The third video is at Phantom 4crash damage flying. This shows the drone flying after only cleaning it up and installing 4 new props. The faulty gimbal can be seen here.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Phantom 4 flipped over, flew powered into ground from 200 feet!
- Thread starter wa5tef
- Start date
Sorry for dragging these out like this but I did not know any other way to list them. Here is video number 4, Phantom 4crash still in position
It shows the drone in the crash site, lights still on and ready to fly if not for the broken props.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
It shows the drone in the crash site, lights still on and ready to fly if not for the broken props.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Interesting videos. My first observation would be that there is no way that aircraft hit the ground in an inverted, powered dive from 200 ft AGL. Even just free falling from that height it would hit at around 35 m/s (78 mph) and would be in pieces.
*****Well, sorry you think that! As I repeatedly posted, if you would read ALL of them and not just a selected few, you would know that the flight data logs were not recorded. In fact none were saved from about December 5th to past the crash date. I don't have the exact dates but I have them somewhere if needed. Anyway, the video logs are not on my iPad, nor my iPhone, nor as DJI says, not on the drone! This I find hard to believe but I have no way to prove it. YOu can see from the lack of data that I have been fighting an uphill battle from day one when I first posted after DJI selectively declared it not a warranty issue. I have submitted many pages of data to them to prove my point and now with the recovered video, I can now prove that it did crash upside down and the camera and mount did dent the gray area immediately above the camrera, (while inverted). The "watered down comments" of the prior "crash" are complete baloney! I would call it what it is but this is a public site so baloney was used. Those who don't know what it is, can Google it. The prior "crash" was not the day before as some have said, but November 25th, 2016. I was flying in my front yard and accidentally flew the Phantom into a tree, fully leafed out. The props engaged the leaves causing the drone to lose lift and it fell through the leaves and small limbs to the ground. The distance to the ground was probably a maximum of 5 feet. I don't know for sure but I can find out if anyone needs this information. The drone fell onto soft ground covered with dried leaves, wet from a recent rain shower. As you can assume, I stand by my story about DJI and their refusal to return calls or emails. I included a request for the cause of the flip over in my packing box when I returned it. I asked the support team to reply and no answer. I got on the forum and got AJI-Patrick. I asked him about information and got nothing. My drone was delivered to DJI support on January 23rd. I called support again and spoke with Rio after the drone was delivered to DJI. Rio told me that as a matter of policy the Tech did look at the logs to determine the crash cause. This was on January 31st and Rio said he requested a detailed analysis and once he received it he would email me within 24 to 48 hours. He did not! I waited until February 3rd and called Rio back, he of course was not available but I left message to look up my information and call me. He did not! Around January 29th, I contacted DJI-Ken on the DJI forum. Got the same basic statement. Still no followup from him. It was on January 31 that I called Rio for the first time and got nowhere as noted above. I later discovered the private message option on the format and sent DJI-Ken a PM. Still nothing. I started researching DJI and found a string of similar cases like mine, where thee was basically no response from them about much of anything. I PM'd DJI-Ken again and still nothing. After several days of this, I gave up on him. I then received an email from April in support, stating that there were no flight records on my drone, with no explanation of any kind. I asked her by return email for more information and nothing. It would have taken any of the above contacts maybe 30 seconds to reply but NO. I still have not received any answer to any question I have repeatedly asked. On February 6th, I called DJI support again and noted that I was caller number 28 so I hung up. I emailed April again, which was a wasted effort. On a parallel note, DJI does have a rather interesting website where they post the progress of the drone. On this site, which is apparently updated daily, I noted that my drone was received on January 23rd and it was unpacked and so noted on the site. It was noted the next day that it was being analyzed for damage and on the next day, it was being repaired. The following entry showed it was being tested for performance, etc. Then the following day it was shipped out to me. Now, that is FAST SERVICE and I so noted that on the forums. However, they listed my serial number all the way through to where it was being shipped and the serial number suddenly changed! All this time, they were reporting that the drone was REPAIRED and tested. All was looking well until they shipped it. I immediately emailed April and this time, got a reply. She simply said that my drone was not repairable! And all this after I had followed it through the process on their own site. This got me to believing some of the things that I had read about. Then April noted that since my drone was not repairable, they substituted a new one for mine. OK, I thought great. At least I will be getting one that was not someone else's crashed drone. However, I repeatedly asked her about the cause of the crash and got no reply. I also PM'd DJI Natalie and DJI-Joe and same story. Nothing! Somewhere, I did find out that DJI had a record of the descent speed of 4 meters per second which translates to about 13.12 feet per second. Now why they did not have the rest of the flight data I am still wondering. The date I found out about the serial