Phantom 4 flipped over, flew powered into ground from 200 feet!

[wa5tef]

I certainly was not accusing you of faking anything, but I have a hard time reconciling what you think you saw with the resulting damage. I agree that it landed upside down - that much seems clear. I cannot agree with the hypothesis of an inverted powered dive from 200 ft into that surface.

I'm also confused by your latest description of the event. In your original post you stated that "upon arriving at the crash site" you found the drone. You later mentioned then being surprised that it was not in pieces. Now you appear to be saying that it came down just 10 ft away - so close that you considered catching it. Those statements seem somewhat contradictory.

In any case, I'm not sure that I can help any further here. At least you have a replacement. Hopefully it won't happen again.

SAR104*** I still resent your implication that I am not honest. Even though you stated it as if you knew I was as honest as Abe Lincoln I know what you meant. Let me assure you of some things: 1) I am a Christian 2) I am NOT a liar 3) I paid the repair bill in order to hurry the repairs, knowing that DJII would access the logs and see it was a warranty issue. 4) I started this posting many days ago seeking some answers, such as how a Phantom can flip and why the flight data logs were not recorded to my iPad and why DJI would not return phone calls or reply to emails. I have learned a lot about DJI but I failed to get any answers from you and your fellow posters, only accusations and doubt to my detailed descriptions. Therefore, I am going back to my original quest to learn why the noted events happened so unless SAR104 you have information that would help answer these questions, don't bother to question my honesty again!
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[Paul55]

These apps are somewhat helpful: B4UFLY and AIRMAP - They show the location and airspace classifications......just a thought....

 

[sar104]

SAR104*** I still resent your implication that I am not honest. Even though you stated it as if you knew I was as honest as Abe Lincoln I know what you meant. Let me assure you of some things: 1) I am a Christian 2) I am NOT a liar 3) I paid the repair bill in order to hurry the repairs, knowing that DJII would access the logs and see it was a warranty issue. 4) I started this posting many days ago seeking some answers, such as how a Phantom can flip and why the flight data logs were not recorded to my iPad and why DJI would not return phone calls or reply to emails. I have learned a lot about DJI but I failed to get any answers from you and your fellow posters, only accusations and doubt to my detailed descriptions. Therefore, I am going back to my original quest to learn why the noted events happened so unless SAR104 you have information that would help answer these questions, don't bother to question my honesty again!
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster. I specifically stated that I was not accusing you of faking anything, and that I was simply questioning your recollection of the events and some apparent inconsistencies.

Your increasingly strident and defensive responses are actually giving me even further diminished confidence in your credibility though, and I now have absolutely no interest in continuing to explore this event so you need have no worries there. I will no longer be watching this thread.

 

[wa5tef]

Yeah, sure! You won't miss a word on this postings. I don't and won't have to respond to anything further you post. I'll bet you stick around till today when Mike ??? informs me of what the onboard flight logs show. Then maybe it will all come together in language you can understand. Have a good life.
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[wa5tef]

NSSDRONE, yes you are correct. I pulled my sheet and read it again and it did state 400 feet. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. However nowhere did I read that the FAA has a set limit on altitude if you are away from a no fly zone. If you have a link to a posting stating otherwise, please send it to me, or post it here.
Thanks again,
Jim
WA5TEF

Wow, yes! You are correct again. I was looking in the wrong place. I Googled FAA 107 and got a link referenced by that site which was a third party drone assist registration site. I went back to the FAA site and did find the 400 foot limit. Guess I'll have to adjust my altitude limit, though my altitude readings are usually off by 15 to 20 feet. Thanks for setting me straight before I got in trouble!

Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[normr]

I shipped mine back in the original case, and got it back.

When I sent mine back in the original box and the styrofoam case, they only sent mine back in the styrofoam case, they didn't return my box which pissed me off and I had to ask them to send it too me, but the must have trashed the box and had to send me one with no serial numbers at all


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[wa5tef]

GUESS WHAT AGAIN!!! That person, named Marquez lied to me and did not email me the data he said he would. AND, I tried to reach him three times, each time after having to listen to their "'music" on hold for a total 73 minutes, was cutoff each of the three times. I really thought that I had found a reliable DJI employee but again I was proved wrong. So, I submitted a complaint via email on their own website explaining my questions and lack of answers. I doubt anyone will reply but at least I tried. If they reply, I'll advise here.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[AlecW]

When I sent mine back in the original box and the styrofoam case, they only sent mine back in the styrofoam case, they didn't return my box which pissed me off and I had to ask them to send it too me, but the must have trashed the box and had to send me one with no serial numbers at all

Wow, that's awful, they threw away the cardboard box your drone came in. Mine hit the trash a few days after I opened it like every other product I buy or I'd have 1000s of old cardboard boxes stored. Do you have some type of database to track where all your boxes are?

