and the charger is built in) and it doesnt allow a lot of these checks. But with the onscreen info and good charge habits, it should be foolproof. The thing Im concerned with is, if people are using and understand batt behavior appropriately and having crashes, that could be a design problem. Which is freakin me a bit. thots? Comments? Help?

Any electrical engineers in here??
 
So... why are you here?

As far as details tied to the issue. All you have to do is go back and read the threads related to them. Sure it'll take some time, but once you are willing to spend the time, sometimes you see a pattern emerging. So staying "on topic", there are plenty of threads out there. Plenty of people posting their DAT files. And there is a pattern. Go dig it up for yourself so you don't have to listen to the old-timer.

Funny. I had a situation and supplied reliable battery data. No one on here could give me an answer as to why my bird decided to auto land due to a critical battery trigger hidden somewhere.

..which goes against what most folk on here are spilling out. Sorry if I don't hop onto the band wagon and just assume the guy posting above, below, left or right of me actually know's what he's talking about or simply repeating in his own words what someone else in his same shoes just did earlier in time! Lots of skewed information out there. Gotta keep an open mind and build your own case.

As to why I'm here - there is good information on here. Not debating that at all. How credible and reliable the information is always to be taken with a grain of salt. This isn't the first/last forum I'm a member of. Been on the forums for a decade now and learned a LONG time ago to not always believe what I read without solid proof.

;)
 
That's pretty interesting. Try this next time to mimic the "failure" condition.

1. Do what you do and leave the battery around until auto-discharge kicks in a day or two. And verify that your battery is only partially charged (to prove your point).

2. If you can roll your firmware back to pre 1.06 that would prove you are right. Supposedly the firmware issue relating to the battery is fixed in the latest firmware. So testing it with 1.06 firmware wouldn't be conclusive as it could have been the firmware fix that did its job.

3. Then take your quad out for some hard flying like moving forward and ascending at the same time at top speed until you reach 400 AGL. Then maybe some more hard flying like fast forward to reach maximum speed and then full reverse a few times.

If you do three above, please post your DAT file so people can do an analysis to see how the quad is behaving.

Here's the common denominator from most of the "P3 drop out of the sky".

1. battery wasn't freshly charged prior flight and may have already entered auto discharge state, but almost always the instrumentation reads a good amount of charge left (60% or more).

2. Not running on the latest 1.06 firmware which supposed to have fixed the battery logic issue.

3. Took the quad for some hard flying that pulls a lot of juice causing the battery to shut itself down due to under voltage.

I'm not sure what software version I'm currently running. Last time I updated it was in... august? I think it was right before or after my trip to the oregon coast in August.

I fly hard and fast too :) One of my favorite tricks is spinning left or right and pedal to the metal straight up. To give an example of my flying style.. Been doing these fun type flies dating back to when I got my P2V+. I fly my drone for part fun/part photo & video.
 
I am going to repeat this again:

There are two very simple ways to avoid this problem:
  1. Update to the latest firmware. It's not 100% certain it is fixed but DJI indicated they made changes to address it.
  2. Do not fly on partially charged batteries that have been sitting for a long period (e.g. > one day).
Note: It is OK to fly on partially charged batteries if you use them right away. On set, we take off, shoot and land multiple times on one battery. Not a problem.

All you guys should listen to Ianwood, his advice will solve your problems and bring back your confidence in your Phantom 3 over time.

I just got back from CES where I had two separate conversations with knowledgeable DJI employees, one from each of their two booths at the show. Each of their booths had one technical person there, and I made it a point to seek out that person. I asked for the most knowledgeable person to discuss Phantom 3 firmware. Below is what I learned, and this info was echoed by both employees in these separate conversations.

Regarding reports of sudden power loss during flight, battery shut downs are only a problem with the 1.5 firmware, period. 1.4 did not have the problem, nor any firmware before 1.4. It's important to know 1.6 solved this critical problem. That's why 1.5 was replaced so quickly with 1.6. So if you're using 1.5, DON'T FLY again until you either go back to 1.4, or move up to 1.6. After these conversations I deem 1.5 as the kiss of death, so just don't fly it!

