Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy!)

[OI Photography]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Beautiful PJ, I love it!! Please tell me what kind(s) of paint you used on the DeweyDoor..? I need to do some painting of my own, and I haven't yet tested to see what kinds work or don't work with that 3D plastic....material....resin....stuff.

It's hard to say what you need to set your gains at just yet, I'd wait till you test fly it with everything packed on, then you can how much it settles down (or doesn't) with the weight. You might not need to adjust them so much at that point.

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

I agree w/ Ol Photog, - try it first w/o touching gains AND also try it w/stock props. Mine didn't like the P2 props and flies much smoother w/stock props.

 

[DeweyAXD]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Looks amazing PJA... I love what you've managed to do with the eagle! Really lifts it!

Looks kinda shaky, however, I thought it might have been caused by the 16mph winds that day...

16mph wind will shake her about a surprising amount. Bare in mind the extra weight will always make compensation from the NAZA more noticeable. Imagine dangling a weight from a piece of string, swaying it around and then trying to steady it.... you'll tend to find that the heavier the weight, the harder it is to compensate for the momentum. Naza will have the same problem.

That said I've also heard that the wider legs can cause turbulent airflow. Worth testing with different combos maybe.

Either way you should be really proud of what you've done there

 

[OI Photography]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Imagine dangling a weight from a piece of string, swaying it around and then trying to steady it.... you'll tend to find that the heavier the weight, the harder it is to compensate for the momentum.

Oooooh a new project from Dewey!! Do you have any pictures of that setup? What kind of string exactly did you use? Does the length matter? Can I use a used string or is that dangerous? I see weights available for $200 and some for $50, are the expensive ones worth it? Will I have to do any soldering? How far should I expect it to sway in each direction? Can I increase the distance at all? Are there any laws in my country about using that for commercial purposes? Should I get insurance? What if I swing it over water? Is there anywhere that sells all of the parts as a kit or will I have to order them separately?

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Imagine dangling a weight from a piece of string, swaying it around and then trying to steady it.... you'll tend to find that the heavier the weight, the harder it is to compensate for the momentum.

Oooooh a new project from Dewey!! Do you have any pictures of that setup? What kind of string exactly did you use? Does the length matter? Can I use a used string or is that dangerous? I see weights available for $200 and some for $50, are the expensive ones worth it? Will I have to do any soldering? How far should I expect it to sway in each direction? Can I increase the distance at all? Are there any laws in my country about using that for commercial purposes? Should I get insurance? What if I swing it over water? Is there anywhere that sells all of the parts as a kit or will I have to order them separately?

**** it, not another build - I hate having to calibrate then test, then calibrate again..... and I suppose it's going to have multiple firmware updates. I'll wait for vers 2.

 

[DeweyAXD]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Beta testing has gone well but if you stand too close to a microwave oven or a car with slightly deflated tyres you can easily suffer a 'fall away'.... firmware 'v2.knot' will hopefully solve this but in the mean time if you have trouble please consult your local shrink.

Oh and they will be making a toe guard to prevent damage but if you screw them in too tight you won't walk for a week.

Of course I will be making a full FPV kit available on my Shapeways shop for $36k (plus p&p).:mrgreen:

 

[PJA]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Beautiful PJ, I love it!! Please tell me what kind(s) of paint you used on the DeweyDoor..? I need to do some painting of my own, and I haven't yet tested to see what kinds work or don't work with that 3D plastic....material....resin....stuff.

It's hard to say what you need to set your gains at just yet, I'd wait till you test fly it with everything packed on, then you can how much it settles down (or doesn't) with the weight. You might not need to adjust them so much at that point.

Thanks for the compliments, OI...

The paint I used is TESTORS paint. If you are anywhere near my age, you would remember painting models like Superman, Godzilla and Frankenstein from Aurora with those paints. I bought a set in Michaels Craft store (I think they are everywhere). It even came with a tube of modeling glue (remember getting high on that as a kid, LOL :mrgreen: ) However, I didn't paint the eagle. I can't paint for **** anymore. A talented girlfriend of mine who knows how to blend paint and colors and uses professional brushes did a great job on it...

