Why would it be wrong to have taken this photo?

[4thdpi]

Parking lots can constitute as private property. The FAA allows flying over private property, but all flights must takeoff and land on public property. However most security guards will chase someone with a drone if they feel it intrudes on their privacy.

This is what I mean about 107 Pilots versus non 107 Pilots and no one really understands the law. There is no rule that you need to take off from a public place. I'm not sure where you're getting that from but that's insanity. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that picture that was taken at night. You were under 400 feet and that still high enough to take some great shots. You are totally legal. DRC PhD

 

[daveisim]

Commercial Petroleum refinerys are part of critical infrastructure. You can not even fly full scale aircraft over them, or near them. You can not photograph a refinery at all.

I disagree with this. While a refinery might be a "critical infrastructure", unless it's listed in a TFR, you can certainly fly near if not over it. Heck, I can fly a full size GA airplane near / over a nuclear power plant if I want to at a few thousand feet. It might raise a few eyeballs but it's perfectly legal.

As for photographing one, yes you can. Do a YouTube search for " first amendment audit" and you'll see plenty of this on public property. Add in "refinery" for narrower results. You will find that while the security guards will try to hassle you and tell you that photography is illegal, the LEO's will arrive and tell all that there's no laws being broken.

 

[4thdpi]

I disagree with this. While a refinery might be a "critical infrastructure", unless it's listed in a TFR, you can certainly fly near if not over it. Heck, I can fly a full size GA airplane near / over a nuclear power plant if I want to at a few thousand feet. It might raise a few eyeballs but it's perfectly legal.

As for photographing one, yes you can. Do a YouTube search for " first amendment audit" and you'll see plenty of this on public property. Add in "refinery" for narrower results. You will find that while the security guards will try to hassle you and tell you that photography is illegal, the LEO's will arrive and tell all that there's no laws being broken.

As a pilot for wom air, instrument ratings and multi engine. there are no restrictions flying over refineries etc. Prisons are a nono. Some of u need to google the fars, before making blatant comments.

 

[landmannnn]

Are private security guards allowed to chase you in the US? In most countries private security employees have no powers that the average citizen doesn't.

 

[Hamguy]

A buddy of mine shot this a few years back. He took off from an open parking lot and never fly any closer than this and never above 400 feet. Hobbyist at night. Got chased for several miles by unmarked security vehicles but he managed to make it to the freeway so never found out why they were following him. What could he have done wrong?
View attachment 107843

One sure way to get "chased" is to run! Your "buddy" is a fool and giving drone ops a bad image.

 

[FunN4lo]

As a pilot for wom air, instrument ratings and multi engine. there are no restrictions flying over refineries etc. Prisons are a nono. Some of u need to google the fars, before making blatant comments.

Some of do not live near refineries or would not make that statement. Fly over a refinery. If caught, you will be in a world of trouble with Homeland Security . The end of the described chase for Drestin, would have been the security guards turning him over to Homeland Security. Your drone will be confiscated. You are probably not getting it back. (I a not aware of anyone that has gotten their drone back) And... you are going to be in some legal trouble, that you hope the only punishment is, not getting your drone back.

 

[bsartist]

If google maps has daytime pics of it, how is that allowed?

 

[Bad Andy]

Why did he run?

Some of us have come to understand that the best form of contact with law enforcement is no contact with law enforcement.

Courts have determined that police don't have to know the laws they're enforcing. At the same time, for us, "ignorance of the law excuses not".

Look at all the differing opinions about legality here in this thread and in similar discussions elsewhere on this site, more of the same on drone related pages in Facebork, etc. and then ask yourself why you'd put complete trust in a cop to make the right decision. Focus beyond drones and have a look at sites like Photography Is Not a Crime, at the craziness of incidents like Amtrak putting on a photography contest then arresting the photographers. Then ask yourself why you'd trust a rent-a-cop, who is even less likely to have a good grasp on the laws and who is going to be more interested in impressing his boss than in someone's well-being.