The problem is solely in the 1.5 Phantom firmware, NOT the battery firmware. The 1.5 Phantom firmware was misreading the voltage levels from the battery, simply as that. However the display was showing the right voltage and % level. This misreading of the battery below 3.0V by the firmware is what triggered the battery protection which shut down the motors. Again, this was not a problem in the battery firmware, it was solely a Phantom firmware problem. If you recall there was no battery update in 1.5, however the shutdown problems started with 1.5, which supports the the notion that the Phantom 1.5 firmware is what started this issue. In 1.5, although you may see 60% battery level in your display, and you really do have 60% battery (a true reading), the firmware does not see that level, it mistakenly sees a lower voltage. The firmware is flawed, way off. It misinterpreted battery level, lower than reality, hence battery protection kicks in and turns off the power when your battery gauge says it's at 40 to 60%, then falling from the sky. Not good.

Normally when you land at 20% your batteries are not close to 3.0 V, I think the batteries read somewhere around 3.3V - 3.4V if I recall right. In 1.5 the firmware, when you see a reasonable battery level (I'll use 50 or 60% as an example), the firm sees 3.0V, which isn't reality, a bogus reading. Yes, this is a major error in battery level detection in 1.5 FW, one that will cost DJI a fair amount in warranty claims, I would assume. In this particular case, I can see why DJI would be motivated to MANDATE getting off 1.5, given the catastrophic consequences being reported. Anyone flying 1.5 is on thin ice, IMHO.

So what's the battery firmware update for in 1.6? This new battery firmware is where the acceleration decrease and vertical speed decreases comes from. They put a governor to limit maximum current draw. Sudden high current drain can fluctuate voltage on a low battery which might contribute to a problem if someone ran the battery down to 10% and then gave it full throttle, instead of babying the throttle. 1.6 firmware should help with flight times for anyone that has a habit of full throttle flying. It's my opinion that DJI didn't have to put a governor in the battery since they fixed the root problem in the Phantom 1.5 firmware, by releasing 1.6. Given what I learned, I believe the 1.4 battery firmware should work fine with 1.6 Phantom firmware, and you'll have your power back, and the drifting will be fixed too from the new 1.6 Phantom firmware (which was common complaint in 1.4 Phantom firmware). I particularly don't like losing the acceleration and vertical speed I use to have with 1.4 (I'm spoiled), so I'm going to do an experiment using 1.4 battery firmware with my 1.6 Phantom firmware and report back, to prove this point. I happen to have one battery with 1.4 firmware that I'm going to use for a quick test. All my other 4 batteries have 1.6 firmware.

The Phantom 1.6 firmware definitely fixes the battery shutdown issues. Nobody has has reported a problem to DJI with 1.6 , specifically with battery shutdown being an issue. With 1.6 you can fly partial discharge batteries like you use to do with 1.4 with confidence, just land before 20% for good margin and you'll be fine.

The auto-discharging of the battery also has nothing to do with this battery shutdown issue. If your battery goes into auto-discharge and you power up the craft with it, the discharging automatically stops. The Phantom firmware knows nothing about the discharge routine, it only reads the voltage at power up (correctly now with 1.6) and reports this to your screen. With 1.6, what the Phantom firmware sees as the voltage is now the same as what you see on the screen as the voltage, which is also interpolated into percentage left on the charge.

Cold weather has nothing to do with the battery shut down problem, however cold batteries will reduce your flight time, which is logical because Li-Po's are known to perform worse when cold, typically 10-15% less flight time. It is a good idea to keep the batteries warm before launch to maximize flight times, however a cold battery isn't a factor in battery shutdown, the 1.5 firmware was the sole cause, simply from misinterpreting the "true voltage" of the battery.

On a related subject...... regarding going back to 1.4 from 1.6, one for these tech guys (on this subject I didn't verify with the other guy) said you can go back to 1.4, however you have to go back to 1.5 first. Then after you have 1.5 loaded successfully you can go back to 1.4. He said this would work. That does not mean you can go back to 1.32 after you get to 1.4. Then he said try it if you feel compelled, he wasn't 100% sure about 1.32, he said it might work, but was pretty sure it won't.

FYI, going back to 1.32 I think you lose way-points, POI, and Follow me, etc. Those important features (Important to some) came in 1.4, if I remember correctly. For most people I don't think you'll want to lose these features. I realize 1.4 had the drifting issue, but I was able to tolerate that, however I don't get much wind here in So. Calif. That "drift fix" could be more important to others, and that's fixed in 1.6.

DON'T USE 1.5 !
 
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I'm not sure what software version I'm currently running. Last time I updated it was in... august? I think it was right before or after my trip to the oregon coast in August.

I fly hard and fast too :) One of my favorite tricks is spinning left or right and pedal to the metal straight up. To give an example of my flying style.. Been doing these fun type flies dating back to when I got my P2V+. I fly my drone for part fun/part photo & video.

