Radio Suggestions? ICOM? Sporty's? Yaesu? Walmart (kidding)?

The FCC issues two kinds of license - station licenses and operator licenses. For many years, hams had both. There was an implied station license for radios at the ham's residence, and any off-site installation (in the ham's car, for instance) required an application to the FCC. The station license concept is no longer part of the ham regulations (FCC part 97).

Similarly, back in the day, aviation communication used both licenses - the aircraft had a station license, and the aviator had an operator's license in the form of a Restricted Radiotelephone Permit (mine is still in my wallet). The operator license requirement for aviators was dropped at some point, much as was done for CB operators.

Amusing side note: the call sign of an aircraft station is the aircraft's N-number, and these sometimes fall into the same format as ham callsigns. There have been cases of ham licenses being cancelled because someone taking an aircraft out of service clicked the wrong button or checked the wrong box on an FCC form. I happen to share a call sign with a Boeing Business Jet.

To return to the topic of this thread, it might be possible for a drone operator to file an FCC Form 605 to apply for an aviation ground station license (probably the best category fit would be Unicom Station, I don't know if the 605 is that detailed). I don't know how such a station would identify itself. Actual call signs (which I assume are issued) are seldom used - most ground stations identify by location and/or function - Boston Center, Marlboro Unicom, etc.

If somebody cares to try this, I'd love to know how the FCC (and the FAA, since the FCC coordinates with them) react.

Something just occurred to me - most, if not all, aviation ground stations operate on a single, published, frequency. I have no idea whether this frequency is a provision of the license (and therefore cannot be changed), and if so is selected by the applicant, the FCC, or the FAA.

We need clarification on this whole issue from the involved federal agencies.
 
You know what? After all this discussion and uncertainty, IF a license is indeed required (which may be $70 or more, and may even require a HAM license) I guess I'll just get an air band scanner. Not giving up on the transceiver idea, but will wait and see what specific FCC regulations materialize in the future...and save some bucks.

So - here is the protocol I will continue to use (have only needed to do this about 8 times since June of 2015 - non-commercially) when in or under controlled areas until this is straightened out...PLEASE chime in if I am doing this incorrectly:

1.
Days (if possible) before flying in or under controlled airspace, contact the controlling authority by email or phone and ask for authorization for the intended remote pilot, location, altitude and time window.
2.
If granted, proceed in accordance with authorized plan. Obviously, you will not be flying or have authorization where any manned aircraft will be.
3.
Prior to take off (this will be requested within the authorization), contact the controlling authority to ADVISE who you are, your location, and that you are about to fly. Unless they have a current flight restriction, they will acknowledge and thank you.
4.
You fly your mission and exercise “sense and avoid” during the entire flight; YOU must avoid all other traffic, even other drones. (Note - IF there is an emergency or flyaway, call and advise the controlling authority.)
5.
After landing, advise the controlling authority that you have landed, and thank them.
6.
Done. Go home.

Sound right?
 
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from FCC.GOV

Aircraft Stations
The Telecommunications Act of 1996, which became law on February 8, 1996, brought about fundamental changes in the licensing of aircraft radio stations. Aircraft radio stations include all types of radio transmitting equipment used aboard an aircraft, e.g., two-way radiotelephones, radar, radionavigation equipment, and emergency locator transmitters (ELTs). The primary purpose of aircraft radio equipment is to ensure safety of aircraft in flight.
Operations
You may only use your hand-held aircraft VHF radio in your aircraft under the terms of your aircraft license. You are required to have a separate Ground Station license to operate your radio on the ground.
 
[/QUOTE] IF a license is indeed required (which may be $70 or more, and may even require a HAM license) [/QUOTE]

Amateur Radio licenses (HAM) are required only to transmit on frequencies allocated to the Amateur Radio Service. There is no overlap in Aeronautical frequencies and Amateur Radio frequencies. One has nothing to do with the other. No HAM license is ever required to use aircraft radios unless you have aircraft radios that can operate on amateur frequencies for example High Frequency long distance communication.
 
That's TE="Falcon900, post: 923128, member: 54313"]from FCC.GOV

Aircraft Stations
The Telecommunications Act of 1996, which became law on February 8, 1996, brought about fundamental changes in the licensing of aircraft radio stations. Aircraft radio stations include all types of radio transmitting equipment used aboard an aircraft, e.g., two-way radiotelephones, radar, radionavigation equipment, and emergency locator transmitters (ELTs). The primary purpose of aircraft radio equipment is to ensure safety of aircraft in flight.
Operations
You may only use your hand-held aircraft VHF radio in your aircraft under the terms of your aircraft license. You are required to have a separate Ground Station license to operate your radio on the ground.[/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking by my earlier post. I really don't see a need for a bunch of drone flyers congesting the system with useless dribble . If when I was flying and I needed info by radio, thank GOD we didn't have drone flyers chatting on the radio. Remember what happened to cb radio. So many abused it and used it like a chat line. I guess the FCC was overwhelmed they said...screw it...let's move on. Hopefully the cbers won't reproduce.
 
