Yellowstone NP cracking down on Illegal drone use....

[trcsmith]

A drone flying around my camping area is like a camper pulling up near me and to camp and the first thing they do is pull out the stereo and crank it up. That's why laws have started, brainless people with no common since. I like flying my drone but I know there is a place and time to do it.

 

[BigAl07]

Someone here stated that visitors should have a drone free experience. Really? Why would drones be considered annoying when endless families of screaming children, beer swilling partying youth blasting loud music and laughing and yelling at all hours, car and truck engines running and driving around campgrounds all day and night, and barbecues and campfires spewing smoke and stink in my face are not considered a nuisance? I generally have not been able to stay peacefully in a campground for over thirty years. It's not the laws that originate the restrictions, it is the stupid and ignorant.

I think that "someone" was me and I whole heartedly stand by those comments. I spend a good deal of time in areas that are NPS and thank goodness I've never had any of those experiences other than the campfire issues and even then they weren't "spewing smoke in my face". There are other rules/restrictions against many of the things you mentioned and if they occurred then the Park Management at that area is to blame.

No Rule/Regulation is going to be perfect and no not everyone is going to get caught when they bust those but simply not having them to begin with is not a step in the right direction IMHO.

It is important for the same reason that some city parks don't allow dogs off-leash, and some do. No matter whether you love dogs or are disgusted by dogs or are somewhere in the middle, everybody gets some space but nobody gets all the space. I know it's hard to believe, but there are a significant number of people who object to drones buzzing around them on their nature vacation. This is a place for that POV, just as there are places for contrasting POVs. Without compromise between competing views, we don't have civilization.

Very well said. Your level of reasoning is refreshing to say the least.

A drone flying around my camping area is like a camper pulling up near me and to camp and the first thing they do is pull out the stereo and crank it up. That's why laws have started, brainless people with no common since. I like flying my drone but I know there is a place and time to do it.

Exactly... a Time & Place for everything.

 

[Phantombandit]

There was also the incident where a drone crash to one of the most beautiful geyser pools in Yellowstone. I cannot even imagine the damage that did.

 

[Trackerputnam]

Laws and 'rules' such as this are made to compensate for the worst cases, which generally are very stupid, inconsiderate and oblivious people, of which there are way too many. Stupidity is a rampant epidemic that is validated by today's political environment. I'll guess that most participants on this forum are generally somewhat intelligent and responsible drone operators. Unfortunately, as in every endeavor, the idiots and assholes must be reigned in by laws that, sadly, everyone must abide by. A horrible example is the no drone rule in the Glen Canyon National Recreation Area, a large swath of southern Utah with spectacular scenery. 95% of it is remote lands, with hardly any roads or people. But because Lake Powell is contained within and is a popular place to visit and vacation, the entire rec area is no drone. Terrible shame for those of us seeking grand landscape flying opportunities where drone use would not create any problems for anyone.

Someone here stated that visitors should have a drone free experience. Really? Why would drones be considered annoying when endless families of screaming children, beer swilling partying youth blasting loud music and laughing and yelling at all hours, car and truck engines running and driving around campgrounds all day and night, and barbecues and campfires spewing smoke and stink in my face are not considered a nuisance? I generally have not been able to stay peacefully in a campground for over thirty years. It's not the laws that originate the restrictions, it is the stupid and ignorant.

Thank you sir! Well stated and I agree with you.

 

[2edgesword]

The absolute 100% ban on drones apparently doesn't work because the folks that don't care about violating the law are going to do what they want to do until they are caught and fined. The idea that the National Parks should be drone free so "you" can have a drone free experience of the park ignores the fact that "others" are looking to have a drone experience in the park.

My main point is the total ban is an arbitrary elevation of one individual's right over another individual's right based on the preference of those making the rules. There should be some places and/or times set aside in the National Parks for individuals that want the drone experience to have that experience. If having a drone flying in a particular area at a particular time is such a bother to you go to drone free zones in the park or wait for the drone free time to make the visit. And if some accommodation for flying drones is provide and someone violates the law make an example of them with a serious fine or jail time.