number swap was February 7th. They shipped it out on February 4th with delivery date of February 9th. As part of the information I sent to DJI included the weather conditions. It was 69.9 degrees F and partly cloudy. The wind was average of 2.5 MPH from the SSE. There was 0.11 inches of rainfall that morning and on the previous day, January 20th, we had 1.59 inches of rain which probably enabled the drone to suffer as little damage as it did, the ground being fairly soft. I emailed April again with a very pleasing request to please answer. She did not. Then, on Thursday February 9th I received the drone back. Indeed it looked new and it had no "R" on the serial number so it might really be new. I got the drone at 6pm exactly and quickly unpacked it, checked it out closely and found no issues. THEN I tried to install the propellers. They would not lock in place! I tried other propellers and still nothing. The remained loose and would easily detach. SO, I called DJI Support about 7:30 pm and asked about the problem. I spent almost 30 minutes on the phone getting asked the same questions over and over. I replied with the exact answer, over and over. Finally the rep said if I would video the motors and show him the propeller mounting arm he would mail out the parts! SO, after 30 minutes on the phone, and repeatedly asked the same question, and with a promise to email a video of the drone, did he agree to "MAIL me the necessary parts! So, having been without a drone for some 2 weeks, I now had to wait on snail mail from California. I inquired about next day air and no way. Apparently good speedy customer service did not matter to him. I was not able to understand his name so I don't know who I spoke with. SO, being a ham radio operator, I had contacts with several other drone owners and one such person lived in Tupelo, MS some 10 miles from my home. He had a Phantom 4 and a Phantom 4 Pro so he let me borrow four retainer locks off his P4 until mine arrived. By doing this, I was able to fly my "new" drone that night for a short flight to make sure everything worked on it. So, another question added to the mix:: Why did DJI not know that these parts were missing? Why was this not checked out during the "analysis and testing" of my drone as indicated on their website? These questions and countless others keep me wondering just who I was dealing with and after all this, comes dwallersv and questions my handling of my problem with DJI? I believe i this dwallersv would try to communicate with DJI with a problem then he would find out exactly what I have been dealing with over these past few weeks!
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Sorry you think so. I assume then that you know what happened? It happens that I was there and saw it all. I was amazed that it was not in pieces but it is exactly as I video'd it. If you watched all the videos you would have noticed
Hmmm, what wind resistance factor did you use?
JIm
WA5TEF
I ignored drag since it is well below terminal velocity for a small, dense object. So the free fall speed estimate would be a little high but if, as you indicated, it was in a powered dive then that would more than compensate for drag. My intent was to illustrate that the impact would have been as fast or faster than that under the conditions you described.
No - I don't know what happened, but I am pretty sure that I know what did not happen. The latter does not imply the former. From several years of looking at crash reports I've seen a pretty good body of evidence on the type and extent of damage sustained in impacts. Your aircraft appears to show damage consistent with a fall from a height much lower than you reported, on to what your video suggests was a fairly hard landing surface. I cannot explain the discrepancy between that and what you saw, or thought you saw, but it seems to me that the descent must have been more controlled and slower than you estimated, unless it actually crashed into something very soft and then bounced to where you found it - is that possible? You posted here and asked for opinions/explanations. Feel free to ignore them if they are not what you want to hear, and I won't waste any more time on the subject.
Did this by chance happen near the equator..........glad this is the only one I've heard of so far, have enough trouble trying not to crash by my own hands.
Well SAR104 and dwallersv, let me throw this at you since you apparently don't believe my story of the crash. WHY would I make up such a story? WHY would I keep posting and posting, trying to find someone who could make a Phantom tip over and become inverted, while powered on and flying? Why would I keep on and on trying to get at least one DJI employee to advise what the flight records showed? Why would I stay up to 2 and 3 am researching this problem and DJI's history of such? If I was trying to get a new drone out of DJI, why? (the one I had was in perfect shape as evidenced of my flights all through December and first 3 weeks of January) WHY would I keep on trying to find out why no flight data logs exist on my iPhone or iPad?
If you two would read all my postings, I listed the weather conditions of that day and the previous day showing some 1.7 inches of rainfall which would make the ground somewhat soggy, if not soft. This is evidenced by the mud that was embedded in one of the propeller's hubs where the prop had broken. The mud, dirt and grass pieces can be seen in the video which is on the TOP of the Phantom 4. So, it would seem that this alone proves the crash was inverted. Also had it been other than that, the damage would have been more widespread around the drone. The landing struts would have been damaged and the camera torn off the mount considering the height of the fall. Also, the video clearly shows the dented gray area immediately above the gimbal mount where the camera and mount hit it. In fact it hit with such force that the dent was made by the camera moving past its limits. I could not by hand force the camera back into that position though the dent and the camera lined up perfectly.