The only thing that bothers me is that even with the battery cover painted, it has that resin, gritty feeling to it, where if dirt gets on it you won't be able to clean it off... I didn't know if I should coat it with some clear type coating... My friend even said she wouldn't know how the plastic would react to it. It might just melt it away, I guess...

I'll take yours and EMCSQUAR'S advice and test fly my P1.5 without touching the gains first... We'll see what happens...

Funny stuff what you guys say to Dewey... He has a good sense of humor. You gotta have some good laughs about this stuff...
And Dewey, if you read this, I'll put my order in to shapeways for that FPV kit as soon as you post it

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

PJ - now that you've done the conversion keep in mind your bird weighs more so be careful on your decents until you get use to the feel of how she reacts. You'll probably notice she's not as quick to react to stick input (at least what I encountered) so get the feel of stock settings first before making any gain changes. As El G mentioned in another thread, "each Phantom has it's own unique signature and what works for one may not be the optimum for another" - good words of wisdom.

And the only other words of advice I can give is to document all of your changes. I felt like some scientist documenting what I changed, conditions and results/reactions but it came in handy so I could compare end results than relying on "did I try this combination?" I went through different props, gains up, gains down, different battery combos, and different landing gear. (btw landing gear does change handling characteristics)

Pics of current config and bonus pic for Dewey as to next project - cheers

 

[ElGuano]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

PJ - now that you've done the conversion keep in mind your bird weighs more so be careful on your decents until you get use to the feel of how she reacts. You'll probably notice she's not as quick to react to stick input (at least what I encountered) so get the feel of stock settings first before making any gain changes. As El G mentioned in another thread, "each Phantom has it's own unique signature and what works for one may not be the optimum for another" - good words of wisdom.

And the only other words of advice I can give is to document all of your changes. I felt like some scientist documenting what I changed, conditions and results/reactions but it came in handy so I could compare end results than relying on "did I try this combination?" I went through different props, gains up, gains down, different battery combos, and different landing gear. (btw landing gear does change handling characteristics)

Pics of current config and bonus pic for Dewey as to next project - cheers

You're running E300s! Awesome!! Can I interest you in a solution that recovers your arm LEDs with P2-style status indicators as well?

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Yes Please...

 

[OI Photography]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Yes Please...

Same here! I had no idea the E300 ESC's would fit that well in the P2 body! I was thinking about getting the motors anyway, but now I want to just install the whole setup.

@PJA: thank you! I'm pretty sure those Testor paints are acrylics, which is what I was hoping would work. I've painted my share of regular plastic models with both acrylics and enamels, and I wanted to use the former for this if possible...so this is good news

 

[ElGuano]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Yes Please...

This is a full tutorial for a mod I'm doing for the Phantom, but I've lately focused on getting working on the F450 as a test bed (more accessible, easier to change settings and revise code):

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144784

What it does is intercept the NAZA's signals to the LED module, and replicate the red/green/yellow flashes to any addressable Neopixel LED element/array. So you can have orientation LEDs of any color (like red-front, green-back of the Phantom), that also blink red/green/yellow (or any colors you want) whenever the NAZA LED blinks. It does NOT interfere with the NAZA, LED, or USB connection function.

With 48 LEDs, the entire setup is 35g installed. With smaller light bars or individual LEDs placed on the NAZA, it would likely be under 25g.

Now that you've shown that the E300 ESCs fit inside the Phantom shell, there's very little reason for me to NOT make the swap out, port the LED mod to the Phantom, and start experimenting with 4S power

 

[OI Photography]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

and start experimenting with 4S power

Good lord man, let us digest one exciting idea at a time at least

My mouth is now watering too at the idea of putting the E300 kit and your mod in my 1.5...in fact I think that will be the conversion that finally lets it live up to the new designation.

I need to get my mind around that first, before I even start trying to conceptualize 4S on a Phantom.

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

My newest endeavor is going to start a chain reaction. When I built the Kong I bought the "6 pack" E300 set up & NAZA V2 kit. Liked it so much bought another 6pak Naza & Futaba RX. Now I have enough motors for 2 (which conveniently have another P2 shell) might try doing the retract mode also - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTcs5LmsXao

 

[PJA]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

OH MAN! You guys are making it hard for me to keep up...