I'll quote someone who just said a tad earlier "how credible and reliable the information is always to be taken with a grain of salt". Maybe a flight log might bolster credibility. As said, "to not always believe what I read without solid proof". :)
 
I'll quote someone who just said a tad earlier "how credible and reliable the information is always to be taken with a grain of salt". Maybe a flight log might bolster credibility. As said, "to not always believe what I read without solid proof". :)

A flight log of what?

I'm really unsure what your argument is at this point. You're trying to tell me that all flights are equal and a simple flight log from one flight = the way it is and will be??

I don't think you seem to understand just how many variables there are to each flight..
 
My advice is to fully charge the night before your excursion. Carry a car charger also.

No problem using a 3rd party docking station and car charger. Many on eBay. I have a couple of choices, both work.

I will be testing a solar battery charging solution shortly.
 
My advice is to fully charge the night before your excursion. Carry a car charger also.

No problem using a 3rd party docking station and car charger. Many on eBay. I have a couple of choices, both work.

I will be testing a solar battery charging solution shortly.


I was using 1.5 and just now upgraded to 1.6 after John Locke's report from CES. What he says sounds highly credible to me.
 
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All you guys should listen to Ianwood, his advice will solve your problems and bring back your confidence in your Phantom 3 over time.

I just got back from CES where I had two separate conversations with knowledgeable DJI employees, one from each of their two booths at the show. Each of their booths had one technical person there, and I made it a point to seek out that person. I asked for the most knowledgeable person to discuss Phantom 3 firmware. Below is what I learned, and this info was echoed by both employees in these separate conversations.

Regarding reports of sudden power loss during flight, battery shut downs are only a problem with the 1.5 firmware, period. 1.4 did not have the problem, nor any firmware before 1.4. It's important to know 1.6 solved this critical problem. That's why 1.5 was replaced so quickly with 1.6. So if you're using 1.5, DON'T FLY again until you either go back to 1.4, or move up to 1.6. After these conversations I deem 1.5 as the kiss of death, so just don't fly it!

The problem is solely in the 1.5 Phantom firmware, NOT the battery firmware. The 1.5 Phantom firmware was misreading the voltage levels from the battery, simply as that. However the display was showing the right voltage and % level. This misreading of the battery below 3.0V by the firmware is what triggered the battery protection which shut down the motors. Again, this was not a problem in the battery firmware, it was solely a Phantom firmware problem. If you recall there was no battery update in 1.5, however the shutdown problems started with 1.5, which supports the the notion that the Phantom 1.5 firmware is what started this issue. In 1.5, although you may see 60% battery level in your display, and you really do have 60% battery (a true reading), the firmware does not see that level, it mistakenly sees a lower voltage. The firmware is flawed, way off. It misinterpreted battery level, lower than reality, hence battery protection kicks in and turns off the power when your battery gauge says it's at 40 to 60%, then falling from the sky. Not good.

Normally when you land at 20% your batteries are not close to 3.0 V, I think the batteries read somewhere around 3.3V - 3.4V if I recall right. In 1.5 the firmware, when you see a reasonable battery level (I'll use 50 or 60% as an example), the firm sees 3.0V, which isn't reality, a bogus reading. Yes, this is a major error in battery level detection in 1.5 FW, one that will cost DJI a fair amount in warranty claims, I would assume. In this particular case, I can see why DJI would be motivated to MANDATE getting off 1.5, given the catastrophic consequences being reported. Anyone flying 1.5 is on thin ice, IMHO.

So what's the battery firmware update for in 1.6? This new battery firmware is where the acceleration decrease and vertical speed decreases comes from. They put a governor to limit maximum current draw. Sudden high current drain can fluctuate voltage on a low battery which might contribute to a problem if someone ran the battery down to 10% and then gave it full throttle, instead of babying the throttle. 1.6 firmware should help with flight times for anyone that has a habit of full throttle flying. It's my opinion that DJI didn't have to put a governor in the battery since they fixed the root problem in the Phantom 1.5 firmware, by releasing 1.6. Given what I learned, I believe the 1.4 battery firmware should work fine with 1.6 Phantom firmware, and you'll have your power back, and the drifting will be fixed too from the new 1.6 Phantom firmware (which was common complaint in 1.4 Phantom firmware). I particularly don't like losing the acceleration and vertical speed I use to have with 1.4 (I'm spoiled), so I'm going to do an experiment using 1.4 battery firmware with my 1.6 Phantom firmware and report back, to prove this point. I happen to have one battery with 1.4 firmware that I'm going to use for a quick test. All my other 4 batteries have 1.6 firmware.