Now, if you two are still with me, suppose I faked the crash? I would have to had a way of slamming the drone into the ground to produce the damaged outlined above. And, I would have had to exactly break and bend the propellers in just the right direction and carefully embed the mud in the broken propeller shaft. Then I would have had to place the mud and grass clippings on top of the drone to prove it was upside down. And lastly, I would have to somehow deleted the onboard flight logs especially since I did not know they were supposed to be there in the first place.
So, to repeat myself for the 99th time, I saw the drone at about 200 feet coming down fast. I immediately applied power thinking this would slow the descent. It only increased the rate of descent. And as noted, the crash site was about 10 feet away from the take off point. I indeed considered trying to catch it for an instant but remembering the propellers coming down first, I quickly discounted this idea. So, I was close enough to the impact area to plainly see the drone hit flat on its top and bounce up about a foot or more. It settled back in the same spot meaning that it had to have hit flat and by hitting flat, it limited the damage and by hitting flat on its top, it dented the areas mentioned already.
Any further questions gentlemen? I will be more than happy to answer them. While you are thinking about this, consider this fact: It is almost, almost impossible for a Phantom to become upside down in normal flight, and I don't know of anyone on three forums who has been able to flip one into this position. If you can do it, please post your instructions here.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
If you two would read all my postings, I listed the weather conditions of that day and the previous day showing some 1.7 inches of rainfall which would make the ground somewhat soggy, if not soft. This is evidenced by the mud that was embedded in one of the propeller's hubs where the prop had broken. The mud, dirt and grass pieces can be seen in the video which is on the TOP of the Phantom 4. So, it would seem that this alone proves the crash was inverted. Also had it been other than that, the damage would have been more widespread around the drone. The landing struts would have been damaged and the camera torn off the mount considering the height of the fall. Also, the video clearly shows the dented gray area immediately above the gimbal mount where the camera and mount hit it. In fact it hit with such force that the dent was made by the camera moving past its limits. I could not by hand force the camera back into that position though the dent and the camera lined up perfectly.
Now, if you two are still with me, suppose I faked the crash? I would have to had a way of slamming the drone into the ground to produce the damaged outlined above. And, I would have had to exactly break and bend the propellers in just the right direction and carefully embed the mud in the broken propeller shaft. Then I would have had to place the mud and grass clippings on top of the drone to prove it was upside down. And lastly, I would have to somehow deleted the onboard flight logs especially since I did not know they were supposed to be there in the first place.
So, to repeat myself for the 99th time, I saw the drone at about 200 feet coming down fast. I immediately applied power thinking this would slow the descent. It only increased the rate of descent. And as noted, the crash site was about 10 feet away from the take off point. I indeed considered trying to catch it for an instant but remembering the propellers coming down first, I quickly discounted this idea. So, I was close enough to the impact area to plainly see the drone hit flat on its top and bounce up about a foot or more. It settled back in the same spot meaning that it had to have hit flat and by hitting flat, it limited the damage and by hitting flat on its top, it dented the areas mentioned already.
Any further questions gentlemen? I will be more than happy to answer them. While you are thinking about this, consider this fact: It is almost, almost impossible for a Phantom to become upside down in normal flight, and I don't know of anyone on three forums who has been able to flip one into this position. If you can do it, please post your instructions here.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Nope, according to the FAA there is no limit to altitude though they do recommend it to be 500 feet. This is if one is flying away from no fly zones. I live 4.5 miles from town and 10.5 miles from the nearest airport in a completely rural setting. If you know of a regulation stating the 400 foot limit, or any limit, please email it to me at [email protected].
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
I certainly was not accusing you of faking anything, but I have a hard time reconciling what you think you saw with the resulting damage. I agree that it landed upside down - that much seems clear. I cannot agree with the hypothesis of an inverted powered dive from 200 ft into that surface.
I'm also confused by your latest description of the event. In your original post you stated that "upon arriving at the crash site" you found the drone. You later mentioned then being surprised that it was not in pieces. Now you appear to be saying that it came down just 10 ft away - so close that you considered catching it. Those statements seem somewhat contradictory.
In any case, I'm not sure that I can help any further here. At least you have a replacement. Hopefully it won't happen again.