 

[MGS9500]

This thread is starting to read like a bad novel. Fun to read but time to wrap it up..

 

[jtludwig]

This thread is starting to read like a bad novel. Fun to read but time to wrap it up..

Agreed. The OP just sounds like someone who likes to rant and complain about everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[normr]

Wow, that's awful, they threw away the cardboard box your drone came in. Mine hit the trash a few days after I opened it like every other product I buy or I'd have 1000s of old cardboard boxes stored. Do you have some type of database to track where all your boxes are?

Yes, since I frequently sell my old equipment for a new model then I like to keep the box to have when I resell it.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[wa5tef]

Yeah, all of you were thinking "yeah right"! I did not hear from 'Marquez' as he did not bother to return my call. I called him 3 times, each time asking for a supervisor in the USA. I was supposedly transferred to his section and all three times, I was disconnected! I have given up on DJI. They cannot be BELIEVED IN ANYTHING THEY SAY WHEN IT PERTAINS TO CUSTOMER SERVICE!
Should I do anything further on this, I'll report back in.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[RudyF]

If a phantom flips, I don't think it will easily right itself. I tipped a telephone wire at about 15 feet and it did not recover. Hit the ground, broke gimbal in 3 pieces, seam between upper and lower she'll separated, landing legs bent. I could not quickly shut off the motors via CSC where they continued to spin upside down grinding the hub tips flat.

3 years ago I flew my Phantom 1 into a tree in a difficult landing situation where it was facing me and I overreacted (since then I always turn it around first to make sure right is right). It was about 15-20 feet up, flipped after contact with the branches and on the way down righted itself and powered up so the fall was much halted and I could fly it again immediately afterwards. You can see the move here:

. I'm sure this will be a feature of the newer Phantoms as well (I'm now on a 3A). So my guess is that it was an internal sensor or connection/mainboard glitch but I am also surprised of no damage after 200ft powered fall

 

[wa5tef]

Rudy, thanks for your reply and nice video and music also! Yep, I was descending from about 400 feet when all of a sudden it started "falling" fast. I reacted by giving it full throttle "up" but not knowing it was inverted, only made it go faster. I think I realized it was upside down in time to release the throttle but it hit the relative soft ground. It did break all four props and bent the top shell and damaged the gimbal mount. In fact, I installed four new props and my other battery and flew it almost immediately after I cleaned out the mud and grass from around the motor housings.

I submitted my case to DJI and just this morning, I may have gotten a favorable reply. I went ahead and paid for the "repairs" in order to get my drone back quickly but instead, they sent me a brand new one, albeit was missing the four retainer springs that keep the props tight. I have yet to receive an explanation of the crash from DJI though many have replied that it was all but impossible to cause a Phantom to fly inverted due to the built in stability of the craft. I'll post more about the crash is DJI lets me know anything further.

Keep up the videoing. That sure was beautiful area where you made that video.
Thanks for posting,
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[silver_surfer]

Well all said and done I would love to have an explanation from DJI and hopefully a software update because if one bird did it there is a chance another bird could do it too , remember the problem with the the "sudden drop in altitude when you suddenly stopped after flying at high speed" problem they had a while back , I almost crashed into the local lake because of that nonsense , I am sure the repair bill is something that can be argued about later but what if this problem happens again and it lands on a kid !!

( luckliy if that happens here in South Africa where we are much more under the control of the local aviation authority there would probably be an investigation and DJI would have to grease a few palms to keep selling their product here )

 

[Hazen Ducey]

