Phantom 4 CRASH PLEASE HELP!!!

[pete923]

First off, I know about FAA rules, have registered, etc. I consider myself proficient and safe. I am normally extremely conservative. Based on this one flight, I realize that I seem incompetent and crazy. Listen to this if you want to.

I finally powered up the phantom today. Very nervous. Fortunately, it worked perfectly. The video feed looked great (except for the fact that all i saw was the inside of there gimbal ). I revved up the motors, and they seemed to spin fine. I have never started the motors without props on, so I don't know if they are supposed to sound how they did. I couldn't post the video I took. (Let me know if I can do that)

AS to the GEO thing- Ive done a lot of research. The aircraft has constant no fly zones (airports, etc.) set in their drones from the time of shipment. The GEO technology is what sends the drones information about temporary no fly zones (VIP movement, etc.)

Now for the intriguing part: I took it to the same flying location because I wanted to see how it would react. The aircraft warmed up, and I got the same "Cannot take off" warning that I had before the fateful flight. This rules out for sure the obama theory, as he is long gone. I found that there is a setting to turn off GEO, which I did. The status now read "safe to fly, GPS" The aircraft clearly thinks that there was and still is a temporary no fly zone in my area. There is clearly no NFZ on DJI's GEO map.

Does anyone have any more input as to why this could be? Thanks for your help. Sorry for the radio silence.

 

[pete923]

If the camera mount is damaged I understand that the replacement is the whole gimbal/camera and electronics and it costs 399 from DJI. I am in the process of doing a DIY repair after a drone crash into a tree and I can attest that it is not something that you want to do unless you have the skills and the tools. I am replacing the shell top and bottom and the legs as a result of the crash. I am replacing the power board as a result of my lack of DIY tools and skills. God willing it will fly this weekend. In the meantime I decided to buy a refurbished unit which arrives Monday. Hopefully will have two to fly by then.

Is it hard to repair the shell, or just the entire gimbal setup. Thanks.

 

[pete923]

@JB63 @captainmilehigh @AlecW @F3honda4me @fberna @With The Birds

 

[F3honda4me]

I'd say contact DJI as it's definitely not working correctly!

First off, I know about FAA rules, have registered, etc. I consider myself proficient and safe. I am normally extremely conservative. Based on this one flight, I realize that I seem incompetent and crazy. Listen to this if you want to.

I finally powered up the phantom today. Very nervous. Fortunately, it worked perfectly. The video feed looked great (except for the fact that all i saw was the inside of there gimbal ). I revved up the motors, and they seemed to spin fine. I have never started the motors without props on, so I don't know if they are supposed to sound how they did. I couldn't post the video I took. (Let me know if I can do that)

AS to the GEO thing- Ive done a lot of research. The aircraft has constant no fly zones (airports, etc.) set in their drones from the time of shipment. The GEO technology is what sends the drones information about temporary no fly zones (VIP movement, etc.)

Now for the intriguing part: I took it to the same flying location because I wanted to see how it would react. The aircraft warmed up, and I got the same "Cannot take off" warning that I had before the fateful flight. This rules out for sure the obama theory, as he is long gone. I found that there is a setting to turn off GEO, which I did. The status now read "safe to fly, GPS" The aircraft clearly thinks that there was and still is a temporary no fly zone in my area. There is clearly no NFZ on DJI's GEO map.

Does anyone have any more input as to why this could be? Thanks for your help. Sorry for the radio silence.

 

[pete923]

I'd say contact DJI as it's definitely not working correctly!

I will for sure!

 

[captainmilehigh]

I will for sure!

I'd have to agree too. Get with DJI and get it back to 100% trouble free flying. They have the tools and expertise to fix it.....or replace it.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[AlecW]

I sort of suspect it maybe something funky with the TFR from the get go. The Obama thing threw me but you really are not that close to Chicago. It could be that however and maybe DJI just leave them active for too long. Despite what one guy keeps saying there must be something in GO that updates this data via Wi-Fi. Have you had your device connected to the internet since this happened?

It seems like you were on the edge of this zone, if you move 50 feet west or south do you still get the do not fly warning etc.?

I'd still start off nice with support but I would force them tell you exactly what the TRF is or replace the bird if they can't.

 

[fberna]

I really do not want to get into any argument, hope this is crystal clear.

