The most thought-provoking thread I've read on this forum (and not a single grammatical or spelling error in it so far!!). Thanks Jim Roof for getting it started and thanks to the rest of you for chiming in.
The most thought-provoking thread I've read on this forum (and not a single grammatical or spelling error in it so far!!). Thanks Jim Roof for getting it started and thanks to the rest of you for chiming in.
That's a typo, not a spelling error. Look how close P and L are to each other on the keyboard (LOL).From post #16 above:
"... Imagine that, the MOST POLULAR photo website in the world blocks photos from cameras."
At least one spelling error (POPULAR, not POLULAR).
Just kidding around... You're right, it's a great thread.
Jim, I really appreciate your addressing the issue. But we should give these new shooters some suggestions about where to get some pricing guidelines. ASMP has a good white paper on determining the value of photography. There must be other resources. For commercial real estate developers, I charge $1200 a day + expenses. Drone photos are an additional $100 ea. But ultimately it depends on the usage rights licensed by the client.
Get worried, the big arch firms are all requiring photographers to sign contracts that are buyouts. I recently had to tell one of the world's largest to take a hike.
Paul Dingman
Www.dingmanphoto.com
Jim - with all due respect, I dont want to. I want to be a better photographer and videographer but I have zero interest in becoming a professinoal.
Wedding photographers? OMG, WEDDING Photographers? After television evangelists, insurance annuity sales people, and carnies, they are the worst people on the planet. They play off of a naïve young couples inexperienc and emotions, filling them with nonsince like this, "Six months after the wedding the photos will be the only thing you will have to remember your special day." OMG - I'll punch a photographer square in the nose if they tell one of my kids that in front of me. Reality is six months after the wedding the couple will be in couples therapy discussing how they are arguing because of how deep in debt they are due to how much they spent on their wedding.
Here is what they really need...one great photo of just the two of them right after the wedding. Thats it. All the bologna of wheeling over grandma so we have "proof" she had not kicked the bucket yet, or pulling uncle Jim with his clip-on tie into a church photo before he gets to the reception hall and passes out from taking advantage of drinking too much free beer, all those photos will be looked at once when the couple gets them back from the photographer then never again.
My suggestion is if you enjoy photography and videography then make it a hobby. If you want to make money, find something else that gives you the chance to succeed.
Out of curiosity, how are you enforcing agreed to usage rights? Do you provide only watermarked photos? Do you embed copyright info in metadata? Do you tell the client up front "for $××× this can only be used in that one ad we discussed"?
This is a side of the business I think most of us newer people are not sufficiently knowledgable about, so it'd be helpful if you could share.
Out of curiosity, how are you enforcing agreed to usage rights? Do you provide only watermarked photos? Do you embed copyright info in metadata? Do you tell the client up front "for $××× this can only be used in that one ad we discussed"?
This is a side of the business I think most of us newer people are not sufficiently knowledgable about, so it'd be helpful if you could share.
A couple clarifications requested!!:
> in addition to the owner of the facility that contracted me, had a solid half dozen other firms that were interested in LICENSING the images from me.
Were those competing firms wanting commercial license??? Photographed firm willing to sign release to let competing firms use images of itself?!
> I just took my P4 Pro up...given enough light and shooting around f/7
f/7 on a 1" sensor??? Doesn't diffraction start kicking above f/4?!!!
(f/7 = what full frame -- about f/20? f/4 = closer to f/8 full frame?)
Thanks in advance.
For what most of what Paul and I shoot, there is a trust relationship with the client. 90% of my billing is repeat clientele. We discuss the rights of use and copyright ownership and in 35 years I have only agreed to give up copyright twice, based upon trade secrets and non-disclosure concerns. Funny thing is, in both of these cases the client (who legally owned the images lock, stock and barrel) agreed that I would be able to collect money and distribute the images to third parties. Ie., they owned them legally, but I was treated as if I owned them, financially.
I have one image that has been misused hundreds of times by hundreds of parties. That cat just exploded out of the bag so fast that I could not even think of keeping up with it. I just decided to let it go since all of the violators were bloggers and small travel agencies.
So, the answer is 'yes', I tell my clients what rights they have and they are fine with that 90% of the time. I have fairly liberal terms of licensing so that might account for that high rate of acceptance.
About the licensing. Yes. Many were in fact competing firms. Both of the GC's compete and I am sure that the two engineering firms do as well. And, none of them were in a position to tell the others that they could not license from me because MY client was the owner. Truth be known, this project MIGHT be the largest single pharmaceutical project in the history of the U.S. It was a 1.2 billion dollar facility. EVERYONE involved wanted photos to market their involvement. Prestige drives a lot of my third party sales.
As for the f/7. Perhaps I am a creature of habit. I have not done the math for this focal length and sensor size. And maybe diffraction does start up where you say. I just know that I almost always shoot at f/8 to f/11 on my 5Ds bodies. I will do some tests today. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I have owned my P4 Pro for just 2 weeks so I am really just now getting my feet wet.
I am not a professional photographer, but a 45 year, experienced and motivated and quite educated semi-pro. I get really frustrated with the "I'm a professional". Please don't tell me that "I am a "Don't Even Fool With" photographer!
You "Pros" are the only "Good Professional Photographers", is a joke! While I do indeed appreciate and highly respect your work, I feel quite a waist, but will still dedicate myself to "Good Photography". Please don't say "He's not to be Bothered "!!!
I definitely agree. As an amateur, I do the same. When I do sell my work, e.g. in art shops, or when taking images for real estate firms, I do charge a fair market price so that I am not undercutting my friends who do depend on photography sales to make a living.Can we agree there are photographers and there are picture takers? I am a picture taker - a hobbyist - for more than three score years. I respect the photographers, admire their work, and do not begrudge how and how much they are compensated for their work. I get my money's worth from my hobby by sharing my pictures with family and friends for their enjoyment and amusement. I think there are many others like me. Am I right?
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