I was just camping at a local campground near my home where I have camped for many years. In researching the possibility of flying my drone I found out most of the area is a national seashore but there is a slice of beach set aside for the county park and campground. I contacted the county and they advised I would need a permit for the days and times I planned to fly. I went through the permit process, received the permit and enjoyed a few hours of flying on the beach during the fair weather days we were there. Flying there is only permitted before Memorial Day and after Labor Day. All of this is to say yes, there are restrictions. I understand why the restrictions are in place (drones flying over crowed beaches after Memorial Day would be a major safety hazard) but there is a set aside that allows access if you're willing to go through a process (btw, if anyone is interested in a short 1 minute video of the experience you can view it here: Flight 800 Memorial & Smith's Point Park ).

Maybe not for some but the idea of a TOTAL ban just rubs me the wrong way. Set up restrictions for time, place, manner, etc. but these National Parks belong to everyone to enjoy and for some that enjoyment is enhanced via being able to fly and record those experiences.

 

[drvrbobob]

For those who complain they cant legally fly there, how active are you with your representatives to try and change the law? My guess is you are not.

 

[JeffreyS]

I think that "someone" was me and I whole heartedly stand by those comments. I spend a good deal of time in areas that are NPS and thank goodness I've never had any of those experiences other than the campfire issues.

Thanks for your reply, Al. Since you spend a lot of time in National Parks you probably also stay in campgrounds elsewhere as well. You are truly a lucky man if you've never been bothered by screaming children, superbright lights on all night and other loud events. Just one hour of loud children can't be compared to a few minutes of drone props at 300 feet up.

Thanks, 2edgesword for you reply. The point about individual rights is spot on.

I'm sure that if I droned for a few minutes near other campers, the authorities would show up pretty soon. Yet, if I call in a complaint about any other noises that are much louder and longer lasting, no one would respond. It's more about the perception of the crime and the stigma caused my the media.

 

[JeffreyS]

For those who complain they cant legally fly there, how active are you with your representatives to try and change the law? My guess is you are not.

A reasonable idea, but we all know that will never happen no matter how much we write our congressmen or state and local officials..

 

[dronegod1971]

A drone casually flying overhead at 300' will somehow mess up the "park experience"? What about the people that enjoy flying drones and don't consider them to be a nuisance? Airspace is just that, AIRSPACE. No one owns it and with the exception of interfering with an airplane / helicopter / hot air balloon... etc., it should be left to the drone pilot to determine where and when he / she can fly. We take a certification test and register the drones to assure everything is compliant. We maintain a "ceiling" and operate under strict guidelines and regulations. The national park restrictions are ridiculous, especially considering the vastness of some of them and the sheer beauty they provide. I don't violate the rule but have been very vocal in having this ban lifted (at least partially) to allow pilots to gain access to some of the most beautiful parks in the country. People that complain that drones " ruin the park experience" need to relax and let other people enjoy their hobbies free from the paranoia of a few small minded people.

 

[Great Pumpkin]

Maybe one solution is for the National Parks to proclaim one day per week, or per month, or several days a year when drones may fly in the parks. Another suggestion would be for each park to post areas where drones ARE PERMITTED - such as all that remote land in Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. Death Valley is another national park with a lot of remote land - especially remote to most folks in the summer.

 

[furthertofly]

A drone flying around my camping area is like a camper pulling up near me and to camp and the first thing they do is pull out the stereo and crank it up. That's why laws have started, brainless people with no common since. I like flying my drone but I know there is a place and time to do it.

Just want to point out that drones aren't singled out for regulation. All kinds of public and private campgrounds and RV parks have regulations about hours of generator use, quiet hours, pets, food storage (bears, etc.). Backcountry hikers, campers, and horsepackers are subject to quotas and permits in many places. Some parks have limited driving hours and shuttle buses are the required. Etc.

It's a bummer that land managers have to legislate things that most of us consider kindness and common sense, but that's the reality of 7 billion people on the planet, a few of whom feel privileged and entitled.

 

[2edgesword]

Just want to point out that drones aren't singled out for regulation. All kinds of public and private campgrounds and RV parks have regulations about hours of generator use, quiet hours, pets, food storage (bears, etc.). Backcountry hikers, campers, and horsepackers are subject to quotas and permits in many places. Some parks have limited driving hours and shuttle buses are the required. Etc.