Did you lose a prop
Mine setting on ground. one of the props was not locked on
drone flipped upside down .
didn't hurt it as it was not airborne yet
Mine setting on ground. one of the props was not locked on
drone flipped upside down .
didn't hurt it as it was not airborne yet
Hey I'm not doubting you t all, just saying glad it's not a generic problem, I've been through enough of these Phantoms to know though rare some thing can go hay wire.
Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots
Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots
Correct me if I'm wrong, l thought I read somewhere that refurbished units serial numbers all ended with an "R"
Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Where do you get they recommend 500 feet? If you register your drone you must agree to fly below 400.
This page says you must fly safely, and lists the safety guidelines, which say under 400
Fly for Fun
P3A with Nvidia Shield K1 tablet
NSSDRONE, yes you are correct. I pulled my sheet and read it again and it did state 400 feet. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. However nowhere did I read that the FAA has a set limit on altitude if you are away from a no fly zone. If you have a link to a posting stating otherwise, please send it to me, or post it here.
Thanks again,
Jim
WA5TEF
sar104, Well if you were to read my post as it was written I believe you will find nothing that I was farther than 10 feet from the takeoff point and the crash site. I did indeed see the drone hit the ground, and bounce. I was truly amazed that it was still in one piece and not a pile of pieces. As far as your statement of "upon arriving at the crash site", I don't know of any other way to get there. As to the inverted power dive, I have no way to prove what I said since DJI "can't" find the onboard flight records. (Has anyone EVER heard of DJI not being to recover the flight records from the drone?) I think what I actually posted several times in answering other posts, was that I applied POWER NOT KNOWING IT WAS UPSIDE DOWN. I don't remember when I dropped the power but I am reasonably sure that it landed while at idle and not at full throttle. Again, I don't know this for sure but in reviewing my thoughts and actions that day, it would seem logical that I released the power stick when I realized it was inverted. I have no idea how high it was at that point nor do I know how fast it was going. I do know that I had only 2 or 3 seconds to react. Had DJI recovered the onboard flight records, they COULD HAVE reported it to me, but they either can't or don't. Either way, they have excluded the obvious claim that I submitted showing it was a Phantom 4 problem and not mine! And, another thing that has evolved out of my quest for the truth, this string of posts was started I believe, asking if anyone had a similar occurrence and/or if anyone knew how to invert a Phantom 4. From that it got away from the initial request and started into this claim/counter-claim that does nothing to discover the truth, only to question my postings. Therefore, I am going back to my original question, "Can anyone make a Phantom 4 fly inverted, or flip over?" I am tired of typing the same replies over and over so I will not answer any further prods as to my honesty or accuracy of my information. AND, another thing, please explain how I would have faked the crash? By slamming it on the ground, hard enough for the camera to dent the drone underbody??? I don't think so! Maybe hitting the camera and gimbal with a stick hard enough to dent the body?" I don't think so! How about me taking a hammer and chisel or some other device, and hammering the dent? I don't think so!
So, SAR.104 unless you can explain how this would have been faked, don't bother to post any further suggestions that I faked anything. The $239.00 I paid is of little significance to me but the truth that DJI is not revealing is.
Thanks,
Jim
SAR104, I think I have already posted my answer to you but in case you missed it, try this.. Duplicate the crash and its after effects including the camera dent into the underside of the body, as the last video clearly shows! How the heck could I have faked a crash like that? By slamming my perfectly good Phantom 4 into the ground (soft wet ground on leaves and grass), hard enough to move the camera gimbal enough to even touch the body of the drone. Try it with yours. You can't do it but you can see on the video the dent made by this. See my other posts (answers to accusations) for my exact explanation..
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Chris, wow, I don't see how I missed your post! So let me get this straight. You are saying that one can take a Phantom 4 up to altitude and somehow use only the control sticks, make the drone "flip"? I have asked and asked on this forum and others for anyone to supply me with this information. So, if you know how you can flip a Phantom 4, please post it here. If not, don't suggest that I know how, much less flip my own drone! Personally I can't see why anyone would take a $1,100 aircraft up and try anything that might cause damage! Maybe you have several to play around with but I only have this one and I am not about take any chances with it.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
GUESS WHAT! I found out from a drone pilot on this forum that one could simply PHONE DJI's number and ask for a manager or supervisor in the USA that could be connected to one! I called DJI's number and repeated what I was told and some 40 minutes on hold, I was talking with Mike (not posting last name yet), I explained my concerns and he reviewed my file where apparently he had a record of all my emails and phone calls. Anyway, he put me on hold again and then came back on the line and said he had requested the flight data information and that once he received it he would either call me or email me with the information he discovers. I was impressed by his concern over my situation. I will post what I find out possible tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF
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