Phantom 4 Pro Video File Size?

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Hi All.
Why are the P4P video file size so big.
If I compare with files using Gopro 4 with same video definition.
Example both cameras on FHD 1920X1080P and filming generally the same scenery.

I have these results.
P4P File Size 6.8 GB for 15 Min 30 Sec.
GoPro File Size 2.9 GB for 19 Min 28 Sec.

Approximate average per minute P4P uses 438 MB per minute and the GoPro 148 MB per minute.
Again using same format.
The reason I am asking is that I am using Premiere Pro in Post Production and these huge file sizes takes me
hour to Render and and Export. And I have a good computer.
Any of you guys know how to reduce file size while keeping same video format, specially with the P4P camera?

Thanks.
Ing.
 
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Have you checked the frame rate of each?
30 FPS is more than adequate for most purposes, unless you plan to do some slo-mo stuff.
Also, differing formats use different compression codecs, which means same resolution file sizes can vary an awful lot.
Here's a program that might be useful to you:
HandBrake: Open Source Video Transcoder
It's awesome, and it's free.
If your software allows it, try proxy editing. That way it uses "sample" files up until the final render. It can save you a lot of time.
 
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Fly Dawg

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Are they the same file format? MP4, MOV, etc..etc... May depend on compression and codec.Are the actual "scenes" comparable?
 
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A good computer should take approximately 8 minutes to proxy render one 5 minute 4k 30 fps clip. So maybe 4 clips for a 15 minute flight will take around a half hour to proxy render so you can begin editing the footage. A 15 minute video final render depends on too much to say, but I generally get 1 1/2 to 2 hours for a 15+ length video with mixed footage that usually incorporates lens correction for gopro material, color work, exposure work, etc. I render super high quality, always. Video is a drag. It takes time and patience but you have to keep the quality high for renders and that means waiting for it to do so. As to why the phantom files are larger, just compare the bit depth numbers.

If you're having a difficult time with only 1080 files, your computer isn't as capable as you may think.
 
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Have you checked the frame rate of each?
30 FPS is more than adequate for most purposes,.
Also, differing formats use different compression codecs, ...
HandBrake: Open Source Video Transcoder
It's awesome, and it's free.

Hi Techcop, thanks for your comments. Both are at 30FPS both are .MP4. Yes I am aware of HandBrake Tried it to compress files
before editing, but compressing all videos takes a lot of time to, and I can't compress to much because I would lose quality.
Let me know if you have any other ideas.

Ing.
 
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Are they the same file format? MP4, MOV, etc..etc... May depend on compression and codec.Are the actual "scenes" comparable?

Yep both at 30FPS and both MP4. I was filming the same scenery, so the scenes are very much alike.

Ing.
 
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A good computer should take approximately 8 minutes to proxy render one 5 minute 4k 30 fps clip. So maybe 4 clips for a 15 minute flight will take around a half hour to proxy render so you can begin editing the footage. A 15 minute video final render depends on too much to say, but I generally get 1 1/2 to 2 hours for a 15+ length video with mixed footage that usually incorporates lens correction for gopro material, color work, exposure work, etc. I render super high quality, always. Video is a drag. It takes time and patience but you have to keep the quality high for renders and that means waiting for it to do so. As to why the phantom files are larger, just compare the bit depth numbers.

If you're having a difficult time with only 1080 files, your computer isn't as capable as you may think.

Thanks Shockwave.
Computer Spec. Wiindows 10 Inter(4) Core(TM) i7 CPU 950 " 3.07GHz Ram: 12GB 64 Bit oS
Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 TI 2 GB
How can I find bit deph numbers for those different files?.

Ing.
 
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View the file details in explorer when you import them. If you can't see the details, enable that view. Or you can right click on them and view properties. But explorer details view is best. What editor are you using? Avoid converting any video for editing purposes. Ideally you want to proxy render in your software, which creates a lower resolution to work with and then renders full resolution in the end. Each editor is a bit different in that respect. I don't use anything special. I use magix movie edit pro 2016, which has since become a Sony product. But it's really great, imo.
 
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View the file details in explorer.....
What editor are you using? .........
Thanks again Shockwave.
Got the numbers from File Explorer
P4P / Gopro
Data Rate 59928kbps / 19989kbps
Total Bitrate 59928kbps / 20117kbps

I am using Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 and also Davinci Resolve and also Filmorama Wondershare witch is a very basic editor.

Let me know.
Ing.
 
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The difference is bitrate. Quite simple.

Resolution doesn't determine file size, bit rate does. And if you're having issues working with the files, don't further compress them. Uncompress them into DnXHD or Cineform, then load into Resolve or whatever.
 
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The difference is bitrate. Quite simple.

Resolution doesn't determine file size, bit rate does. And if you're having issues working with the files, don't further compress them. Uncompress them into DnXHD or Cineform, then load into Resolve or whatever.
I am not sure I understand. I was under the impression that when we compressed files they became smaller. Now you are telling me to uncompress them?. I am ok to try but I don't know DnXHD nor Cineform where can I get this?

Ing.
 
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Hi Techcop, thanks for your comments. Both are at 30FPS both are .MP4. Yes I am aware of HandBrake Tried it to compress files
before editing, but compressing all videos takes a lot of time to, and I can't compress to much because I would lose quality.
Let me know if you have any other ideas.

Ing.
MP4 is kinda like saying "whitefish". Leaves a lot unsaid. The compression scheme must be different somehow, if the content, resolution and frame rate are the same

Try opening a sample of each in Handbrake and see more details. Look for bit rate.
 
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I am not sure I understand. I was under the impression that when we compressed files they became smaller. Now you are telling me to uncompress them?. I am ok to try but I don't know DnXHD nor Cineform where can I get this?

