The VALUE of photography... please learn about it before you make a mistake

[Just Mark]

BUT ... some will pay for it and others won't.

Or, if I may...

Some will pay for what others pay to avoid.

We have lots of fast food restaurants where I am (north of San Francisco), but we also have several steak houses that will set you back over a hundred bucks for a meal for two.

Local supermarkets around here sell Hershey Bars / Mr. Goodbars / Twix, but they also sell SCHARFFEN BERGER.

 

[Kcgunesq]

Lots of good points on both sides here. I'll just add that when a real estate agent told me that if I got my license she would pay me $100 per shoot, I told her I didn't see how it would be worth it for me to do it unless she had several nearby each other.

All she saw was the fact that the homes could be photographed in a matter of a few minutes. She wasn't adding in the cost of driving, insurance, depreciation, editing, storage, etc.

 

[Just Mark]

Lots of good points on both sides here. I'll just add that when a real estate agent told me that if I got my license she would pay me $100 per shoot, I told her I didn't see how it would be worth it for me to do it unless she had several nearby each other.

All she saw was the fact that the homes could be photographed in a matter of a few minutes. She wasn't adding in the cost of driving, insurance, depreciation, editing, storage, etc.

Thank you for adding your real life experience. Yes, at $100 a pop, you would want to line up LOTS of different realtors who get lots of listings to make it worth your while.

In business, it all boils down to worth. What is the median home price in your area? Most real estate agents will end up with around 1% to about 1.5% commission off the top of the sale price.

Apparently, the median home price in the US is just about $200K (selling price, not listing price), so the median commission would be about $2K to 2.5K for the listing agent. On top of the $100 she would be paying you, she would probably be paying somewhere between $100 and $200 for ground-based still photography. So that's 15% of her commission eaten up right there.

She would have lots of other costs as well; If she is a Realtor, she will have to pay membership fees to the national and local association of realtors, and usually a membership to the MLS, and insurance, and there is often little way of predicting how quickly (or slowly) a house will sell.

I shoot real estate photography professionally as a living and I have had to add drone photography to my list of services just to kind of keep up - and to make sure they don't lose their existing regular clients. I know a few other photographers who are doing that as well.

 

[Laar]

Excellent posts! Just throwing my $0.02 in, as we have seen in the past few years many things that we have enjoyed in the past are starting to come around full circle again. For one instance, look at vinyl records. 3 years ago it was a small niche market but now they are coming back stronger and stronger. Why? For most who enjoy music, the "experience" one gets while listening to a record is unique and cannot be replicated digitally. The character simply cannot be reproduced. I firmly believe that photography will make a comeback to film and darkroom processing for exactly the same reasons. If you want to understand exactly what i mean, google image photography pre 1900 and look at any of the pictures. Ironic i know that you are using digital technology to look at an old photograph but you get the picture. ( pun intended).
My point is, only the extremely talented photographers like a few that have posted on this thread, will have any clue on how to supply the demand for pics with heart and soul. This also applies to architecture.
Long rant.....over.

 

[Kcgunesq]

Thank you for adding your real life experience. Yes, at $100 a pop, you would want to line up LOTS of different realtors who get lots of listings to make it worth your while.

In business, it all boils down to worth. What is the median home price in your area? Most real estate agents will end up with around 1% to about 1.5% commission off the top of the sale price.

Apparently, the median home price in the US is just about $200K (selling price, not listing price), so the median commission would be about $2K to 2.5K for the listing agent. On top of the $100 she would be paying you, she would probably be paying somewhere between $100 and $200 for ground-based still photography. So that's 15% of her commission eaten up right there.

She would have lots of other costs as well; If she is a Realtor, she will have to pay membership fees to the national and local association of realtors, and usually a membership to the MLS, and insurance, and there is often little way of predicting how quickly (or slowly) a house will sell.

I shoot real estate photography professionally as a living and I have had to add drone photography to my list of services just to kind of keep up - and to make sure they don't lose their existing regular clients. I know a few other photographers who are doing that as well.

1% or thereabouts sounds low for a typical gross. Most of the full time, successful residential agents I know get to keep the lion's share of the commissions earned by their side. Many are paying a desk fee monthly, while others have a split that ends up with a gross around 1.75% of the sale price (or better).

But one solution you note would be to hire the same photographer for both parts. I'd be much more willing to add the drone service on as an extra asset a lower rate.