It's a bummer that land managers have to legislate things that most of us consider kindness and common sense, but that's the reality of 7 billion people on the planet, a few of whom feel privileged and entitled.

My wife and I do a lot of camping during the summer. We pay attention to and follow whatever the rules are for a particular campground. If we feel the rules are too stringent we avoid that campground but we do expect that if the campground has rules they will strictly enforce the rules. We appreciate our quiet time. If there are kids making noise during regular daylight hours we accept that as part of what goes with camping in a particular place BUT when quiet hours come we expect everyone to honor those hours.

Again, my issues is the TOTAL ban on flying drones in national parks. In my opinion there should be some accommodation for those that are willing to abide by rules of time, place and manner to enjoy this pastime in the parks. Will there be those that try to stretch the rules? Of course, just as there are those that ignore the ban. Everyone shouldn't be penalized for the benefit or penalization of a few.

 

[BigAl07]

A drone casually flying overhead at 300' will somehow mess up the "park experience"? What about the people that enjoy flying drones and don't consider them to be a nuisance? Airspace is just that, AIRSPACE. No one owns it and with the exception of interfering with an airplane / helicopter / hot air balloon... etc., it should be left to the drone pilot to determine where and when he / she can fly. We take a certification test and register the drones to assure everything is compliant. We maintain a "ceiling" and operate under strict guidelines and regulations. The national park restrictions are ridiculous, especially considering the vastness of some of them and the sheer beauty they provide. I don't violate the rule but have been very vocal in having this ban lifted (at least partially) to allow pilots to gain access to some of the most beautiful parks in the country. People that complain that drones " ruin the park experience" need to relax and let other people enjoy their hobbies free from the paranoia of a few small minded people.

Easy there bud.... You're borderline on some of your comments there. It's ok to debate etc but don't make it personal or it will come back to haunt you personally on the forum.


@Great Pumpkin good suggestions but...

Maybe one solution is for the National Parks to proclaim one day per week, or per month, or several days a year when drones may fly in the parks.

Someone will say, "Those dates don't work for me. It's my RIGHT to fly drones when and where I want..."

Another suggestion would be for each park to post areas where drones ARE PERMITTED - such all that all that remote land in Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. Death Valley is another national park with a lot of remote land - especially remote to most folks in the summer.

You'd immediately have a group saying, "But I want to fly OVER THERE where it's prettier and not here where I'm 'Governed' on what I can and can't do..."

Just want to point out that drones aren't singled out for regulation. All kinds of public and private campgrounds and RV parks have regulations about hours of generator use, quiet hours, pets, food storage (bears, etc.). Backcountry hikers, campers, and horsepackers are subject to quotas and permits in many places. Some parks have limited driving hours and shuttle buses are the required. Etc.

It's a bummer that land managers have to legislate things that most of us consider kindness and common sense, but that's the reality of 7 billion people on the planet, a few of whom feel privileged and entitled.

^^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! But for some reason "Drone Operators" seem to think they should be exempt from those type of regulations simply because their camera is flying through the air. Negative

I get it.. I fly drones for fun and $$ but I also know how annoying they can be and don't desire to hear/see them when I'm relaxing in the great outdoors. I've been to events and venues where they were flying up high and not directly over the people and they were still an annoyance and a distraction. Plus if I'm trying to get a picture of Mount Rushmore and there are half a dozen sUAS zooming in the picture it's ruined.

 

[Nightwolf]

People that complain that drones " ruin the park experience" need to relax and let other people enjoy their hobbies free from the paranoia of a few small minded people.

After five years that this “law” has been in place, many of us are still looking for a rational reason for it. That is the real issue and why so many people have a problem with it.

I like riding a dirt bike and an ATV, so that's cool too right? Everyone on this forum loves to fly and all but a few are A-OK with leaving the parks drone free so that should tell you that it's reasonable.

 

[Nightwolf]

We take a certification test and register the drones to assure everything is compliant.

This also ensures that we know which laws to follow (all of them)

 

[2edgesword]

I get it.. I fly drones for fun and $$ but I also know how annoying they can be and don't desire to hear/see them when I'm relaxing in the great outdoors. I've been to events and venues where they were flying up high and not directly over the people and they were still an annoyance and a distraction. Plus if I'm trying to get a picture of Mount Rushmore and there are half a dozen sUAS zooming in the picture it's ruined.