The Phantom 1.6 firmware definitely fixes the battery shutdown issues. Nobody has has reported a problem to DJI with 1.6 , specifically with battery shutdown being an issue. With 1.6 you can fly partial discharge batteries like you use to do with 1.4 with confidence, just land before 20% for good margin and you'll be fine.

The auto-discharging of the battery also has nothing to do with this battery shutdown issue. If your battery goes into auto-discharge and you power up the craft with it, the discharging automatically stops. The Phantom firmware knows nothing about the discharge routine, it only reads the voltage at power up (correctly now with 1.6) and reports this to your screen. With 1.6, what the Phantom firmware sees as the voltage is now the same as what you see on the screen as the voltage, which is also interpolated into percentage left on the charge.

Cold weather has nothing to do with the battery shut down problem, however cold batteries will reduce your flight time, which is logical because Li-Po's are known to perform worse when cold, typically 10-15% less flight time. It is a good idea to keep the batteries warm before launch to maximize flight times, however a cold battery isn't a factor in battery shutdown, the 1.5 firmware was the sole cause, simply from misinterpreting the "true voltage" of the battery.

On a related subject...... regarding going back to 1.4 from 1.6, one for these tech guys (on this subject I didn't verify with the other guy) said you can go back to 1.4, however you have to go back to 1.5 first. Then after you have 1.5 loaded successfully you can go back to 1.4. He said this would work. That does not mean you can go back to 1.32 after you get to 1.4. Then he said try it if you feel compelled, he wasn't 100% sure about 1.32, he said it might work, but was pretty sure it won't.

FYI, going back to 1.32 I think you lose way-points, POI, and Follow me, etc. Those important features (Important to some) came in 1.4, if I remember correctly. For most people I don't think you'll want to lose these features. I realize 1.4 had the drifting issue, but I was able to tolerate that, however I don't get much wind here in So. Calif. That "drift fix" could be more important to others, and that's fixed in 1.6.

DON'T USE 1.5 !


Sounds legit. Thanks a ton for the info. My battery failure happened at FW 1.5, so it makes complete sense to me. Also thanks for confirming the speed reduction. I knew DJI throttled it back but there are some that swear it is the same as before.
 
I was using 1.5 and just now upgraded to 1.6 after John Locke's report from CES. What he says sounds highly credible to me.

Yep, I believe that. Lot's have complained about 1.5 being the problem. I haven't been past 1.4 and currently sitting sweet and stable on 1.3.20. I will stay at 1.4 or lower at least until there is clarity with the reported performance throttling and GEO fencing system.
 
If FW 1.5 is faulty, DJI should immediately take it off their web site. I see DJI has removed FW 1.4, and not 1.5 for the reasons best known to them.
 
If FW 1.5 is faulty, DJI should immediately take it off their web site. I see DJI has removed FW 1.4, and not 1.5 for the reasons best known to them.
One of the guys I spoke to at CES said it's possible to go back to 1.4 from 1.6, however you have to go back to 1.5 then back to 1.4. He said it would work, contrary to our belief it won't. But since they removed it, I'm wondering what they heck they doing. I have a copy of 1.4, but since they removed it (on a Sunday) I'm wondering what their motivation is. If anyone wants 1.4, here ya go.
 
One of the guys I spoke to at CES said it's possible to go back to 1.4 from 1.6, however you have to go back to 1.5 then back to 1.4. He said it would work, contrary to our belief it won't. But since they removed it, I'm wondering what they heck they doing. I have a copy of 1.4, but since they removed it (on a Sunday) I'm wondering what their motivation is.
I am foreseeing that they are implementing Geo Fencing heavily and would like every one to upgrade to FW 1.6. They released DJI GO App 2.50 which implements Geo Fencing in association with FW 1.6. Thats the catch (TRAP) now.
 
Yesterday I took off with 98% battery to demo the quad to a group of 40 people. I landed at 3 bars. Today, I figured I needed to run down the battery and flew it to 48% with no problem. I've done this a few times and charged again to 100% and flown with no problems.
 
Yesterday I took off with 98% battery to demo the quad to a group of 40 people. I landed at 3 bars. Today, I figured I needed to run down the battery and flew it to 48% with no problem. I've done this a few times and charged again to 100% and flown with no problems.
You are a Bravo
 

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