Ing.

Do some Googling on "mezzanine codecs".

Some quick background for you:

- h264 and h265 (aka, HEVC) are heavily compressed codecs, in that the image data for each frame is "compressed", something akin (in concept) to compressing a RAW image into a JPEG.
- A codec like Cineform or DNxHD are "mezzanine codecs", in that, while they still compress each frame of video, they do so in such a way that the loss/effect on the video is extremely minimal.
- Mezzanine codecs will produce files that are 5x-7x larger (or more!) than the original h264/h265 files, so they are NOT for archiving or "keeping" your footage, they are solely used as "intermediaries" during the editing and color grading process.

Why should you care out mezzanine codecs:

- When you're editing in Resolve for example... each time you scrub to a part of the video, your computer must do work to "decompress" the h264/h265. Then it must do work to apply whatever grades and effects you're working on, then it needs to render that to your preview. Mezzanine codecs like Cineform or DNxHD, while still "compressed", are significantly easier for your computer to "decompress" when working with them in Resolve (or any other grading/editing software). So basically... when you use a mezzanine file as your source, your computer can spend significantly less time decoding the source media, which allows it to spend much more time on things like applying your grades/effects to the preview.

- This also carries over to your workflow. If you're grading in Resolve, then want to move your graded content into Premier or wherever, the computer has to do this:
- - Source video in h264 -> Decompress -> Uncompressed Frame -> Apply Effects + Grades -> Compress -> graded video in h264 -> Premiere/NLE-of-your-choosing

- The "decompress" and "compress" steps above are EXTREMELY CPU intensive. Often significantly more so than the actual grading or effects aspects.
If you start w/ a video file transcoded to a mezzanine format, you save a lot of CPU cycles on the initial decompress, and if you render back to mezzanine codecs for importing into another program, you'll also save many CPU cycles there. Obviously, your final product will eventually need to be rendered back into h264/h265, but that only happens at the very end of your workflow.

- So basically, the mezzanine codecs are for carrying around a "less compressed" copy of your video, that's easier Resolve/Premier/etc to work with. The other upside, is that if you go from h264 -> resolve color grading -> h264 -> premier -> h264... you'll lose quality along the way each time you render to h264. DNxHD/Cineform allow for multiple rounds of import/export before you start to lose quality.

Reasons why you SHOULDN'T care about mezzanine codecs:

- While I started out w/ DNxHD, and eventually moved to Cineform as mezzanine codecs and used to transcode all my useful incoming footage w/ Adobe Media Encoder... I also recently realized that with my latest hardware upgrades, my desktop computer is just *barely* fast enough to handle working in Resolve directly from a h264 or h265 source. And since in many cases, I'm not doing much editing, and rendering my final deliverable from Resolve, I don't actually *need* mezzanine codecs at all. This definitely saves time, but when I'm not at home, and my desktop is unavailable, I do have to use mezzanine codecs for my laptop to even have a chance at working w/ 4K clips in Resolve. And even with that all said, it's still much smoother working in Resolve w/ a Cineform or DNxHD source file. Things like previewing grades/effects, scrubbing through footage, final render, etc... are significantly faster than when working with the original h264/h265 files directly.

- For reference, my desktop specs are quite high-end for a general user, and sort of medium-end for a professional video editor.
- - Specs are: 4790K "Haswell" @ 4.6 GHz, 32GB of RAM, Samsung 850 Pro SSD as scratch drive, and a GTX 1080 for GPU.

~~~

So I hope that all sheds some light on the reason for using mezzanine codecs!

And to more directly answer your question... yes, this use of mezzanine codecs makes the files "bigger" in terms of file size, but more "digestible" in terms of what your computer can handle. Your computer probably doesn't care so much about the "file size", it cares about how much CPU work goes into decoding that file. You, as a human, have conflated "file size" with "file complexity", which is NOT the way your computer sees it at all.

Also, the reason your GoPro footage is smaller in file size (and probably easier for your computer to handle) is that the bit rate is lower.

A video file is defined as having:

- A container format -> Typically MP4 for consumer equipment (like GoPro or Phantom 4)
- A video codec format -> Either h264 or h265/HEVC
- A frame rate -> 24 fps, 30 fps, or 60 fps generally
- A bit rate -> 100 mbit/s for P4P 4K, 60 mbit/s for GoPro 4K or P4/P3P 4K

The primary property which determines the "file size" is the bit rate.

For example... I can make a 1 minute 4K resolution file (@ 30 fps, w/ h264 in MP4), with super low bit rate, than is only a few megabytes of file size.

I can also make a 1 minute 720p resolution file (@30 fps, w/ h264 in MP4), with a super high bit rate, that is gigabytes in file size.

The difference above is all about bit rate. Aka, how much data goes into each "frame" of the video. Don't confuse that with the number of "pixels", aka, resolution, in each "frame" of video.

Hopefully that makes some sense and gives you a bit of a crash course into video files! :)

- Sam
 
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Have you ever thought about digital vault? If you keep a lot of videos on your computer I think managing your files is the most important. I'm using Future Vault since 2018 because I like to keep my files save since I am a photographer and I like to deliver what's the best for my clients. Since I started using it a lot of these kinds of problems like yours disappeared and I can work much easier. I think this can be a good option for you and you can trust them because in my opinion they are the best on the market.
 
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Most excellent explanation, Sam!
 
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I'm also thinking about it. Due to modern trends, smartphone S20 - 0.7 GB for a 1-minute video. As said above, the average computer takes approx 10 minutes to renders such videos. That's why Phantom 4 Pro is perfect especially when comparing
Cheers!
 
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