OK, here is the full story. I planned on a short flight to get a photo of my house. I flew straight up to 419 feet, turned off the video recording in order to make a still shot, then started a descent. I did not turn on the video again since I intended to land. While descending at about 200 to 250 feet, the Phantom suddenly flipped over perfectly upside down and accelerated towards the ground. I noticed the rapid fall and quickly applied full power to stop the fall, not realizing the drone was upside down. Of course, this only added more speed to the fall. The drone smacked the ground flat on its top and propellers and bounced. When I got to it, I expected to find a pile of rubble but there it lay, all lights on, strobes blinking and the battery still intact showing 3 green LED's and one blinking. All four props were broken and the top shell had damage on two of the motor arms. I photographed the site and videoed it for reference then took the drone inside, cleaned it up, replaced the propellers and inserted a different battery. It powered up immediately, giving me a gimble motor bind or something like that. The Phantom's camera worked fine and I made a photo inside the house with it. I then decided to try it out, took it back outside and turned on the iPhone video camera to record the startup. The drone fired up normally, sitting there idling. I applied a little power to raise it to about three feet and tested the left stick controls, worked fine. I flew it to about ten feet and tested the right stick controls and again all worked fine. I believe I then landed and inspected everything noticing the gimbal mount was binding. I flew it a couple more times for short flights only. I then went back inside and calibrated the gimbal mount and got it to working part of the time but it was still binding when going from level to vertical down. I contacted DJI and got authorization to send it for repair. It reached DJI Monday of this week and was repaired and returned yesterday!!!!! Total cost was $239.00. I was impressed at the speed of repair however I requested many times and through many different channels for someone to explain how this crash happened. My flight data logs on my iPad mysteriously stopped recording on November 27th and started back January 19th but the crash was January 21 and the flight was not recorded. I have gotten on DJI's forum and asked for information about this situation and what happened to the flight logs and no one has any answers. I am still waiting on DJI to "get back to me" with their side of what happened but I know for sure that it was not pilot error for I was doing nothing but descending. The drone did not hit anything unless it was a bird and the weather was fine. It was 69.9 degrees, winds out of the SSE at 3 MPH. I did not record the barometric pressure but I do have that data on my weather station if needed but there were no weather systems approaching so I assume the pressure was fairly stable.

I expect my Phantom to be here Thursday and I will indeed carefully check it out at low altitude before I am reasonable comfortable with it again. I do hope DJI will give me their version of the crash but I have already guessed it will be pilot error, since I paid the bill without question. My question to the group is: What caused a perfectly healthy Phantom 4 to suddenly do a perfect flip to the upside down position unless something internal malfunctioned? Can anyone make their drone flip over to that position??? Nope I think not, not that anyone would try but any drone flyer knows that they are inherently stable and should recover from most any flip over at altitude if nothing went wrong. On one occasion, I foolishly hoovered my drone about five feet to test its "lifting power" by tugging on one of the landing struts. It resisted the pull and fought to keep its condition upright. I did feel the strength of the motors and the power of the drone to right itself if tilted. So, what else could have caused this crash?

I appreciate anyone's questions as I struggle to find out the cause before I attempt to fly it again.
Thanks a bunch!
Jim
WA5TEF

Hello,,,I have had the exact same thing happen to a P2V+. The only difference was it would start to shake, then do the barrel roll over and head for the ground, props still running....When it happened to me I was out in the middle of the country side,,,no nothing around, maybe cows..haha. There was no reason for this to happen to me and was the last one I've owned,,last year. It did this twice to me,,the first time it was out over a river, but I noticed it getting unstable and got it heading back full throttle,,got lucky that time..However the last time it literly flew itself into the field..Only damage was a couple props and the cam was not working..This one fell from about 50ft only. I also was able to pop on a couple props and start her up and hover,,immed after the malfunction..This was NOT pilot error. I had time to try everything possible including powering out of it, switching to ATTI mode, and even manual,,by that time(secs) it was heading for it's buriel. I am looking at getting another one this year, but your post scares the HELL out of me..I do not want to go through the same crap as with the P2v+.. I can accept a human error,,but can't afford a DJI error.! IF they send back the same unit to you I would sell it..Myself I could not trust it again..
VE9HLD

 

[Imabiggles]

To OP -Wa5tef - I understand your frustration. Consider:
1. If you own a UAS, there is a very good chance you will crash your UAS at some time. It is very hard to find folks in this hobby longer than a couple of years that dont have a crash or two or dozen under their belt.
2. You opt'd to pay for repair, they didnt force that upon you.
3. You threaten legal suits - once you do that, any non-adversarial relationship you still expect to have with them is in jeopardy and its an unrealistic expectation.
4. According to terms and agreement, they can do what they want with the returned drone (replace or repair).
5. The VAST majority of crashes are caused by human errors or environmental obstructions. Accept that it is likely you screwed up, even if you cant figure out how.
6. Lastly - this is hobby that is supposed to give you enjoyment, unless you also like litigation, arguments, demands, etc - relax, pay your couple of hundred bucks, go fly the replacement and dont sweat it when you crash it next time.