I'm glad you've had good experiences. I've had a few as well. But I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't always work out as well as it ought to. So when someone's first impulse is to split, even if what they were doing was absolutely legal, it doesn't entirely surprise me. The propensity for some to "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" is not something I favor.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Drestin Black]

1) Not my photo and taken years ago.
2) “chase” - maybe a poor choice of the word. He landed, packed up, drove away then noticed he was followed by two pickup trucks with characteristic lights on top. They followed him at normal speed making no “unusual moves towards” his car. When he reached his normal highway entrance they stopped following. It’s also possible he either exaggerated this part (being fair and honest here) or was simply wrong.

3) this entire view is easily visible from the highway, several streets, several public businesses and there is a large Public parking lot in front of it (employee parking dis elsewhere). It would be effortless to simply drive up and point any camera at it. It’s about 100 feet tall and all lit up day and night, impossible to miss and located near busy interceptions. There is nothing secretive or hidden about it’s outside appearance.
4) he stressed at no time did he approach closed that that photo, absolutely did not overfly it. There is no FR of any kind there then or now.
5) I do believe it’s considered critical infrastructure though I don’t believe he understood that at the time (not an excuse, an explanation)

This is becoming mischaracterized

 

[Bad Andy]

Thanks for the clarification - the word "chased" was used. ;-)

That stuff is wide out and in the open has not dissuaded a fair number of cops and security folks from becomes pains in the posteriors to photographers in this country, and drone operators do seem to be becoming the new boogeyman.

And yes, infrastructure does get mentioned by the FAA. LOL. Although the wording is vague. For example, how many feet is "close proximity".

I maintain the best contact is no contact. Glad it ended without substantial drama for your acquaintance.

 

[Providian623]

It's a refinery as you can see the cracking tower. Standard aircraft cannot fly over them because of the obvious. If one crashes into it you get a big loud boom. I'm sure security somehow didn't get the memo that small drones bounce off steel. Now having said that, I am sure refineries, chemical facilities, etc. have all received notices, from Homeland, about anyone observed taking photographs of their respective sites and told to tray to secure identification where possible. No idea why "security personnel" would conduct a full scale pursuit as 90% do not have police powers to chase down & apprehend. However, some states give security personnel "Police Powers" when on duty provided they have taken state mandated courses. FunN4io is correct in that photographs are not allowed of critical infrastructure facilities. Refinery/Chemical plants fall into that category. BTW the "buddy" says they were unmarked security vehicles chasing him. He knew this how? Could have been Feds, Police, Homeland Security, or a myriad of other agencies who have a special interest in the facility. Could have gotten real nasty real quick.

 

[Providian623]

It's a refinery as you can see the cracking tower. Standard aircraft cannot fly over them because of the obvious. If one crashes into it you get a big loud boom. I'm sure security somehow didn't get the memo that small drones bounce off steel. Now having said that, I am sure refineries, chemical facilities, etc. have all received notices, from Homeland, about anyone observed taking photographs of their respective sites and told to tray to secure identification where possible. No idea why "security personnel" would conduct a full scale pursuit as 90% do not have police powers to chase down & apprehend. However, some states give security personnel "Police Powers" when on duty provided they have taken state mandated courses. FunN4io is correct in that photographs are not allowed of critical infrastructure facilities. Refinery/Chemical plants fall into that category. BTW the "buddy" says they were unmarked security vehicles chasing him. He knew this how? Could have been Feds, Police, Homeland Security, or a myriad of other agencies who have a special interest in the facility. Could have gotten real nasty real quick.

Ok, just saw the clarification on the "security trucks" & the chase. So that covers the vehicles, etc.

 

[Poppy Ann]

it sounds like Americans are getting more and more rules put on them every day soon you will have to apply to drive down certain roads as they are classed as critical infrastructure I doubt terrorists would bother to go to the place they are thinking of bombing and fly a drone before I think they would just get someone to start working at the place to decide whether they are going to target the place you can look at just about anywhere on google earth to get a look instead of trying to fly a drone over it the US government has gone crazy over "homeland security".