Do you really think it is wise to have the frequencies used by your local tower jammed by hobbyists flying their toys under 400 feet?
 
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A few thoughts here:

The FAA does not recommend remote pilots transmit except in an emergency.

There is no category of FCC license that covers remote pilots currently, thus no way to transmit legally.

Even if it were legal:

What callsign would you use?

How would you identify yourself to ATC, and what would you say?


Bottom line, like much else, this will require more thought by the FAA. It will also require collaboration with the FCC.

Maverick... Duh


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
 
But the 107 exam, or least mine did, had a question or two on aircraft communications. Seems to be a muddy area. But suppose you are doing an antenna inspection when you are permitted fly up to 400 above the top of the structure in a remote area. Couldn't / shouldn't you announce on Unicom? Not really sure how far your 5w transmitter sitting on the ground will carry anyway. Given guy wires and such, you may launch a far LOS distance away. (LOS for me however I have found is around 1500-2000 feet)
 
Another thought: if you register your drone with the FAA and get an N-number assigned to it (something I read recently suggests this is possible), you could then apply for an Aircraft Station license. Given that the pilot of a drone is (by definition) remote from the aircraft, it seems reasonable that the radio could be allowed to be remote also.

I can also envision sophisticated drones a few years hence having actual aviation radios onboard, with control and audio piggybacked on the telecommand channels.
 
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But the 107 exam, or least mine did, had a question or two on aircraft communications. Seems to be a muddy area. But suppose you are doing an antenna inspection when you are permitted fly up to 400 above the top of the structure in a remote area. Couldn't / shouldn't you announce on Unicom? Not really sure how far your 5w transmitter sitting on the ground will carry anyway. Given guy wires and such, you may launch a far LOS distance away. (LOS for me however I have found is around 1500-2000 feet)
No, no manned aircraft will be within 400 ft. of the structure. Too unsafe.
 
Another thought: if you register your drone with the FAA and get an N-number assigned to it (something I read recently suggests this is possible), you could then apply for an Aircraft Station license. Given that the pilot of a drone is (by definition) remote from the aircraft, it seems reasonable that the radio could be allowed to be remote also.

Except that an aircraft station is ABOARD an aircraft by FCC definition.


Aircraft station. A mobile station in the aeronautical mobile service other than a survival craft station, located on board an aircraft.​

(47 CFR Part 87)
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations
 
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But the 107 exam, or least mine did, had a question or two on aircraft communications. Seems to be a muddy area. But suppose you are doing an antenna inspection when you are permitted fly up to 400 above the top of the structure in a remote area. Couldn't / shouldn't you announce on Unicom? Not really sure how far your 5w transmitter sitting on the ground will carry anyway. Given guy wires and such, you may launch a far LOS distance away. (LOS for me however I have found is around 1500-2000 feet)
Correct to advise them, but apparently by phone at this point. Hopefully that will change. IF you are inside or under the controlled airspace where authorization has been previously obtained, you should advise the controlling authority when you are there. At least, eight out of eight times and three different airports so far, that is what they told me to do. And I used my cell phone to do just that at takeoff and at landing a few minutes later, per their request. They need to know what's going on just like you do. If there is no controlling authority available, no tower, cant get the manager, etc, then just go for it and be aware of and avoid all hazards like always.

So, your advisory is a courtesy they ask for when they gave you the authorization (again, that is my experience anyway). Sure, they know you are not planning to go anywhere near another aircraft, BUT there is this unplanned thing called an emergency (flyaway or collision) .....Right? They have to know you are in the neighborhood.

I honestly think that when the FCC station rules were created, they had no idea that remote pilots were going to come along in the future; they did not anticipate us. I guess us 107 guys - and hobbyists - will have to live with that for a while.
 
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Except that an aircraft station is ABOARD an aircraft by FCC definition.


Aircraft station. A mobile station in the aeronautical mobile service other than a survival craft station, located on board an aircraft.​

(47 CFR Part 87)
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that I thought this was possible under current regulations; it would require a change in those regulations.

Remember: back in the dark ages it was assumed that the _pilot_ was aboard the aircraft :)
 
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Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that I thought this was possible under current regulations; it would require a change in those regulations.

Remember: back in the dark ages it was assumed that the _pilot_ was aboard the aircraft :)


Yup. Short version, the FAA slapped together what it quickly could ("least harm") under deadline from Congress. They didn't coordinate with the FCC, so the FCC hasn't addressed it either. I expect that things may/will evolve over time. The situation we have is not perfect, and the FAA knows this.
 