Unbelievable ideas floating around on this thread. Now I'm going to have to open up my Phantom again and ponder the possibilities to transform it to another version Phantom............

What do you say... Should we name it a Phantom 2.5 this time? :?

 

[Rallyeman]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Hey guys! Wanted to share my ambitious setup.. Its a two-operator phantom v1.5, that will be carrying a DYS 3 axis gimbal and a smaller sony 600TVL mini fpv cam for the phantom operator. Will be using two futaba 8FG, and obviously two receivers, the stock p2 receiver for the phantom operator and a orangerx rx for the camera operator and ofcourse there will be dual video transmitters..Thats a lot of weight right there, so i decided to spend couple of days over the ecalx.ch and find the most efficient motor/prop setup i can buy. So i got myself the tmotors 3506-25 650kv (yes, pancakes ) that weights only 70gr and can spin 11-12" props with 3s and 4s bats with 14A max. I also chose the APC 12x3.8 sf as they seem to be very efficient with this motor combo. Did i mention the HK afro slim 20A simonk ESC? They are on the way, hoping they will fit my shell. The only thing keeping me from using 4s battery now is the mainboard. I've heard it cant take 4s power so i am considering a power constributor as a future upgrade!
My first flight test with the current setup (Thunderpower G8 5400mah bat, stock ESC, 12x3.8 props, tmotors 3506-25 650kv, boscam ts352 & antenna, pmu V2, Iosd) gave me near 28minutes hovering (landing at 10.4v). I didnt calibrate my new thunderpower battery through the naza software, should i see improvements after this? The 27.50" felt like a century compared to my 16min. phantom 2. But flight times will be reduced when gimbal/gopro/2nd fpv cam/etc add their weight. I will be happy with 15minutes, really! But cant wait to try 4s batteries..they will give me double thrust, hence a huge improvement in flight times.

PS: Didnt mess with the gains yet, since i am waitting for all parts to come in. Any ideas or good article to read on this? In my test flight there was little to no wind, and the phantom's behaviour was great (impressive i would say), tried some fast movements etc and it felt solid!

 

[DeweyAXD]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Great work there Ralleyman.... nice to see a twist on the P1.5! That thing is a beast thats for sure! I like the fact you've gone the Phantom route on this rather than a F450 frame too and I bet you the Phantom flys better if you can keep the C.G in check.

There are lots of gains tweaking videos out there but personaly I never found the 'perfect' one. Get yourself a BTU and life becomes a lot easier to tweak them. With a setup like that I'd imagine you will be turning the gains down more than up. The rotational force of a 12" on a small frame like that will likely make yawing around the most 'brutal' event of the lot. With the BTU you can simply start at default at lower them mid flight. Personally I find the NAZA is a little restrictive on this because the 'Yaw' gain itself is only for stabilisation... there is no attitude gain that controls yaw spefically and that is what you'll really need. Lowering the attitude gains themselves will help though.

will give me double thrust, hence a huge improvement in flight times.

I'd be careful with this. You need to find a very efficient 4s or you'll just undo all your work with the weight of an extra cell.... you will get more punch for sure but that won't always mean more flight time as your motors will be spinning faster, working harder, getting hotter etc etc. Flight time comes from MaH, punch comes from voltage.

Either way its great work! Keep us all posted in here on progress with the gimbals!

P.S You clearly need a d3wey P2 Battery door though :mrgreen: :lol: (I'm in danger of fellow mods O.I and El G banning me for advertising at this rate :lol: )

 

[ElGuano]

Ralleyman, I love it! Nicely done.

Iirc the voltage regulator on the stock mainboard is happy with 4s power, it's the stock ESCs that can't handle it. So if you're replacing those with Afros you should be fine.

27+ min is great for a hover time with that extended setup. I get 30.1 minutes with stock 9443s and a 5400 to 10.5v loaded, and no doubt yours is significantly heavier.

I've seen extended and x8 phantoms lift several pounds of payload, can't wait to see how your dual-operator setup turns out; have you thought of a lightbridge?

 

[Rallyeman]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Great work there Ralleyman.... nice to see a twist on the P1.5! That thing is a beast thats for sure! I like the fact you've gone the Phantom route on this rather than a F450 frame too and I bet you the Phantom flys better if you can keep the C.G in check.