 

[Drestin Black]

This is a photo of Area 51 taken by a civilian from miles away. There are signs at end roads to Area 51 which say all photography is forbidden. Safe to say this falls into the “secret base/restricted” category.

Yet; here it is, published in a US magazine. Feds sent beating down the photogs door. So there has to be some practical limit. If you can see something as you are driving by in your car on a public road, it would be illegal to point your cell phone at it and click?

 

[Osmosis]

Commercial Petroleum refinerys are part of critical infrastructure. You can not even fly full scale aircraft over them, or near them. You can not photograph a refinery at all. From the ground, or especially from the air. Living close enough to fly at a refinery, you do not know this? You are lucky you were not caught. The only thing dumber that flying at the refinery, is posting that you did it

This why we can't have nice things! Learn the rules. Every time someone does dumb like this with a drone, they just make more and more restrictive rules.

You can fly over most things not marked as restricted by the FAA. Take-off from a public way, keep in in sight and youre good. If I can fly a Cessna over it, I can fly a drone over it.

Same for all aircraft (Airspace Restrictions)

• Stadiums and Sporting Events
• Near Airports
• Security Sensitive Airspace Restrictions
• Restricted or Special Use Airspace
• Washington, DC

And, per the FAA website, check the Know Before You Fly airspace maps.

I looked up a few refineries in NJ and found only yellow restrictions due to nearby airports. Red airspace is, of course - restricted.

U.S. Air Space Map | Know Before You Fly

Only the FAA regulates airspace, not local governments, Homeland, etc. - only the FAA.

 

[Drestin Black]

I disagree with this. While a refinery might be a "critical infrastructure", unless it's listed in a TFR, you can certainly fly near if not over it. Heck, I can fly a full size GA airplane near / over a nuclear power plant if I want to at a few thousand feet. It might raise a few eyeballs but it's perfectly legal.

As for photographing one, yes you can. Do a YouTube search for " first amendment audit" and you'll see plenty of this on public property. Add in "refinery" for narrower results. You will find that while the security guards will try to hassle you and tell you that photography is illegal, the LEO's will arrive and tell all that there's no laws being broken.

Wow!! Let me highlight this for everyone:
Search YouTube for “first amendment audit” (add “refinery” to stay specifically on topic and then sit back and enjoy.

These dudes have bigger, um: guts than me. They go right up to the line, toe to toe, and, well, see for yourselves. I won’t link a specific one because I don’t want to focus on a particular one but what is made VERY clear is that, yes, you can take videos and photos of a refinery just so long as you do not trespass.

As has been pointed out, also, only the FAA controls airspace and if there is no FR in place you can flight over it. B4UFly shows no restrictions that location. I’ll remind readers that at no time did the drone fly over the refinery, it flew behind the yellow lines of the public road in front of the place. These videos make it clear that it is ok to photograph something that is plainly visible from a public easement. One of the videos shows them filming a nuclear weapons site. Fascinating videos.

 

[skymonkey]

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic..._gAhWuslkKHcJ3C0cQ7Al6BAgIEDQ&biw=768&bih=922

 

[Drestin Black]

Actually. Can someone point to the law that says you can’t take a photo of a “critical infrastructure” that’s visible from a public place?

 

[Dronebilly]

[Flying 1/2 hour after official sunset is prohibited by FAA regulations but doubt a security guard would know that. Critical infrastructures such as bridges, dams, power plants, etc are NFZ. This was most likely the reason for being chased. So your friend violated at least two FAA regs unless he had a waiver which I doubt was the case. The FAA website has all the regulations available for free.

 

[skymonkey]

[Flying 1/2 hour after official sunset is prohibited by FAA regulations but doubt a security guard would know that. Critical infrastructures such as bridges, dams, power plants, etc are NFZ. This was most likely the reason for being chased. So your friend violated at least two FAA regs unless he had a waiver which I doubt was the case. The FAA website has all the regulations available for free.

Wasn’t this pic taken before part 107 existed.
If so no violations of regs.