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I'm sure this communication is legal under FCC rules:

sUAS Pilot: "Burbank Tower UAS Pilot, Emergency, Over"
Burbank Tower: UAS Pilot Burbank Tower, Go Ahead:
sUAS Pilot: "Burbank Tower I'm 2.5 miles South of the airport and have lost control of my aircraft. It is heading in the direction of Burbank Airport at approximately 200' AGL"
Burbank Tower: "Roger"
Burbank Tower then takes appropriate action to protect the manned aircraft operating under tower control. If you were operating under a COA, the tower would already be aware of your likely presence and position.
The same scenario would apply at an uncontrolled airport with Unicom or CTAF communications.
That is why, I am carrying my handheld aviation radio during sUAS operations
.
 
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I'm sure this communication is legal under FCC rules:

sUAS Pilot: "Burbank Tower UAS Pilot, Emergency, Over"
Burbank Tower: UAS Pilot Burbank Tower, Go Ahead:
sUAS Pilot: "Burbank Tower I'm 2.5 miles South of the airport and have lost control of my aircraft. It is heading in the direction of Burbank Airport at approximately 200' AGL"
Burbank Tower: "Roger"
Burbank Tower then takes appropriate action to protect the manned aircraft operating under tower control. If you were operating under a COA, the tower would already be aware of your likely presence and position.
The same scenario would apply at an uncontrolled airport with Unicom or CTAF communications.
That is why, I am carrying my handheld aviation radio during sUAS operations
.


When I spoke to the FAA, they had no real sense of how this would work. Your scenario is plausible from a procedural standpoint, and the FCC allows wide latitude in emergency situations, but there have been cases of unlicensed radio usage in emergency situations where the FCC found the offender liable for one reason or another and fined them.

The easiest solution in my mind is for the FCC to amend the definition of an aircraft station to include any station either controlling or directly supporting the flight of an aircraft from the ground. This would not only account for UAS pilots but also for CFIs supporting student pilots from the ground. The only sticky question then becomes callsigns.
 
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That's very true, regarding emergency transmissions, isn't it?

Hey - I have an idea, seriously. Let's all write to the FCC and request an ability to transmit non-emergency advisories in the air bands, just like any other pilots. Emphasize advisories of ID, position, takeoff and landing which they asked for in the obtained authorization, not so much instructions (we do not need, nor will ATC care to normally provide instructions to a sub 400-ft droner anyway). I know I saw the addresses in some of the links. Might want to "copy" the request whatever office of the FAA that concentrates on communications....How about that, rather than sitting in the bleachers and waiting to see what happens?

Shouldn't hurt - may even be useful? In fact, the cross country winged drone operators operating under COAs surely use the radio? My 2 cents is that this is inevitable - sooner or later - anyway. What do you think?
 
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What?! In a word, Yes. I had no idea we could not. I am NOT disputing it at all, but Please tell me where it says we cannot do that. I am very surprised - stunned - that would not be allowed. Student pilots and all other pilots are certainly permitted and expected to use radios (right?) so why wouldn't a remote pilot be at least allowed to contact ATC simply to advise them of his position and intention at the appointed time?

XYZ Tower, Drone charlie papa kilo, authorized location 1 mile southwest, 20 minute flight expected 002 maximum beginning now 1200 local. Will advise when done. Thank you. drone charlie papa kilo.

As to getting authorized as far in advance as possible, absolutely! But ATCs require you to contact the tower before you take off and after you land when you are there at the set time in or below their airspace.That part I DO know from experience. I just assumed a radio would be far better than a phone. Shame on me if radio use is forbidden. Seriously, that is a real surprise. Not kidding. ...and Ham license???? Really? Way back when I was a student (only soloed), I surely did not have a Ham license. Must have missed that class.
Your Tail Number is licensed to broadcast.
 
Drones don't have a tail number. They (should) have a UAS registration number, and they are not the same thing.

Second, even if a drone had a tail number, the operator is no more licensed by the FCC to transmit than a regular pilot is when he is not aboard an aircraft.


Stations ABOARD aircraft are licensed by rule. Stations on the ground require an individual license, and remote pilots are not a licenseable category - yet.

Bottom line, don't transmit as a UAS operator to avoid getting in trouble with the FCC.

This post edited to reduce butthurt.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
 
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After a lot of research, it turns out we cannot contact the ATC's anyway for normal things like giving them advisories of our presence or any kind of authorization requests (with the exception of communicating about emergencies). The tower organizations have been directed to refer all remote 107 pilots to the FAA UAS website beginning October 3, 2016. That is stated very clearly in a "JO" directive from HQ to all the tower folks, dated August 19. All part of trying put things in order in these early days of Part 107.

I'm still getting an air band scanner for situational awareness...and for enjoyment.
 
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