 

[Kcgunesq]

Excellent posts! Just throwing my $0.02 in, as we have seen in the past few years many things that we have enjoyed in the past are starting to come around full circle again. For one instance, look at vinyl records. 3 years ago it was a small niche market but now they are coming back stronger and stronger. Why? For most who enjoy music, the "experience" one gets while listening to a record is unique and cannot be replicated digitally. The character simply cannot be reproduced. I firmly believe that photography will make a comeback to film and darkroom processing for exactly the same reasons. If you want to understand exactly what i mean, google image photography pre 1900 and look at any of the pictures. Ironic i know that you are using digital technology to look at an old photograph but you get the picture. ( pun intended).
My point is, only the extremely talented photographers like a few that have posted on this thread, will have any clue on how to supply the demand for pics with heart and soul. This also applies to architecture.
Long rant.....over.

Define "come back", because LP sales are about 1% of 1973. The trend will likely not survive longer than skinny jeans and Ironic consumption of PBR.

 

[QuadKid]

Hey Jim, I agree your talents are exceptional. I have been flying Quads now for a few years now, first the toys, then intermediate models, then FPV Race Quads, this has developed a good sense of muscle memory which contributes to flying techniques such as creeping along in Tripod Mode or slamming a motor cross event. I to am Part 107 certified, that is just the tip of the ice burg. Once certified, to do any commercial work you need Aviation Insurance ( $1 mil prop/liability ) Medical coverage of least $ 10K ( just in case you nip someone's finger and they need stiches ), State & County business license's, no real client will hire you without it. Been flying DJI's P3P, P4P & Recently the Mavic, none of these will give you the quality displayed on your website, that being said they are pretty good in supplying what many clients want in inspections, land mapping, looking for lost cattle, ect. I incorporate the Drones, Nikon DSLR, & OSMO in most of my shoots. I typically do construction, real estate and the occasional look for something missing ( domestic Livestock ) over a 120 acre farm. Getting back to your point I typically charge according to the value of the shoot, IE: I am currently doing roof inspections / damage assessments in the Daytona Beach FL area after IRMA on 8-15 story Condo high rises they run $ 1,000 - $1,800 for inspection & post edit and can't keep up with the demand at that price.

 

[DougAles]

I've done some aerial and ground real estate shots recently. This is my work below.

Ground: NCAA hall of champions, Indianapolis, IN
Sky: Fin'n'feather, Winneconne, WI
Sky: Appleton Yacht Club, Appleton, WI (last two)

Aerial shots are in vogue right now however I don't believe its a sustainable business model. Its a fad.

After all, why does a buyer of real estate care to know how the asset looks from an angle no one will ever see?

In my opinion, groud based real estate photography is more sustainable.

 

[Helihover]

Aerial shots a fad...... lol.

Aerial shots are more efficient. You'll see a lot more in less time with less photos.

 

[Just Mark]

Aerial shots are in vogue right now however I don't believe its a sustainable business model. Its a fad.

After all, why does a buyer of real estate care to know how the asset looks from an angle no one will ever see?

In my opinion, groud based real estate photography is more sustainable.

I wouldn't label it as just a fad, but you do bring up a good point.

I get clients (agents and FSBOs) that want to show how close there home is to a lake / park / golf course, or they want to show how far away the neighbors are (i.e., display the amount of privacy), or just give an overall impression of the lot.

Yes, these could probably all be conveyed ground-based photos to a certain extent, but I think that in some cases having aerial photos will also help.

 

[Laar]

Lo

Define "come back", because LP sales are about 1% of 1973. The trend will likely not survive longer than skinny jeans and Ironic consumption of PBR.

Lol, not sure where you got your "figure" from, but even if you fudge that number to 1% that is still significant. In an age where digital media is king, and cd sales have declined rapidly, to actually gain ground is quite significant. What competition did vinyl have in the 70s besides a spiralling 8 track? Just because you don't agree or understand doesnt make the facts go away. The electric car was a "fad" in the early 1900s too, so does that make their current resurgence just temporary? Just trying to understand your logic.

 

[Kcgunesq]

Electric cars make up less than 0.7% of car sales. In ~10 years, only around 500,000 units have been sold in the US. Put into perspective, Ford sells over 800,000 pickups every year.

Niche, fad, whatever.

But there is a reason I am glad you chose to use EVs as your comparison. EVs of 1900 and 2010 gave the same issue. In fact, the range of an ev in 1900 was about 40 miles. Not to dissimilar to modern versions.