Not to side track the thread but have you flown a Parrot Anafi? At 50' (25' for the hearing impaired) you won't know it's there, which is one of the reason I like flying it, totally unobtrusive.

That said there are loud, very obtrusive drones and others that are much less obtrusive. I was watching a video review of a drone (can't remember the name) and at 300' you could still hear it through the guys audio. For that reason allow I would consider it. I really try to not allow what I'm doing to be a distraction to others. Of on a tangent...why do travel trailer manufacturers put outside speakers on these things? But that's another pet peeve of mine for another forum.

 

[dronegod1971]

Easy there bud.... You're borderline on some of your comments there. It's ok to debate etc but don't make it personal or it will come back to haunt you personally on the forum.


@Great Pumpkin good suggestions but...


Someone will say, "Those dates don't work for me. It's my RIGHT to fly drones when and where I want..."



You'd immediately have a group saying, "But I want to fly OVER THERE where it's prettier and not here where I'm 'Governed' on what I can and can't do..."



^^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! But for some reason "Drone Operators" seem to think they should be exempt from those type of regulations simply because their camera is flying through the air. Negative

I get it.. I fly drones for fun and $$ but I also know how annoying they can be and don't desire to hear/see them when I'm relaxing in the great outdoors. I've been to events and venues where they were flying up high and not directly over the people and they were still an annoyance and a distraction. Plus if I'm trying to get a picture of Mount Rushmore and there are half a dozen sUAS zooming in the picture it's ruined.

@Great Pumpkin what are you talking about? What exactly in my statement is "borderline" or "personal"? I was merely stating that curbing my lifestyle because someone else doesn't agree with it is weak. I don't think people should be allowed to do a lot of things they do but I'm forced to put up w it so how is flying a drone in a secluded area an issue? The national park restrictions are ridiculous and I will gladly take any heat from anyone that wants to debate it with me. Do the same restrictions apply for RC cars? How about metal detectors that make beeping noises? The fact is that drones were banned from parks before they even had a chance. The drone-haters will continue to push for more and more restrictions on drone usage and taking 15.7% (National Park space) of American lands off the map for drones is just a start. There is no data that can support a valid reason to ban drones from parks and the more that drone operators allow the general masses to dictate their agenda ,the more airspace we will lose. If that's too personal for you GreatPumpkin then so be it. Curious how I'm going to be "haunted' for stating my opinion but whatever.

 

[Great Pumpkin]

@Great Pumpkin what are you talking about? What exactly in my statement is "borderline" or "personal"? I was merely stating that curbing my lifestyle because someone else doesn't agree with it is weak. I don't think people should be allowed to do a lot of things they do but I'm forced to put up w it so how is flying a drone in a secluded area an issue? The national park restrictions are ridiculous and I will gladly take any heat from anyone that wants to debate it with me. Do the same restrictions apply for RC cars? How about metal detectors that make beeping noises? The fact is that drones were banned from parks before they even had a chance. The drone-haters will continue to push for more and more restrictions on drone usage and taking 15.7% (National Park space) of American lands off the map for drones is just a start. There is no data that can support a valid reason to ban drones from parks and the more that drone operators allow the general masses to dictate their agenda ,the more airspace we will lose. If that's too personal for you GreatPumpkin then so be it. Curious how I'm going to be "haunted' for stating my opinion but whatever.

Dronegod, you flamed on the wrong person. I was NOT the one you said anything about "borderline" or "personal". I merely made a couple suggestions. Please see my post #30.

 

[dronegod1971]

Dronegod, you flamed on the wrong person. I was NOT the one you said anything about "borderline" or "personal". I merely made a couple suggestions. Please see my post #30.

My bad That should have been directed at BigAl07. Flamed? Some pretty sensitive people on here apparently. I'll be sure to sugar coat everything going forward.

 

[sar104]

My bad That should have been directed at BigAl07. Flamed? Some pretty sensitive people on here apparently. I'll be sure to sugar coat everything going forward.

You won't be in a position to sugar-coat anything if you keep responding like that to forum moderators.