Well it wont really be a phantom with all these upgrades, but the phantom shell will remain lol! I just love the toy-look.

There are lots of gains tweaking videos out there but personaly I never found the 'perfect' one. Get yourself a BTU and life becomes a lot easier to tweak them. With a setup like that I'd imagine you will be turning the gains down more than up. The rotational force of a 12" on a small frame like that will likely make yawing around the most 'brutal' event of the lot. With the BTU you can simply start at default at lower them mid flight. Personally I find the NAZA is a little restrictive on this because the 'Yaw' gain itself is only for stabilisation... there is no attitude gain that controls yaw spefically and that is what you'll really need. Lowering the attitude gains themselves will help though.

BTU will help i am sure, though i am not sure of the gain adjustment. Yes, the thrust from these motors/props is increased compared to stock so i will have to reduce gains, but on the other hand, due to the nature of this motor/prop combo (slow fly), wind will be a problem, and despite the extended arms, the naza should be adjusted to correct angle faster than stock. No idea how to achieve this - completely noob in gain adjustment. :roll:

I'd be careful with this. You need to find a very efficient 4s or you'll just undo all your work with the weight of an extra cell.... you will get more punch for sure but that won't always mean more flight time as your motors will be spinning faster, working harder, getting hotter etc etc. Flight time comes from MaH, punch comes from voltage.

You are right for the 4s, thrust improves but amp draw increases. I will study more into this! :!:

Either way its great work! Keep us all posted in here on progress with the gimbals!
P.S You clearly need a d3wey P2 Battery door though :mrgreen: :lol: (I'm in danger of fellow mods O.I and El G banning me for advertising at this rate :lol: )

I will keep you updated, and i will need a door like this very soon so i will pm you..
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1733...ard-version.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

Ralleyman, I love it! Nicely done.
Iirc the voltage regulator on the stock mainboard is happy with 4s power, it's the stock ESCs that can't handle it. So if you're replacing those with Afros you should be fine.
27+ min is great for a hover time with that extended setup. I get 30.1 minutes with stock 9443s and a 5400 to 10.5v loaded, and no doubt yours is significantly heavier.
I've seen extended and x8 phantoms lift several pounds of payload, can't wait to see how your dual-operator setup turns out; have you thought of a lightbridge?

Hey there ElGuano. OrfeasGR from rcgroups!
I didnt know that the phantom 1.1 board can take 4s, impressive! The DJI stock ESC are rated 3/4s if i am not mistaken, so why no-one tried 4s until now? *edit*: i am mistaken, stock esc are rated 3s
Your flight times are ridiculously long, nice job! I guess my setup is more heavyweight-friendly, and will be more efficient carrying all that weight, right? Or i will revert to stock motors and 9432 lol

Wish me luck! :idea:

 

[ElGuano]

Re: Video: Fitted my Phantom v1 into a Phantom 2 shell (easy

Hey there ElGuano. OrfeasGR from rcgroups!
I didnt know that the phantom 1.1 board can take 4s, impressive! The DJI stock ESC are rated 3/4s if i am not mistaken, so why no-one tried 4s until now? *edit*: i am mistaken, stock esc are rated 3s
Your flight times are ridiculously long, nice job! I guess my setup is more heavyweight-friendly, and will be more efficient carrying all that weight, right? Or i will revert to stock motors and 9432 lol

Wish me luck! :idea:

Oh howdy!

I've seen 4-5 4S Phantoms. If you can get ahold of him, ping Phantom604 on RCGroups, he's run a few 4S configs on his Phantom. Most people replace or add a capacitor to their ESCs to buffer for 4S, some have successfully run without modification (but I would never do that).

The relationship between volts/amps is a bit more complex than V/mAh when it comes to flight times. IIRC 4S actually reduces current requirements. Power (watts) is volts x amps. If you increase the voltage (4S), you drop the amperage needed to achieve the same power, PLUS you benefit from lower line loss, which lets you use more of your usable battery charge. So while a 4S carries an extra cell, it typically has a ~25% efficiency boost over 3S, and on many motor/ESC/prop combos you get more flight time on a 3000mah 4S pack than with a 4000mah 3S. That's something I really want to test out for myself though, I suspect it is quite situation-specific in reality.