But unlike EVs that may see thier biggest limitations solved by better batteries or a better charging system, LPS will always suffer from degrading performance over time, have limited capacity, require linear playback, mobility constraints, and be easily damaged. In other words, there are many reasons to not prefer them over other options.

Of course, some argue that modern vinyl is nothing more than pressings of digital masters on cheap plastic. Nothing analog about it. And no reason it shoud sound "better" than a CD.

If a baseball team wins the championship in year one, finishes in last place for the next few years, and then takes second to last in the final year that might be an improvement, but it isn't a comeback.

 

[DougAles]

Okay, well, since I'm the guy who said aerial photography as a business is not sustainable, please indulge me to pick the analogy.

I pick a forgotten television feature called "Picture in picture."

Circa 1992 this was all the rage.

Did you get picture in picture on your TV? You didn't? What's wrong with you?

I was a sucker. I got it. Here is what happened. Either I was watching the little screen and I missed what was on the big screen (honestly it was more like the less little screen by today's standards) or the other way around.

Soon, I never used it. Apartnelty, everyone else stoped using it also because it doesn't even come up anymore.

In my opinion, photography is evolving. Soon, aerial shots will be so ubiquitous they will no longer be special. After that, the photo will be evaluated by its composition, its interest, its merits as a photo, but not because its a drone vs land shot.

Anywho, thats my opinion.

 

[Kcgunesq]

Okay, well, since I'm the guy who said aerial photography as a business is not sustainable, please indulge me to pick the analogy.

I pick a forgotten television feature called "Picture in picture."

Circa 1992 this was all the rage.

Did you get picture in picture on your TV? You didn't? What's wrong with you?

I was a sucker. I got it. Here is what happened. Either I was watching the little screen and I missed what was on the big screen (honestly it was more like the less little screen by today's standards) or the other way around.

Soon, I never used it. Apartnelty, everyone else stoped using it also because it doesn't even come up anymore.

In my opinion, photography is evolving. Soon, aerial shots will become so ubiquitous they will no longer be special. After that, the photo will be evaluated by its composition, its interest, etc, but not on it being a drone shot.

Agree.

However, Pip is still around, now arguably more useful as screens get larger. But point granted.

 

[Helihover]

Electric cars make up less than 0.7% of car sales. In ~10 years, only around 500,000 units have been sold in the US. Put into perspective, Ford sells over 800,000 pickups every year.

Niche, fad, whatever.

But there is a reason I am glad you chose to use EVs as your comparison. EVs of 1900 and 2010 gave the same issue. In fact, the range of an ev in 1900 was about 40 miles. Not to dissimilar to modern versions.

But unlike EVs that may see thier biggest limitations solved by better batteries or a better charging system, LPS will always suffer from degrading performance over time, have limited capacity, require linear playback, mobility constraints, and be easily damaged. In other words, there are many reasons to not prefer them over other options.

Of course, some argue that modern vinyl is nothing more than pressings of digital masters on cheap plastic. Nothing analog about it. And no reason it shoud sound "better" than a CD.

If a baseball team wins the championship in year one, finishes in last place for the next few years, and then takes second to last in the final year that might be an improvement, but it isn't a comeback.

OT, but where did you find figures on 1900 EV's that have a range of 40 miles?

 

[DougAles]

OT, but where did you find figures on 1900 EV's that have a range of 40 miles?

Its hard to argue with statistics.

 

[Meta4]

In my opinion, photography is evolving. Soon, aerial shots will be so ubiquitous they will no longer be special. After that, the photo will be evaluated by its composition, its interest, its merits as a photo, but not because its a drone vs land shot.

That's the way it should be.
If a photo was only thought of as special because it was a drone shot, it didn't have a lot going for it to start with.
But drones are a great way to shoot special images because you can get the camera to so many places and angles that aren't possible or practical without them.
Here's an example. It's not special because it was shot with a drone.
It's just a great image:

 

[DougAles]

That's the way it should be.
If a photo was only thought of as special because it as a drone shot, it didn't have a lot going for it to start with.
But drones are a great way to shoot special images because you can get the camera to so many places and angles that aren't possible or practical without them.
Here's an example. It's not special because it was shot with a drone.
It's just a great image:

Perfect example of a AWESOME PHOTO that just happened to be shot with a drone.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Kcgunesq]

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OT, but where did you find figures on 1900 EV's that have a range of 40 miles?

Car and Driver


History of Electric Cars


Electric Car Evolution