The file containing the NFZ data is in the drone. Any amendment of such data -either for a new or temporary area- can only be implemented when there is an update. In this case DJI GO only does the communication part, but the information is in the drone.
That's why even if you use other software for driving the drone -Litchi, Altizure, etc- it cannot bypass the geofencing system. Which is annoying, because when DJI unlock a red zone you can just fly it manually but not with other mapping software.

I am using my drone for commercial purposes, I needed to get it unlocked in some "red" airport areas and I have dealt with DJI in order to do so. They have been very helpful and fast in solving my problem and in explaining to quite an extent how the system works.

As I wrote above, the geofencing system can be bypassed. There are two easy way and another more complex one, which is hacking the drone and edit the file containing the goefencing information.

Pete923 still get a message about a NFZ in a zone in between two airports but clear from each of them. Additionally while getting the message stating he is in a no fly zone, the drone was able to take off, which should never happen.
So the doubt about something being wrong with its drone is a plain certitude.

 

[JB63]

... The file containing the NFZ data is in the drone ...

This is very valuable information. Thank you for sharing.
If what you say is true (and I'm not challenging any of it), how does the bird know of TFRs (Temporary Flight Restrictions)? Does this mean I need to connect my bird to the web before every fight and update the NFZ information?... If the bird does not know about those TFRs, then there is a chance that, any of us could be breaking the law at any time, and not knowing it. I was hoping that such TFRs could be broadcast on some frequency that the bird somehow picks up and decodes (same as some weather/traffic information). This also reminds me of the many 'disclaimers' on the DJI website that their NFZs are only informational and that it is up to the user to check the actual NFZs before every flight. Fine, I can add that to my list of things to check before flight procedure but, where on the DJI site is such information posted? I flew my bird few times in a school field across the street (school is in my sub-division so, technically a good chunk of my property taxes goes to the school) but I checked few days ago, and it happens that the school buildings are a NFZ as well ...

Ultimately this goes to say that there is a lot one needs to do/read/understand before first powering the bird. And yet, none of this is fully presented in any of the DJI documentation I've seen.

 

[fberna]

This is very valuable information. Thank you for sharing.
If what you say is true (and I'm not challenging any of it), how does the bird know of TFRs (Temporary Flight Restrictions)? Does this mean I need to connect my bird to the web before every fight and update the NFZ information?... If the bird does not know about those TFRs, then there is a chance that, any of us could be breaking the law at any time, and not knowing it. I was hoping that such TFRs could be broadcast on some frequency that the bird somehow picks up and decodes (same as some weather/traffic information). This also reminds me of the many 'disclaimers' on the DJI website that their NFZs are only informational and that it is up to the user to check the actual NFZs before every flight. Fine, I can add that to my list of things to check before flight procedure but, where on the DJI site is such information posted? I flew my bird few times in a school field across the street (school is in my sub-division so, technically a good chunk of my property taxes goes to the school) but I checked few days ago, and it happens that the school buildings are a NFZ as well ...

Ultimately this goes to say that there is a lot one needs to do/read/understand before first powering the bird. And yet, none of this is fully presented in any of the DJI documentation I've seen.

DJI is not and cannot be responsible for what anyone does with a drone. They set up this all geofencing circus in order to protect their butt from any legal action when -there is no if, just a matter of time- something goes very wrong. Either an accident or a deliberate act.

Common sense could have been enough, if common sense would be as common as beer and pizza. It is not.

DJI publish a map of geofenced areas www.dji.com/flisafe/geo-system/unlock

You need to register for accessing it. On the other hand this is just information about what they consider no flight zone, without any legal value. My office is very close to an airport which is a no fly zone for drones according to our civil aircraft authority but is not in the DJI map/geofencing areas.

No flight zone are issued form aviation regulatory board of each country. You should check the NOTAM of the area you intend to fly in.
Straightforward for pilots or those familiar with aviation. Much less for those who are not.

 

[JB63]

DJI is not and cannot be responsible for what anyone does with a drone. They set up this all geofencing circus in order to protect their butt from any legal action when -there is no if, just a matter of time- something goes very wrong. Either an accident or a deliberate act.

Common sense could have been enough, if common sense would be as common as beer and pizza. It is not.

DJI publish a map of geofenced areas www.dji.com/flisafe/geo-system/unlock

You need to register for accessing it. On the other hand this is just information about what they consider no flight zone, without any legal value. My office is very close to an airport which is a no fly zone for drones according to our civil aircraft authority but is not in the DJI map/geofencing areas.