 

[silver_surfer]

5. The VAST majority of crashes are caused by human errors or environmental obstructions. Accept that it is likely you screwed up, even if you cant figure out how.

mmmmh you seem to be forgetting something , this type of drone is not supposed to be able to go upside down , even if you try and do it ... so accept that he screwed up ?! do you work for the PR department of DJI ? because it sure looks like it

 

[wa5tef]

To OP -Wa5tef - I understand your frustration. Consider:
1. If you own a UAS, there is a very good chance you will crash your UAS at some time. It is very hard to find folks in this hobby longer than a couple of years that dont have a crash or two or dozen under their belt.
2. You opt'd to pay for repair, they didnt force that upon you.
3. You threaten legal suits - once you do that, any non-adversarial relationship you still expect to have with them is in jeopardy and its an unrealistic expectation.
4. According to terms and agreement, they can do what they want with the returned drone (replace or repair).
5. The VAST majority of crashes are caused by human errors or environmental obstructions. Accept that it is likely you screwed up, even if you cant figure out how.
6. Lastly - this is hobby that is supposed to give you enjoyment, unless you also like litigation, arguments, demands, etc - relax, pay your couple of hundred bucks, go fly the replacement and dont sweat it when you crash it next time.

Imabiggles, well it seems that my "proof" that I submitted to DJI a few days ago has paid off. They had already closed my case but my revelation of the video I made that shows the dent caused by the camera hitting the bottom of the drone may have convinced them to look at the crash again. I sent a reply to them this morning for some additional information so maybe I have proved my case and perhaps saved someone else from having the same thing happen to them.
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[WBN3]

Jim,

I empathize with your struggles... we had a less-than-pleasant experience with DJI customer service ourselves. However, as others here have advised, I would recommend re-evaluating your assumptions and expectations when dealing with this particular situation. You've shared your age and background, and I respect your attempt at being honest here. Some of the snide comments are folks trying to show off their knowledge, others are just people baiting you to post your account of the incident yet again (commonly referred to as "trolls" in internet lingo).

I haven't watched the videos you posted, but I have read through this entire thread in one sitting (all 199 entries!). You strike me as a guy who is accustomed to the traditional American work ethic and values... you live in the Bible Belt, you're probably a Ford or Chevy guy, you enjoy your pastimes and don't like the idea of someone in a foreign country (especially a communist one) having so much power over something you enjoy. You've boldly ventured into a realm populated by folks 20-40 years your junior... you'd like to be a "high tech redneck" but there are certain aspects of this that you're still struggling with.

The first area is just technology in general. You're operating in a gray area, where you know "just enough to be dangerous"... you've kept up with iPhones and iPads, and you may even have a laptop instead of a desktop computer. However, the language you use and your self-admitted limitations put you in a position of dependency and defensiveness. Youngsters on the internet, as well as in customer service, will pick up on this like sharks smelling blood in the water. They will take advantage of it.

Another one is the concept of ownership... while you "owned" the Phantom 4 that you sent in for evaluation and repair, the definition DJI applies to that word is different than yours (maybe because they're commies!). As was mentioned, they see the drones as fungible resources, rather that specific personal property. If they provide you with a functionality, then it doesn't matter that the parts and pieces are different than what you sent in to them.

The third is the concept of accountability. DJI should honor your requests and treat you with some level of respect, because you hold them accountable for the performance of the aircraft within the published operating guidelines. However, they're running a business and don't do it like mom and pop shops from the 1950's. The less time they spend dealing with your problems, the better for their bottom line. It's a sad fact, but not unique to DJI or foreign companies. I'm sure you've had bad experiences with other companies, and wrote them off and chose not to do business with them again. In this case, it will infringe on your ability to enjoy your hobby that you invested $1200 into (before the repair).

You will just have to decide what you're willing to accept. You have repeatedly posted something to the effect of "I've finally gotten through to them" which was followed sometime later by "well they were just lying to me". I would really recommend you quit trying to get answers... you probably wouldn't accept anything they say as truthful now. It (like our own experience) will remain a mystery and you'll just have to accept that there is a risk of losing your aircraft if you fly again. As was posted, there are few who have been participating in the R/C hobby that haven't crashed eventually.

Sorry for the long-winded psycho-babble... hope you are able to fly and enjoy your refurbished P4 for a long time to come.