No flight zone are issued form aviation regulatory board of each country. You should check the NOTAM of the area you intend to fly in.
Straightforward for pilots or those familiar with aviation. Much less for those who are not.

Again, my point is not to put the blame fully/wholly on DJI. But, for sure they do have a responsibility not to guarantee that the customer abides by the law ... but instead that the customer is informed/aware of the implications/responsibilities of flying one of their birds. Like any modern company, they have lawyers working for them, to ensure the company's survival and protection against frivolous liability lawsuits. I get all of that.

My point is, while some information is on their website, there are no pointers/indications in their manuals (whatever came with the drone you bought) as to the various regulations/traps out there that one must be cognisant of. Yes, you and I and every responsible adult out there should know better and act accordingly, but many people have bought these expensive toys for their teenage kids who, I guarantee you, have no clue what the FAA is, does, or the reasoning behind the NFZs. I know, because some of my teenage son's classmates received DJI drones over christmas.

Apologies to the OP for digressing, but this situation was bound to happen sooner than later, especially that this bird species is now a common sighting in our skies.

 

[AlecW]

fberna, Do you think the info on DJI's site is wrong?

 

[F3honda4me]

I really do not want to get into any argument, hope this is crystal clear.

The file containing the NFZ data is in the drone. Any amendment of such data -either for a new or temporary area- can only be implemented when there is an update. In this case DJI GO only does the communication part, but the information is in the drone.

No one ever disagreed. The question that was asked is how does GEO use TFRs since it very clearly does work real time. So you didn't really answer the question.

It was explained to me that the TFRs are via the GO app when connected to internet. The app will send commands to the bird based on TFRs. In other words, no data is changed on the bird. But if you are in a temp no fly zone the GO app will send commands such as will not take off or forced landing etc.

 

[F3honda4me]

View attachment 73474 fberna, Do you think the info on DJI's site is wrong?

DJI site is correct, I just don't think he understood how the temporary NFZs worked.

 

[fberna]

No one ever disagreed. The question that was asked is how does GEO use TFRs since it very clearly does work real time. So you didn't really answer the question.

It was explained to me that the TFRs are via the GO app when connected to internet. The app will send commands to the bird based on TFRs. In other words, no data is changed on the bird. But if you are in a temp no fly zone the GO app will send commands such as will not take off or forced landing etc.

Thanks for the info.

You actually know more and better than the DJI folks who explained to me how the their system work, stating clearly that there are NO TFR loaded on the fly through DJI GO.

BTW, this would make the TFR system totally useless, as you can fly your drone with a wide range of other apps -Litchi, Altizure, Pilot Map and many other- without even starting DJI GO.

That's why, according to the DJI guy I was talking to for unlocking my airport red zone, the data is staying in the drone, so that any other software -which can "talk" to the drone via DJI API/sdk- must read the file and cannot get you in the air while inside a NFZ.

Apps which cannot use the unlock system, so when DJI unlock a red zone you are not able to use any mapping software to command the drone.

If ever I have to get in touch with them again I let them know where they can learn something about their system

 

[pete923]

Tried to start an online chat with DJI, but got a notification saying it was unavailable. Is this just because its the weekend?

 

[AlecW]

I think you are wrong. TFRs are regularly updated via GO (per DJI's web site). It's simple, GO checks the internet for app and TRF updates whenever it has access. Next time you connect to the bird it updates the data on the bird thus all apps using the API have access.

Why is this concept so hard to grasp?

 

[fberna]

I think you are wrong. TFRs are regularly updated via GO (per DJI's web site). It's simple, GO checks the internet for app and TRF updates whenever it has access. Next time you connect to the bird it updates the data on the bird thus all apps using the API have access.

Why is this concept so hard to grasp?

Couldn't be any clearer to me. No update no geofencing file amendment. And the geofencing database fail resides in the drone, not in the app.

 

[AlecW]

Why do you keep saying that when it's explained on the DJI website. Are they wrong?

At app is just used a conduit to pass the data over.

 

[fberna]

Why do you keep saying that when it's explained on the DJI website. Are they wrong?

At app is just used a conduit to pass the data over.

I have been saying that from the very beginning, but others argue that it is done in a transparent mode, while flying, without update, which according to DJI is not happening.

Anyway, the point here is that the drone of the OP went down because of a malfunction, no doubt. So I hope he can have it replaced and be back on the air soon.